Cycles at Stations: Red Rear Light Safety Risk?

[Full Standing]

I was taking my bike on the train today. As I was entering Preston station this evening (while it was already dark outside), a member of staff quite loudly and excitedly yelled something at me which I didn't manage to understand. I therefore approached him and asked what the problem was. He bluntly told me that I have to switch off the red rear light on my bike, without giving any kind of jusification. He also told two other members of staff, which were standing nearby, that my bike had the red light on.

Since my bike is built in a way such that the light constantly lights up when the front wheel is moving (using a dynamo without a switch), I continued my way through the station holding the front wheel up.

As I felt a little puzzled in this situation I did not manage to ask for the reason. I have taken my bike on the British rail network several times before without such issues. The behaviour of the staff member suggested that I have violated some very important rule (which I however could not find in a quick web search).

So, I'm asking, why was I told to switch off the light? Is it to not confuse train drivers?

 

[Surreytraveller]

A driver may mistake your red light as an 'emergency stop' signal, as that is what a red light not on a signal means

 

[trundlewagon]

why was I told to switch off the light? Is it to not confuse train drivers?

In theory yes and it's best to turn it off but in practice, it's quite obvious when it's the light on someone's bike

 

[brad465]

Four years ago I had the same problem and had my own thread on it:

Bicycle lights interfering with signal for a station cleaner?

This will probably sound bizarre, but at Swanley station earlier I arrived with my bike, where walking down to the platform a cleaner asked me to turn my lights off as they were "interfering with the signal", having forgotten to on arrival. This is completely new to me, and I never actually...

www.railforums.co.uk

The thing that most confused me at the time was that a cleaner was the person who said I needed the turn the light off (I was in a hurry otherwise I'd already have done), so thought it interfered with their cleaning tools, as I wrongly assumed cleaning staff were not trained in railway knowledge to that extent.

 

[D6130]

Yes

I'm asking, why was I told to switch off the light? Is it to not confuse train drivers?

Yes....that's exactly the problem. During the hours of darkness and at other times of poor visibility a red light on a bike can easily be mistaken for an emergency stop signal being waved by a member of railway staff.

Several years ago - during the Winter months - I was driving a class 333 EMU on an early morning Skipton to Leeds service. Approaching Steeton & Silsden, I spotted a red light up ahead close to the beginning of the platform and made an emergency brake application. By the time I had come to a stand about one carriage length into the platform, I could see that it was a rear light on a cycle being wheeled close to the platform edge. After making an emergency stop, the brakes cannot be released for two minutes. By the time that had happened and we had drawn forward along the platform and the conductor had released and closed the doors, the train had sustained a six minute delay.

 

[Angmering1974]

Of all the things they put up posters about and make announcements for...this would actually be a useful one

 

[Krokodil]

I'm sure that extinguishing lights used to be written advice years ago but I can't find it now. If you can't turn it off then perhaps cover it with something.

 

[Full Standing]

Thanks for the responses so far! Every day is a school day and I will from now on make sure that the lights are extinguished when wheeling my bike along stations and platforms.

Four years ago I had the same problem and had my own thread on it:

Thanks for digging this up, interesting.

Of all the things they put up posters about and make announcements for...

I'm sure that extinguishing lights used to be written advice years ago but I can't find it now.

I concur with the opinion that this is actually a good thing to mention on posters etc.

Another question one may ask is whether there is actually any regulation preventing passengers from having their bike lights switched on (or, more generally, using lights on the platform). Or is it just common sense? I do seem to recall that flash photography is banned on the London Underground network.

 

[MargaretNoodle]

Yes, this happened to me as well just over a year ago and in a very similar staff encounter to what the OP described. It upset me a bit as I don't like to do things that could interfere with the operations or safety of the railways, but it was something that was never clearly advertised to me, although I probably should have realised this myself.

Annoyingly my bike is of the type that has a built in rear light powered by a capacitor and takes a few minutes to turn off, with no button I can press to instantly shut it down. This means that if I'm arriving to a station on the bike in the dark I need to somehow cover the back light, usually with a coat or piece of clothing.

 

[z444z]

I use a mobility scooter with brake lights that cannot be switched off and have staff yap at me about this semi regularly, including like ten hours ago. It seems to always be in the Elizabeth line core. Not my problem imo.

 

[jon0844]

Of all the things they put up posters about and make announcements for...this would actually be a useful one

The GTR posters about bike restrictions do ask for lights to be turned off.

 

[rower40]

I fitted a push-button to short out the super-capacitor on my bike’s rear light for just this purpose.

A red hand-lamp on the platform edge can mean ‘stop here’ when the far end of the platform is clear (i.e the train’s previous signal was yellow), but is going to be used for another train coming in from the opposite direction.

(In one instance- Witham platform 4- there are special “4-car stop” and “8-car stop” markers that light up when the signaller sets certain routes into that platform. Wholly redundant now that all trains there are 5 or 10 cars, as they don’t fit behind those markers!)

A white light is used by platform staff for dispatching.

 

[norbitonflyer]

For the same reason the poppies adorning every canopy support at Surbiton were hastily removed after drivers reported that their presence disguised the signal at the end of the platform. (On the "hide a tree in a forest" principle)

 

[DelW]

Possibly this has become more of a problem since the development of high intensity LED battery lights. The traditional cycle rear lamp of years ago, with a 3v "torch bulb" light source, would have been too dim to compete effectively with station lighting, but LEDs can be very bright.

 

[Kite159]

I use a mobility scooter with brake lights that cannot be switched off and have staff yap at me about this semi regularly, including like ten hours ago. It seems to always be in the Elizabeth line core. Not my problem imo.

So you think it's safe to have something with red lights which can't be switched off in an environment where red lights mean stop?

All it takes is to be poorly positioned on the platform and for a driver of a passing train to think the red lights is a member of staff trying to get the train to stop in an emergency situation and for them to slam on the emergency brakes causing injuries to passengers on board the train.

But I guess that would be the fault of the driver as it isn't your problem?

 

[Agent_Squash]

So you think it's safe to have something with red lights which can't be switched off in an environment where red lights mean stop?

All it takes is to be poorly positioned on the platform and for a driver of a passing train to think the red lights is a member of staff trying to get the train to stop in an emergency situation and for them to slam on the emergency brakes causing injuries to passengers on board the train.

But I guess that would be the fault of the driver as it isn't your problem?

Millions of road users survive with cyclists on the road without getting them confused for traffic lights and emergency braking causing injuries to the drivers in the vehicle, or indeed causing a collision.

If this risk was genuinely real (and not H&S scaremongering) then the railway needs to find a solution. This reeks of satisfying insurance policies more than anything.

 

[z444z]

Millions of road users survive with cyclists on the road without getting them confused for traffic lights and emergency braking causing injuries to the drivers in the vehicle, or indeed causing a collision.

If this risk was genuinely real (and not H&S scaremongering) then the railway needs to find a solution. This reeks of satisfying insurance policies more than anything.

The solution could be as simple as not using red or white lights, the two light colours commonly found on bikes, mobility scooters, wheelchairs, torches, etc, to mean anything. Why not make flashing purple mean stop?

 

[duffield]

If this risk was genuinely real...

Did you see post #5 above? Where an actual driver really had exactly this happen?

 

[Krokodil]

Millions of road users survive with cyclists on the road without getting them confused for traffic lights and emergency braking causing injuries to the drivers in the vehicle, or indeed causing a collision.

Millions of road users run red lights every day. I'm not going to use the roads as an example of best practice.

Furthermore, a handlamp means nothing to a road user, but it's a means of signalling on the railway. A bike light can be confused for a handlamp.

 

[Sprinter107]

I was approaching Cradley Heath late one Sunday evening going towards Snow Hill, and a lad was moving his bike from side to side, with the red lamp facing me. I couldn't see it was a bike as I approached, and thought someone was trying to stop the train, due to an emergency on the platform. The platform is curved, so if anything is going on, until you get closer you cant see what it is. It wasnt until I got closer that I could see it was the rear light on a bicycle. But id already used the emergency brake, so had to wait for the time out, before I could proceed up the platform.
I did explain to the person when he got off at Snow Hill, and to be fair he was as good as gold about it.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Did you see post #5 above? Where an actual driver really had exactly this happen?

And there's plenty of things the railway can do. Such as changing the colour from one that is so prevalent in every day life (I appreciate this won't happen) - or more realistically, ETCS which removes the need to rely on signal colours at all.

The fact remains - these lights are everywhere in every day life, and the railway needs to start looking at solutions that will actually be beneficial safety wise.

Millions of road users run red lights every day.

Any evidence of this claim?

As post #17 suggests, use a different colour. Purple would be a good one.

The railway would do good to remember that is run for the benefit of passengers (including those who use bikes) rather than working against them. And truthfully, it will never solve the issue of the wheel activated lights on bikes (which is a massive safety improvement which shouldn't be removed)

 

[bramling]

I use a mobility scooter with brake lights that cannot be switched off and have staff yap at me about this semi regularly, including like ten hours ago. It seems to always be in the Elizabeth line core. Not my problem imo.

At the end of the day if you choose to travel by rail, a system where red lamps are conspicuous to drivers as a stop signal, it should really be your problem. Staff should be polite in speaking to people about it, though.

 

[Sprinter107]

Even if ECTS were introduced, to stop a train quickly in an emergency may still be a red light, or a red flag in daylight hours.

 

[Agent_Squash]

At the end of the day if you choose to travel by rail, a system where red lamps are conspicuous to drivers as a stop signal, it should really be your problem. Staff should be polite in speaking to people about it, though.

Isn't this technically a breach of the Equality Act?

Even if ECTS were introduced, to stop a train quickly in an emergency may still be a red light, or a red flag in daylight hours.

Different colours are available. You could argue that lights from other trains, the surrounding environment...

A thought would be that if a station was lit properly, the red light on the bike would be less of an issue.

 

[Krokodil]

And there's plenty of things the railway can do. Such as changing the colour from one that is so prevalent in every day life (I appreciate this won't happen) - or more realistically, ETCS which removes the need to rely on signal colours at all.

Red means stop. That's the universal understanding. Changing it introduces confusion and compromises safety. ETCS doesn't remove the use of handsignals to stop a train in an emergency. It's not hard to turn off or obscure one's bike lights.

Even ignoring the red colour, many bike headlights are white and extremely bright. They may dazzle a driver at a crucial moment.

Any evidence of this claim?

Watch a set of lights for ten minutes. Count how many cars (of those first in line) cross the line while the red light is illuminated. Extrapolate to the rest of the population.

 

[Sprinter107]

Yes, i see red traffic lights jumped almost every day on the way to and from work. In fact, at one set of lights, its almost a certainty.

 

[Agent_Squash]

It's not hard to turn off or obscure one's bike lights.

Even ignoring the red colour, many bike headlights are white and extremely bright. They may dazzle a driver at a crucial moment.

It's a lot harder than it used to be - more and more new bikes automatically turn them on when the wheels rotate. It's a good safety feature for the bikes.

Again though, would improving station lighting improve this?

 

[Sprinter107]

I think in some cases better station lighting would improve it.

 

[whoosh]

Millions of road users survive with cyclists on the road without getting them confused for traffic lights and emergency braking causing injuries to the drivers in the vehicle, or indeed causing a collision.

If this risk was genuinely real (and not H&S scaremongering) then the railway needs to find a solution. This reeks of satisfying insurance policies more than anything.

Of course, I can completely ignore red lights on platforms from a distance, running over a person who has fallen off the platform edge, and claim I thought it was "just a cyclist, like it always is," and not a member of railway staff frantically and correctly trying to stop me.

I'm sure i won't go to prison for manslaughter - that's just scaremongering.

[Just as I always wait for cyclists to exit the platform when they choose to cycle along it, holding up the train - because if they end up slipping and falling under my train when it is moving, I'll have to justify my actions in court.]



So... cyclists:

Don't cycle on platforms.
Turn off your lights on platforms.

Oh, and dont travel between Drayton Park and Moorgate with your cycle - it isn't allowed.


Those things are quite simple, but the number of delay minutes each week because of those things....!

 

[tumbledown]

Speaking as a cyclist...it is entirely reasonable for the railway to require you to turn off or cover red rear lights on platforms. If your vehicle doesn't make that easy, your quarrel is with the manufacturer of the vehicle. Causing trouble about it is just going to get bikes or other vehicles banned.