Cycles at Stations: Red Rear Light Safety Risk?

[z444z]

The point is that a red signal and a red hand lamp mean danger. Under normal circumstances a driver will know to expect a red, having followed the normal sequence, but if the line is suddenly obstructed they may receive an out of sequence red and will have to apply the emergency brake. In that instance it's no difference to being shown a red hand lamp. Both still mean danger.

What if a red signal is expected, and when the red hand lamp comes into view it’s assumed to be the red signal and so the driver enters the platform as normal, or at least doesn’t apply the emergency brake until later than they would have if the emergency stop signal was something unambiguous? Is that not a risk?

 

[Sakuradori]

What if a red signal is expected, and when the red hand lamp comes into view it’s assumed to be the red signal and so the driver enters the platform as normal, or at least doesn’t apply the emergency brake until later than they would have if the emergency stop signal was something unambiguous? Is that not a risk?

Considering that they have to know the exact locations of signals, one would hope the driver doesn't just assume that the signal has grown legs and walked down the platform

 

[z444z]

Considering that they have to know the exact locations of signals, one would hope the driver doesn't just assume that the signal has grown legs and walked down the platform

Train drivers make stupid errors all the time. Assuming errors will not happen is not how safety is maintained or improved.

 

[Sakuradori]

Train drivers make stupid errors all the time. Assuming errors will not happen is not how safety is maintained or improved.

As others have already mentioned, adding complexity isn't how safety is maintained or improved either, especially if the "issue" isn't even an issue.

 

[Russel]

Wait, red as a colour is internationally known as a symbol to stop, are we really suggesting changing it to accommodate cyclists?

 

[duffield]

On a tangential topic:
Some years ago I was rostered to work a heritage signalbox. It was a hilly 18 miles from where I was staying, and in torrential Atlantic weather. I got to the station, showered and changed out of my wet cycling clothes into uniform appropriate for a heritage signalman, except… the only coat I had was cycling dayglo yellow. ‘No way’ said the Station Manager ‘can you wear that while performing your duties on the platform’ (collecting/issuing tokens etc).
So I had to get soaked through each time I left the box.
Since then I have bought an orange cycling coat, but it’s worn out now, and no one seems to sell GoreTex in hi-vis orange any more.

I'm sure I've seen green ones around recently.

Wait, red as a colour is internationally known as a symbol to stop, are we really suggesting changing it to accommodate cyclists?

It's a totally absurd suggestion, it will not happen, and I'm pretty sure its advocates know that full well, but are enjoying winding everyone else up by pursuing it doggedly. I took the bait earlier but that's it for me!

 

[GusB]

What if a red signal is expected, and when the red hand lamp comes into view it’s assumed to be the red signal and so the driver enters the platform as normal, or at least doesn’t apply the emergency brake until later than they would have if the emergency stop signal was something unambiguous? Is that not a risk?

As others have explained, drivers know where signals are. An unexpected red signal, fixed or otherwise, will result in an emergency brake application. A red light is totally unambiguous.

Perhaps you should consider covering the lights on your mobility scooter when asked, rather than asking for the whole system to be re-invented.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

When my kids were young there was a fashion for trainers to have red lights in them which flashed every time they put a foot down.
This was long before our railway reopened so we were never on station platforms, but these kids shoes were common, did they ever cause a problem to railway staff?

 

[JamesT]

Since then I have bought an orange cycling coat, but it’s worn out now, and no one seems to sell GoreTex in hi-vis orange any more.

There are still a few doing orange as well as yellow:

Nightrider Men's Cycling Reflective & Waterproof Jacket | Proviz – Proviz

Buy the Nightrider Men's Cycling Reflective & Waterproof Jacket at Proviz. FREE Delivery & Easy Returns.

provizsports.com

Nightvision Storm Men's Waterproof Jacket

Altura technical cycling apparel. Whenever you ride and whatever the weather Altura is made to keep you comfortable, visible and performing at your best.

www.altura.co.uk

Though perhaps they don’t stock them in physical stores.

 

[z444z]

Perhaps you should consider covering the lights on your mobility scooter when asked

Any suggestions on how I’m supposed to do that?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Any suggestions on how I’m supposed to do that?

It shouldn't be impossible to rig up some kind of flap that you can control from the front, or maybe - and this would be much better - have an electrician fit a switch that can turn the rear light on and off as required.

 

[bikesntrains77]

Since I was made aware of this by station staff I now always turn off my bike lights on entering a station ... it also helps stop my batteries going flat!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Perhaps the biggest lesson from all this discussion is that there really ought to be some rule mandating that all cycles/mobility scooters/whatever must have some means to immediately turn off their lights when required. It does seem like really stupid cost-cutting for manufacturers to make bikes where it's impossible to turn off the lights (other than by waiting several minutes for example, for a capacitor to discharge).

 

[z444z]

Perhaps the biggest lesson from all this discussion is that there really ought to be some rule mandating that all cycles/mobility scooters/whatever must have some means to immediately turn off their lights when required. It does seem like really stupid cost-cutting for manufacturers to make bikes where it's impossible to turn off the lights (other than by waiting several minutes for example, for a capacitor to discharge).

Agreed, it’s silly, however I can imagine in the case of brake lights the argument that it could be dangerous if you forget to turn them back on. But unless it has always-on lights (which most don’t) that’s not really a valid argument anyway.

 

[Krokodil]

Any suggestions on how I’m supposed to do that?

Would I be right in thinking that the rear lights on mobility scooters are usually mounted quite close to the ground?

In which case they don't present quite the same issues as a bike lamp would, which could more easily be confused for a handlamp.

 

[rmHawk765]

Oh, and dont travel between Drayton Park and Moorgate with your cycle - it isn't allowed.

Is that the only NR example?

 

[z444z]

Would I be right in thinking that the rear lights on mobility scooters are usually mounted quite close to the ground?

Generally yes. Doesn’t stop staff chasing me halfway across the station to mumble something about red lights. Not once have I had a member of staff clearly articulate what the problem actually was, though I know anyway and do make an effort not to activate the lights in a position where they’d be visible to a driver.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Would I be right in thinking that the rear lights on mobility scooters are usually mounted quite close to the ground?

In which case they don't present quite the same issues as a bike lamp would, which could more easily be confused for a handlamp.

Is that going to make much difference, bearing mind that the most likely place a driver is going to see a mobility scooter is on a station platform, which is therefore already raised above ground level? So a driver approaching and seeing it in the distance at night (so at the point where you can see the light but possibly not the platform) is presumably still going to see a red light some way above the ground, just not as far above ground as a bike light would be.

 

[sharpener]

No. Having purple lamps is a silly idea.

Purple lights are (?uniquely?) used with green/white cones, to denote a Works Entrance/Exit in a line of cones at road works on major roads and motorways.

Yet another signal to get confused with, and some far-fetched chain of events to cause an obscure accident.

 

[Sakuradori]

I think purple lights are used on the Underground for tripcock testers, on platforms with white tiling.

 

[Cantab26]

I was at Birmingham New Street last night and saw a couple of the little ride-on mop things pootling about.

They have white headlights and red tail lights fitted, the latter fairly close to the ground.

The mop on the platform had its rear reds switched off. The one on the concourse had them switched on.

 

[Oldandslow]

Perhaps the biggest lesson from all this discussion is that there really ought to be some rule mandating that all cycles/mobility scooters/whatever must have some means to immediately turn off their lights when required. It does seem like really stupid cost-cutting for manufacturers to make bikes where it's impossible to turn off the lights (other than by waiting several minutes for example, for a capacitor to discharge).

In fairness to cyclists, do recognise that road-related rules are moving in the opposite direction. So I think the rail industry should be talking to the cycle industry, as individual cyclists have limited influence. Essentially here we are considering two types of lighting - battery including rechargeable, and dynamo/generator powered. For the latter, we're driven by German regulations, mostly because no-one makes these things for a single national market, and the German rules are strongest. They require dynamo lights to stay on for several minutes, because of stopping at traffic lights etc. Some of the more common dynamos on rail platforms will be attached to some models of Brompton folding cycle, which are of course popular among commuters. For the above reason, standard Brompton rear dynamo lights don't have off switches, and I've had to replace mine with one of the few models that does. I'm considering messaging Brompton after reading this helpful thread, but somehow I think they might be more likely to listen to ATOC or some other industry body

Regarding battery-powered, it's much simpler, and the problem is probably that modern rechargeable models last so long that cyclists are tempted not to bother turning them off until they put their bikes away at home. But talk of forcing bikes to be sold with lights could maybe turn into suggestions of making those always on too, at least while and soon after the bike is moving.

This thread has been really helpful though. The occasional discussions I've seen of this little-known issue have tended to point out perceived differences in the approaches of train operating companies, and other things, as indications that the problem is largely imaginary. The stories here from train drivers' real experiences rather contradict that idea.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2026 ==

Is that the only NR example?

No. First of all, the rules generally are that folding bikes are allowed at any time and on pretty much anything mentioned in this post, but non-folding bikes are only allowed outside rush hour, and/or against the flow. That may apply only near the relevant city (for example, Stevenage is the limit point on trains north from Kings Cross/St Pancras). Some TOCs only allow limited numbers of (non-folding) bikes, inter-city trains often require pre-booking, and it's generally pretty complicated to figure out if you're going somewhere new. Given that you want to know before you get to the station, some TOCs are pretty unclear about their rules. For example, you can go to Ipswich on a stopper off-peak without booking, but the distinction between train types isn't mentioned explicitly on time tables etc, which emphasise the need to book, or wasn't last time I looked. Underground lines generally don't allow bikes, but the Elizabeth line does and so I believe do the District and Circle. In my experience, you'd be mad to try on any Underground line even with a folder in rush hour, whatever the rules say (and I'd have to look them up).

There are far more threads in cycling forums trying to work out whether and how to get from Stoke to Worcester with a bike than there are about lights on platforms, to get back on topic

 

[Straus]

How do the drivers through Southampton Central manage with the adjacent road traffic lights?

 

[Kite159]

How do the drivers through Southampton Central manage with the adjacent road traffic lights?

Because they know they are there

 

[andy33gmail]

In the Lizzie core it'd be all ATO and an emergency stop would be given by operating the stop button on the platform, wouldn't it? Waving a red light would take longer than operating this button and would be less likely to succeed, so would be a really poor way to do it.

Do the underground and/or lizzie stations have a publicly accessible button for such an emergency? If someone fell on the track, I’d not rate my chances finding a member of staff in time

 

[Deepgreen]

Regarding the OP's stated inability to turn off the lights when wheeling the bike, surely there is an off switch somewhere, or are the lights on in the daytime too (causing unnecessary drag when riding)? Speaking as a cyclist, I don't want to have a drag-inducing dynamo active when not required! If the lights are permanently on, they'll just have to be covered.

 

[Horizon22]

I always politely ask people to switch off their bike lights when they come through the gates.

Indeed. I am not sure why this thread has got to 5 pages. Of course you will get that small minority who just refuse completely polite and reasonable requests for reasons known to only them and a few edge cases, but overall this is not a major issue.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2026 ==

Do the underground and/or lizzie stations have a publicly accessible button for such an emergency? If someone fell on the track, I’d not rate my chances finding a member of staff in time

Only at stations without platform screen doors (Custom House and Abbey Wood), and it is available to the public but not sure it is "publicised" as such. Mainly because these trains are in ATO, so the chance of being able to manually stop a train in an emergency is slightly reduced unlike the rest of the betwork.

The chance of ending on the track at stations with platform screen doors is as close to zero as you can get.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2026 ==

Generally yes. Doesn’t stop staff chasing me halfway across the station to mumble something about red lights. Not once have I had a member of staff clearly articulate what the problem actually was, though I know anyway and do make an effort not to activate the lights in a position where they’d be visible to a driver.

This is one of those cases of something done by staff with probably good intentions, but being a bit over-zealous.

 

[blimmo]

Regarding the OP's stated inability to turn off the lights when wheeling the bike, surely there is an off switch somewhere, or are the lights on in the daytime too (causing unnecessary drag when riding)? Speaking as a cyclist, I don't want to have a drag-inducing dynamo active when not required! If the lights are permanently on, they'll just have to be covered.

My bike is also of this design. Adding a switch adds another point of failure so if you are more concerned with reliability than riding efficiency (as I am) then no switch is preferable. Also having the light on at all times increases the odds of the people I am sharing the road with seeing me and not killing me so I don't really mind having it on all the time. Means I don't ever have to think about my lights either which is a nice bonus.

 

[traintee]

I have never had an issue when explaining this to someone. Most people just have no idea, once explained they are keen to turn their lights off going forward, it's on you to comply and isn't something very difficult to do...

 

[Oldandslow]

Even if they don't have an off switch as explained in the last few posts?