TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion

[mangad]

An observation of the past few days is that a few First Manchester Mellor's have been running round with blank front destination blinds.

Just today I had a driver with the incorrect destination blind also and when challenged he said that if he changes the blind he'd have to wait 5 minutes and then everyone would be late!

I've seen more than few of Diamonds with blank blinds, and a yellow piece of paper with a route number in the window. A few weeks go my other half missed her bus at 9pm because the bus in question didn't have a working destination blind and she didn't recognise it as being a bus in the dark!

On Saturday we had a plain white Diamond Mellor turn up, also with the route number in the window. Was tracking as "spare ticket machine", and the driver was clearly enjoying the ability to play out Greatest Hits Radio from the bus stereo system!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On the 368 service, where I live in Heald Green now, I still note that Metroline still use some of the former Stagecoach Manchester livered buses. Is there any time period set when all those buses will be in the Bee Network livery?

In Stockport bus station this week, I did see similar old livered buses with a window display to say the bus was waiting to be relivered.

 

[Class 466]

On the 368 service, where I live in Heald Green now, I still note that Metroline still use some of the former Stagecoach Manchester livered buses. Is there any time period set when all those buses will be in the Bee Network livery?

In Stockport bus station this week, I did see similar old livered buses with a window display to say the bus was waiting to be relivered.

I’ve seen 2 years from commencement date of each tranche mooted before - noting that all of GNW T1 fleet was fully yellow for September 2025

 

[Leyland Bus]

I’ve seen 2 years from commencement date of each tranche mooted before - noting that all of GNW T1 fleet was fully yellow for September 2025

The 2 years was an agreement with Diamond over continued use of their livery and "Diamond" vertical motif.

 

[mayneway]

The recent announcement was pretty clear that the order for 220 vehicles (whatever they are) will complete the conversion to electric of both Hyde Road and Oldham. (Certainly the total of 220 roughly matches up with what's needed at each depot to do this - it's something like a 130/90 split Hyde Road / Oldham).

Crazy to fully electrify the bigger depots given the struggles Ashton and Middleton are having in the afternoons with vehicles with little charge on them.
Even Oldham is massively struggling with E300’s and even B5’s turning up on the 409 and even the 17/18 in recent days because the cold weather has decimated the battery’s on the electrics.
Hyde road seems to do slightly better as they have a large fleet of diesels that can go out instead.

 

[jeffery9098]

Is this going to result in some services swapping depots (163 going to Weston St for electrification) or will it just stay the same as it has been at Heywood

No services would move to Bolton. There's a plan with Nelson St would be cycle/help the supply vehicles between Bolton mainly for school services > 'lack of availability for vehicles' during the hours of 06:00hrs - 09:00hrs and 14:00hrs - 16:30hrs. If you are unaware school services, they need to have double deckers and it's not logical to use 'large franchise depots' to run few school services which you'll lead to the same issues that Bolton has (for ages) where there's hardly any double deckers left which you'll look around depot and see an single decker > so throw it on 36 or 471. If there's no single deckers then take set on vantage vehicles until you have nothing which means services won't run...


Most likely whenever Bolton receives 38 EV's (from TfGM) as it has additional chargers but no additional EV's then 163 would have EV's with streetdecks 'most likely' moving over to Nelson St because 'no space' and 'modernising or improving the average age of the fleet'. With that agency driver comment, some of them have gone back to London (agency request) as GNW will have to fund them so Heywood Drivers got offered to work at other depots (Bolton/Wigan) and contracts would change at depots they decide. It's going to be more exciting to see new pay rates (if agreed) where it'll match current (or better than) pay rates of drivers in GM.

 

[Bungle965]

Crazy to fully electrify the bigger depots given the struggles Ashton and Middleton are having in the afternoons with vehicles with little charge on them.
Even Oldham is massively struggling with E300’s and even B5’s turning up on the 409 and even the 17/18 in recent days because the cold weather has decimated the battery’s on the electrics.
Hyde road seems to do slightly better as they have a large fleet of diesels that can go out instead.

Spotted an E300 at Rochdale Bus Station just now labelled up as the 17! Pretty rare to see a single decker.

27938 - SN13 CKF

ADL/TransBus Enviro300

bustimes.org

 

[mayneway]

Spotted an E300 at Rochdale Bus Station just now labelled up as the 17! Pretty rare to see a single decker.

27938 - SN13 CKF

ADL/TransBus Enviro300

bustimes.org

There’s been a few over the last week or so. The 409 has also been a heavy mix of electrics, E400 MMC’s plus older E400’s, B5 hybrids and E300’s.

I was told by a driver they have to fall back on hybrids and E300’a because the electrics allocated to the boards are not charged enough when they return to the depot through the day.

 

[Bungle965]

There’s been a few over the last week or so. The 409 has also been a heavy mix of electrics, E400 MMC’s plus older E400’s, B5 hybrids and E300’s.

I was told by a driver they have to fall back on hybrids and E300’a because the electrics allocated to the boards are not charged enough when they return to the depot through the day.

I presume there's also still an element of monitoring of the charge for the overall health of the battery, where the controller will pull a bus in at 25/30% something which wouldn't have been an issue with conventional fuel

 

[mayneway]

I presume there's also still an element of monitoring of the charge for the overall health of the battery, where the controller will pull a bus in at 25/30% something which wouldn't have been an issue with conventional fuel
Ironically when I started on the electric buses last summer we were told to contact depot if the bus got to 40% as they would then arrange a changeover, that’s now gone down to 25% but I know drivers who have rung up at 20% and been told to carry on.

The buses are great in summer and can easily work all day no issues but in the winter it’s like watching a clock countdown. Heating, lights, wipers and the cold its self all have a massive impact.
I also understand that the overall temperature when they are on charge also affects how fast they charge, so when it’s below 5 degrees they recharge slower than when it’s warmer.

 

[M60lad]

With these electric buses how long does a set of bus batteries last before they need changing and would this have an affect on service output?

 

[Tim33160]

On Saturday we had a plain white Diamond Mellor turn up, also with the route number in the window. Was tracking as "spare ticket machine", and the driver was clearly enjoying the ability to play out Greatest Hits Radio from the bus stereo system!

Diamond have Merc Sprinter Mellor Strata 21256 WX71KHJ on loan from Mellor working in plain white with no fleetnames https://bustimes.org/vehicles/neat-wx71khj

 

[mangad]

Diamond have Merc Sprinter Mellor Strata 21256 WX71KHJ on loan from Mellor working in plain white with no fleetnames https://bustimes.org/vehicles/neat-wx71khj

If it's the one we were on, the suspension was terrible. We went over a speed bump, and no joke, I was jolted into the air. Don't remember ever having that happen on any other vehicle.

 

[darylyates17]

If it's the one we were on, the suspension was terrible. We went over a speed bump, and no joke, I was jolted into the air. Don't remember ever having that happen on any other vehicle.

Suspension is bad on Mellors due to the van based chassis less weight on the rear axle makes it much worse.

 

[mayneway]

The issue with the Mellors destinations probably goes back to when they were first delivered and a contractor working on behalf of TFGM fitting either the CCTV, radio or telematics spliced onto the wiring for the destination equipment corrupting the controller. Some blinds completely stopped working and others continued to work but wouldn’t accept updates. I noticed when the Stagecoach examples passed over to Diamond most ran for the first few weeks with non working blinds and paper in the window, then all but one seemed to get fixed.

 

[Simon75]

An observation of the past few days is that a few First Manchester Mellor's have been running round with blank front destination blinds.

Just today I had a driver with the incorrect destination blind also and when challenged he said that if he changes the blind he'd have to wait 5 minutes and then everyone would be late!

At least with roller binds you would have the number, but sometimes destination blank

 

[mattyharding]

I think the ex GNW (non-refurb) B5LHs apart from 13164 are all at the Volvo garage in Trafford or elsewhere as they haven't been in service in ages

 

[Class 466]

I think the ex GNW (non-refurb) B5LHs apart from 13164 are all at the Volvo garage in Trafford or elsewhere as they haven't been in service in ages

I had heard the ones still in Go North West livery were to be repainted, but not refurbished, now at the request of TFGM. I know a couple are at Volvo though because they’re knackered.

 

[Leyland Bus]

I had heard the ones still in Go North West livery were to be repainted, but not refurbished, now at the request of TFGM. I know a couple are at Volvo though because they’re knackered.

I wrote up thread on Xmas eve the two that were at Hardies...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2026 ==

Also of note, some actual fleet news for a change, GNW training bus Citaro 9151 has been dispatched to Barnsley for scrap following componant recovery.

 

[mattyharding]

I wrote up thread on Xmas eve the two that were at Hardies...

Oh yes but I think they're waiting to be sent to P.V.S Barnsley at this point

 

[mayneway]

Oh yes but I think they're waiting to be sent to P.V.S Barnsley at this point

Have you got any confirmation on this or is it just an assumption?
I’d be very surprised given the state and condition of the Scania’s - that all got sold on to ensign and most are now In further use if TFGM decided to scrap 61 plate hybrids they paid over the odds for.

Hasn’t EYMS successfully converted several hybrids back to full diesels? This would be a possible option for them if they are knackered but I doubt they will be scrapped.

 

[Leyland Bus]

Have you got any confirmation on this or is it just an assumption?
I’d be very surprised given the state and condition of the Scania’s - that all got sold on to ensign and most are now In further use if TFGM decided to scrap 61 plate hybrids they paid over the odds for.

Hasn’t EYMS successfully converted several hybrids back to full diesels? This would be a possible option for them if they are knackered but I doubt they will be scrapped.

They've done atleast a couple if not more, plus there will always be someone willing to buy them for the right price, which would be more than scrap value i'm sure... Unless the ones at Volvo were sacrificed for componant recovery (it didn't look like it but then I didn't exactly go crawling round them) then scrap would be more likely...

 

[mayneway]

They've done atleast a couple if not more, plus there will always be someone willing to buy them for the right price, which would be more than scrap value i'm sure... Unless the ones at Volvo were sacrificed for componant recovery (it didn't look like it but then I didn't exactly go crawling round them) then scrap would be more likely...

To be honest during the final year of Go north west at Queens road there was at least 3 of the B5’s missing and at Volvo, I remember 3007 being one of them and 3010 being another, so it doesn’t surprise me but I’d very much doubt they would write them off when there’s other options available.

 

[mattyharding]

To be honest during the final year of Go north west at Queens road there was at least 3 of the B5’s missing and at Volvo, I remember 3007 being one of them and 3010 being another, so it doesn’t surprise me but I’d very much doubt they would write them off when there’s other options available.

Well maybe they could be sold on but I would highly doubt that anyone would take them

 

[gka472l]

To be honest during the final year of Go north west at Queens road there was at least 3 of the B5’s missing and at Volvo, I remember 3007 being one of them and 3010 being another, so it doesn’t surprise me but I’d very much doubt they would write them off when there’s other options available.

Not Bee Network, but relevant to the discussion about B5LH Hybrids, Arriva Yorkshire has gotten rid of all theirs and most of not all are now with Arriva Merseyside for spares recovery, although 1 has entered service to replace a withdrawn vehicle, and these are newer 13 plate examples....

 

[Leyland Bus]

Not Bee Network, but relevant to the discussion about B5LH Hybrids, Arriva Yorkshire has gotten rid of all theirs and most of not all are now with Arriva Merseyside for spares recovery, although 1 has entered service to replace a withdrawn vehicle, and these are newer 13 plate examples....

Yes but they have likely depreciated over a fairly normal timeframe. It is believed TfGM paid a pretty penny for several buses so are known to want their monies worth out of them where possible...

 

[darylyates17]

Not Bee Network, but relevant to the discussion about B5LH Hybrids, Arriva Yorkshire has gotten rid of all theirs and most of not all are now with Arriva Merseyside for spares recovery, although 1 has entered service to replace a withdrawn vehicle, and these are newer 13 plate examples....

I Know its not Bee Network related but I wonder who's actually got any Euro 4/5 B5LHs left in service? can't be many left due to the costs of the batteries.

 

[mayneway]

To celebrate Queens road depots 125th year of operation (originally a tram shed), all Queens road vehicles are having the depot code (QS) added to the the end of fleet numbers. I’ve noticed a couple out today with the codes already added.

Obviously the over zealous enthusiasts are going to assume it’s a Bee network thing and they all buses will get depot codes - only queens road buses are to get them.

Personally I think it looks a bit daft but each to their own.

 

[MCRTransitYT]

To celebrate Queens road depots 125th year of operation (originally a tram shed), all Queens road vehicles are having the depot code (QS) added to the the end of fleet numbers. I’ve noticed a couple out today with the codes already added.

Obviously the over zealous enthusiasts are going to assume it’s a Bee network thing and they all buses will get depot codes - only queens road buses are to get them.

Personally I think it looks a bit daft but each to their own.

(I know they arent but) If they were doing the whole GM depot codes, would they use little cards on the front/side of buses like London, to avoid use of vinyls constantly?

 

[Leyland Bus]

To celebrate Queens road depots 125th year of operation (originally a tram shed), all Queens road vehicles are having the depot code (QS) added to the the end of fleet numbers. I’ve noticed a couple out today with the codes already added.

Obviously the over zealous enthusiasts are going to assume it’s a Bee network thing and they all buses will get depot codes - only queens road buses are to get them.

Personally I think it looks a bit daft but each to their own.

It was an idea by the management at Stagecoach Manchester with approval of TfGM.

It makes a change from the norm.