Fares to luton airport

[hi2u_uk]

Hello

I travelled from luton airport to Greenwich using contactless, what should the fare be ?

I touched in at luton airport dart and was charged £4.90

I then touched in at luton airport parkway however the fare from luton airport parkway does not seem to have taken into account that i started at luton airport dart station i.e i have been charged a separate fare starting from luton airport parkway

Is there actually a touch point reader when leaving or entering luton airport dart from the luton airport side as i couldn't see this

 

[Haywain]

Is there actually a touch point reader when leaving or entering luton airport dart from the luton airport side as i couldn't see this

You have to pass through two sets of gates at Luton Airport Parkway.

 

[hi2u_uk]

You have to pass through two sets of gates at Luton Airport Parkway.

I dont understand this reply there were no gates when you leave at the dart station so how to you touch out when you leave the dart station ?

 

[Haywain]

I dont understand this reply there were no gates when you leave at the dart station so how to you touch out when you leave the dart station ?

When you get off the DART at Parkway station you have to leave the DART through its own dedicated gate line and the pass through a second gate line to access the Thameslink (or EMR) platforms. You will touch out if the DART and in for your train journey.

 

[hi2u_uk]

Im still not understanding. Is there actually a touch point for entering the dart station or leaving the dart ???

The reason i am asking this is because i have received emails saying that i have incomplete journeys from luton airport dart . what am i supposed to tell tfl . The contactless card has registered that i traveled from luton airport parkway to Greenwich but the whole journey was from greenwich to luton airprort

 

[Haywain]

what am i supposed to tell tfl

You don’t need to tell them anything as you have been charged the correct amount.

 

[hi2u_uk]

So you are saying that everyone who goes to luton airport dart gets a warning on their contactless account to say that there is an incomplete journey that needs rectifying and that it needs to stay there forever on their contactless account because there is no information to be provided ???
Is there anyway to get this removed , im the sort of person that doesn't like unread emails or to see stuff being highlighted as incomplete and requiring my attention as this is going to stress me out and cause me anxiety . It cant stay on my account like this forever

 

[Haywain]

So you are saying that everyone who goes to luton airport dart gets a warning on their contactless account to say that there is an incomplete journey that needs rectifying and that it needs to stay there forever on their contactless account because there is no information to be provided ???

No, I am not saying that because I have no idea if that’s the case.

I touched in at luton airport dart and was charged £4.90

The images you have posted show that this is either not the case or the touch has not been registered.

 

[Connacht]

This happened to me last weekend.

There isn't a gate line at the entry to the DART outside the terminal.

There is a gate line at the exit from the DART at LTN station.

There is also a second gateline at the entry to the platforms at LTN.

I was charged the correct £4.90 fare when I tapped out using bank card.

I was told in my TFL account that I have an incomplete journey, as I didn't tap in to the DART.

 

[CyrusWuff]

To provide a bit of background, when the DART first opened there was a gateline at the Airport end.

It has since been removed, presumably to both reduce staffing costs and stop the bunching that inevitably occurred due to it having mostly standard gates and only two wide aisle gates.

As the DART has a flat fare of £4.90 when using pay as you go and doesn't count towards any daily or weekly caps, the incomplete journey charge was set to £4.90 when the gates were removed.

TfL didn't envisage that functionality being required for rail mode readers, given only buses and trams have a flat fare (thus only require one touch) within the London Area, hence it looking "odd" in your journey history.

 

[Joe Paxton]

To provide a bit of background, when the DART first opened there was a gateline at the Airport end.

It has since been removed, presumably to both reduce staffing costs and stop the bunching that inevitably occurred due to it having mostly standard gates and only two wide aisle gates.

Thanks - that explains a lot!

(Any idea exactly when the gateline at the airport end was removed?)

In terms of how this means the DART fare is now presented on TfL's contactless journey history, it's certainly suboptimal - even more so with 'incomplete journey' emails being automatically triggered.

 

[fandroid]

So, I don't know if that will give the OP the comfort they seek, but the last few posts demonstrate that everyone travelling on DART is going to get those puzzling entries on their journey history. It's a fault with the TfL system that costs the passenger nothing and everyone will have to live with until it's either sorted or TfL's whole revenue system is replaced (which might happen in our lifetimes).

 

[Joe Paxton]

So, I don't know if that will give the OP the comfort they seek, but the last few posts demonstrate that everyone travelling on DART is going to get those puzzling entries on their journey history. It's a fault with the TfL system that costs the passenger nothing and everyone will have to live with until it's either sorted or TfL's whole revenue system is replaced (which might happen in our lifetimes).

In (a small) defence of the TfL system, it's being asked to do something it wasn't designed to do.

However, as a backoffice processing function it can be changed - though as you suggest, that might need to wait until the new contract to run it takes over. That said, I'd think something can (and should) be done about this particular situation before then though.

The alternative is DART finds an alternative system to process their contactless journeys with another service provider - however I suspect that's easier said than done.

 

[Edvid]

(Any idea exactly when the gateline at the airport end was removed?)

Sometime between November 2024 and January 2025.

 

[bakerstreet]

Has the OP been charged 2 x £4.90? Instead of just 1?

Edit - apologies just seen it’s separate journeys on different days.

 

[Jan Mayen]

In (a small) defence of the TfL system, it's being asked to do something it wasn't designed to do.

However, as a backoffice processing function it can be changed - though as you suggest, that might need to wait until the new contract to run it takes over. That said, I'd think something can (and should) be done about this particular situation before then though.

The alternative is DART finds an alternative system to process their contactless journeys with... however I suspect that's easier said than done.

Is there somewhere to tap out? If not, should one be provided? Tgat would seem to solve the issue. Or have I missed sonething?

 

[Edvid]

Is there somewhere to tap out? If not, should one be provided? Tgat would seem to solve the issue. Or have I missed sonething?

See post #10 by CyrusWuff.

 

[Tester]

I am surprised that this wasn't sorted out at the planning stage.

There is plenty of precedent - for example the Hong Kong Airport Express, which is a much more complex operation, is open boarding at the airport end.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do through fares, when going to, or from, Luton Airport, tend to be more expensive than paying separately for the DART transfer, then buying/paying for rail tickets onward from Luton Airport Parkway?

 

[ChilliSauce]

I dont understand this reply there were no gates when you leave at the dart station so how to you touch out when you leave the dart station ?

The Luton Dart has a Gate line at the Luton Airport Parkway terminus. You touch out walk across the concourse and then touch in at the Gate line for Thameslink and EMR services.

For some reason at the actual airport end of the DART system there is no gate line for either entry or exit.

So the charging system appears to be a 1-shot £4.90 paided either prior to travel or upon completion of travel depending on your direction of travel .

You can go to a national rail ticket office and buy a DART transfer ticket ...except at Luton Airport Parkway the ticket office is on the Downside of the station and the DART terminal is on the Upside.

For residents living in Luton by registering on the DART website they can purchase tickets from that website with 50% discount.

Holders of the Staff Travel Card upon presenting at a National Rail Ticket Office can get 75% discount.

Status Passes are not valid, unlike when it was a bus connection to the airport.

I hope my post assists.
..

 

[Joe Paxton]

To provide a bit of background, when the DART first opened there was a gateline at the Airport end.

It has since been removed, presumably to both reduce staffing costs and stop the bunching that inevitably occurred due to it having mostly standard gates and only two wide aisle gates.
[...]

Thanks - that explains a lot!

(Any idea exactly when the gateline at the airport end was removed?)
[...]

Sometime between November 2024 and January 2025.

A very recent recent-ish development then.
[Edit - see Paul Kelly's post below, #24, correcting me on my timeline and what year it is now!]

(At a guess, once DART had made the decision to remove the gateline at the airport end, it'd make sense for it to have happened before Christmas so the benefit of it was felt by the Xmas surge in travellers.)

I am surprised that this wasn't sorted out at the planning stage.

There is plenty of precedent - for example the Hong Kong Airport Express, which is a much more complex operation, is open boarding at the airport end.

Well, it was 'sorted out' at the planning stage - as a gateline at the airport end of DART was installed and in operation when the system opened. It's just that said gateline has subsequently been removed within the past couple of months circa a year ago* - presumably as a result of having observed it in operation for over two years (and also probably influenced by the cost savings from reduced staffing).

[* see above re comment about the years!]

 

[hi2u_uk]

Im finding it amazing that no one has dealt with this issue. You may laugh but im going to find it stressful if everytime i log into my tfl account it says that there are these incomplete journeys i need to address. I cant just leave it like this until the end of time . Are we really suggesting noone has addressed this issue and people who use contactless to luton airport dart just live with this entry on their contactless account ???

The Luton Dart has a Gate line at the Luton Airport Parkway terminus. You touch out walk across the concourse and then touch in at the Gate line for Thameslink and EMR services.

For some reason at the actual airport end of the DART system there is no gate line for either entry or exit.

So the charging system appears to be a 1-shot £4.90 paided either prior to travel or upon completion of travel depending on your direction of travel .

You can go to a national rail ticket office and buy a DART transfer ticket ...except at Luton Airport Parkway the ticket office is on the Downside of the station and the DART terminal is on the Upside.

For residents living in Luton by registering on the DART website they can purchase tickets from that website with 50% discount.

Holders of the Staff Travel Card upon presenting at a National Rail Ticket Office can get 75% discount.

Status Passes are not valid, unlike when it was a bus connection to the airport.

I hope my post assists.
..

This was my original question , i do not remember seeing any readers at the Luton airport side of the dart station . I didn't realise this would result in me being charged an incomplete fare . A lot of people use this dart station and use contactless so am surprised there is no way to ensure that contactless accounts are not stating that an incomplete journey was made. Do i need to lodge a formal complaint with TFL to get them to change my account

 

[Joe Paxton]

Im finding it amazing that no one has dealt with this issue. You may laugh but im going to find it stressful if everytime i log into my tfl account it says that there are these incomplete journeys i need to address. I cant just leave it like this until the end of time . Are we really suggesting noone has addressed this issue and people who use contactless to luton airport dart just live with this entry on their contactless account ???
[...]

As Edvid has said upthread (post #14) the removal of the airport-end gateline, and by extension the validators/readers at the airport end, is a very recent recent-ish thing.
[Edit - see Paul Kelly's post below, #24, correcting me on my timeline and what year it is now!]

Perhaps DART didn't give TfL a lot of notice about this happening? We just don't know.

The reminder/nag on the TfL contactless account to resolve the incomplete journey will I think drop off 8 weeks after the event.

I imagine that a solution of some sort will be implemented soon to sort this out - not least as it will be taking up time and resources of the TfL customer contact centre as people enquire about this.

In the meantime, there are many other far more deserving things to worry about in this world!

 

[Paul Kelly]

Sometime between November 2024 and January 2025.

Checking my flight records, it was definitely still there on 15 December 2024

c.It's just that said gateline has subsequently been removed within the past couple of months

Check the years! It was one year ago

everyone who goes to luton airport dart gets a warning on their contactless account to say that there is an incomplete journey that needs rectifying

Correct

However, as a backoffice processing function it can be changed - though as you suggest, that might need to wait until the new contract to run it takes over.

Maybe that is even a clue as to why it's the way it is - maybe TfL can adjust the maximum fare charged from different stations through some admin interface without needing any help from Cubic, but changing the way it's displayed in the app would require some software development effort from Cubic.

 

[Edvid]

This is something I thought Auto Completion would easily handle. Unless the corresponding NLC was also deleted when they removed the gateline.

For the record @hi2u_uk, the single DART fare is £4.90 anyway - that is why the incomplete journey charge is set at £4.90. Even before the terminal-end gateline was removed the DART journey was always listed and charged as a separate entity whether or not you used contactless PAYG to travel elsewhere.

maybe TfL can adjust the maximum fare charged from different stations through some admin interface without needing any help from Cubic, but changing the way it's displayed in the app would require some software development effort from Cubic.

After the loss of a certain contract I doubt Cubic would be willing to do it for anything less than an exorbitant fee. (Or more exorbitant than usual!)

 

[Joe Paxton]

It's just that said gateline has subsequently been removed within the past couple of months

Check the years! It was one year ago

Well, I did write 2005 as the date a few days back! (...as I hummed away to the fresh new sound of this indie band called the Arctic Monkeys...)

However, as a backoffice processing function it can be changed - though as you suggest, that might need to wait until the new contract to run it takes over.

Maybe that is even a clue as to why it's the way it is - maybe TfL can adjust the maximum fare charged from different stations through some admin interface without needing any help from Cubic, but changing the way it's displayed in the app would require some software development effort from Cubic.

And I guess in turn perhaps it provides further evidence as to why TfL has decided to make a break from Cubic.

 

[SAPhil]

For residents living in Luton by registering on the DART website they can purchase tickets from that website with 50% discount.


..

Also ENCTS card holders can register on the DART Website and get free tickets!

 

[ChilliSauce]

Also ENCTS card holders can register on the DART Website and get free tickets!

Which is all very strange as it's not limited to just residents of Luton who hold an ENCTS and when it was the connecting bus service ENCTS was not valid for anyone.

 

[SAPhil]

I'm not complaining!

 

[Joe Paxton]

Which is all very strange as it's not limited to just residents of Luton who hold an ENCTS and when it was the connecting bus service ENCTS was not valid for anyone.

The shuttle bus service was run by the railway (specifically by the Thameslink franchisee, so most recently GTR), wherears DART is owned and run by an arms-length subsidiary of Luton council (who own the airport).