EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[D365]

105 is off for prep for transfer to Lumo, so I'd guess that 104 is the next to go?

104 isn't going to Lumo

I can only assume that 105 and 104 are a mistype for 005 and 004.

 

[LowLevel]

222104 is off to London as we speak on the 0530 from Sheffield.

222004 is on the 0556 Sheffield to London.

 

[londonmidland]

222019 has failed, with only two out of five engines working, which has meant the last service from London St. Pancras to Sheffield has been cancelled tonight.

#EMRUpdate Due to a fault on a train, our last train from London St Pancras to Sheffield (22:02 depature) has been cancelled. If you were travelling on this train, your original ticket will be valid on the 21:02 London - Sheffield. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused.

 

[tram21]

222019 has failed, with only two out of five engines working, which has meant the last service from London St. Pancras to Sheffield has been cancelled tonight.

Can a train not run, albeit slowly, with only 2 engines?

 

[Bevan Price]

222019 has failed, with only two out of five engines working, which has meant the last service from London St. Pancras to Sheffield has been cancelled tonight.

What will they do for doubtless many passengers who go to St. Pancras unaware of that cancellation ?
Not everybody checks the internet before travelling.

 

[liamf656]

Can a train not run, albeit slowly, with only 2 engines?

No. It'll put too much strain on the two engines that are still running, giving the risk of stranding the train

 

[londonmidland]

What will they do for doubtless many passengers who go to St. Pancras unaware of that cancellation ?
Not everybody checks the internet before travelling.

I believe alternative transport is being arranged.

 

[tram21]

I believe alternative transport is being arranged.

It's now being started from Derby, so at least that section is sorted. Passengers for stations to Derby can use the Nottingham service at 2232.

Its just Passengers for Sheffield that will be affected, and it'll probably just be taxis from Nottingham for what I would imagine would only be a few people who are actually going the whole way, and didn't make it to the 2102 service.

 

[whoosh]

Can a train not run, albeit slowly, with only 2 engines?

It can yes, more slowly like you say.
BUT, it's last trip has been cancelled. And what happens after the last trip?
Onto the depot, to be... refuelled.

But it likely won't make it as those two coaches with the only engines running will be using a lot more fuel than they usually do, hauling the whole train around by themselves.

 

[Railperf]

Would it be true to say the 7-car sets are struggling at the moment? The 11:32 St Pancras to Sheffield - in particular - seems to have struggled to run to time the last few weeks. I think on-time only 2 or three times - with some quite bad delays on certain days.

 

[LowLevel]

Would it be true to say the 7-car sets are struggling at the moment? The 11:32 St Pancras to Sheffield - in particular - seems to have struggled to run to time the last few weeks. I think on-time only 2 or three times - with some quite bad delays on certain days.

There are only 2 x 7 cars in traffic at the minute and I've not noticed them misbehaving particularly.

They're frequently delayed by Corby trains around Wellingborough.

 

[eastwestdivide]

There are only 2 x 7 cars in traffic at the minute and I've not noticed them misbehaving particularly.

They're frequently delayed by Corby trains around Wellingborough.

That’s been my experience out of St P: late running of expresses is usually down to “heavy traffic”. The timetabling is tight enough that delays to one service soon have a knock-on effect on everything else.

 

[tram21]

It seems that the Sunday morning trains, from Nottingham especially, it is physically impossible to not be 10+ minutes late between Bedford and London. There has not once been an instance where the first train from Nottingham, the 0820, hasn't been over 9 minutes late. I assume its interactions with Thameslink trains, or just it being impossible to maintain timings when stopping at all stops which they do.

There's no changes for this in the upcoming timetable changes either.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The fleet was definitely taxed to the max last weekend. Found them to cope reasonably well, though more 10-car wouldn't have gone amiss.

 

[transportphoto]

There has not once been an instance where the first train from Nottingham, the 0820, hasn't been over 9 minutes late.

Is this anecdotal from when you’ve travelled on it? What time period does your statement cover? Have you any evidence to support?

 

[tram21]

Is this anecdotal from when you’ve travelled on it? What time period does your statement cover? Have you any evidence to support?

The timetable changed in May as a result of a change in Sunday morning trains, allowing them to use the fast lines.

My statement is based on my travels on quite a few days, and looking online on other weeks.

 

[Horizon22]

Is this anecdotal from when you’ve travelled on it? What time period does your statement cover? Have you any evidence to support?

The timetable changed in May as a result of a change in Sunday morning trains, allowing them to use the fast lines.

My statement is based on my travels on quite a few days, and looking online on other weeks.

Looking at Recent Train Times, this does appear to be correct (albeit the timing changes slightly). The last time it was only was a one-off timing in September.

 

[tram21]

Lots of cancellations today on EMR Intercity due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time'.

At least they cancel the trains such as the 2235 from London which arrives as a double unit and leaves as two singles, meaning only a service in one direction is cancelled.

 

[Railperf]

Lots of cancellations today on EMR Intercity due to 'more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time'.

At least they cancel the trains such as the 2235 from London which arrives as a double unit and leaves as two singles, meaning only a service in one direction is cancelled.

Any idea what is causing the issues other than maintenance resources being focused on the 810's.

 

[QSK19]

Any idea what is causing the issues other than maintenance resources being focused on the 810's.

Guessing general end-of-lease “neglect”. Déjà vu considering we saw it with the 360s. The 222s really are in a grubby state nevertheless - the word preceding “hits the fan” would be apt!

 

[Trainman40083]

Guessing general end-of-lease “neglect”. Déjà vu considering we saw it with the 360s. The 222s really are in a grubby state nevertheless - the word preceding “hits the fan” would be apt!

Some suggested in the past that reliability dipped when Hitachi took over from "Bombardier". That said, most of the staff would be the same, maybe not the supply chain. When you sweat the assets, you get failures.

 

[Railperf]

Some suggested in the past that reliability dipped when Hitachi took over from "Bombardier". That said, most of the staff would be the same, maybe not the supply chain. When you sweat the assets, you get failures.

Didn't EMR just sign a maintenance contract with Alstom for 222 maintenance for 2026?

 

[Trainman40083]

Didn't EMR just sign a maintenance contract with Alstom for 222 maintenance for 2026?

Maybe that was Central Rivers.

 

[ThatBloke]

As the question raised in post 111 above:
'Some suggested in the past that reliability dipped when Hitachi took over from "Bombardier". That said, most of the staff would be the same, maybe not the supply chain. When you sweat the assets, you get failures.'

When Hitachi took over the maintenance from Alstom/Bombardier: Whilst many of the staff are the same Hitachi's maintenance management processes differed, and Hitachi are only looking after the 222s on sufferance as their 810s are woefully late. Consequently Hitachi have no management or intellectual capital investment. Their focus is (rightly) the 810s.

Didn't EMR just sign a maintenance contract with Alstom for 222 maintenance for 2026?

Alstom as the OEM, are providing technical support and parts supply for the 222s.
The day to day maintenance planning, execution and reliability is down to Hitachi/EMR.
This contract was originally to end in Dec 2025, but due to late 810s a 12 month extension is now in place.

 

[222001]

Didn't EMR just sign a maintenance contract with Alstom for 222 maintenance for 2026?

Hitachi took over day to day maintenance of 222s from Alstom in 2024 I believe, and have done an absolutely shocking job since.

222011 has also failed 3 days in a row! Monday / Tuesday with a fire alarm activation. I'm guessing today will be for the same reason again.

 

[londonmidland]

222101 has just coupled onto our 222 at Derby (222020) working 1C62 to London.

It was said the set is needed in London. Unsure whether the rear set is unlocked or whether it is just ‘tagging along’.

 

[QSK19]

Hitachi took over day to day maintenance of 222s from Alstom in 2024 I believe, and have done an absolutely shocking job since.

I always thought that was a bad omen. I assume it is because Hitachi stock will be there for many, many years, so it keeps maintenance staffing standardised.

But the 222s really are shocking. I think we knew that standards would slip, but just how much they actually have gone down is extremely disappointing. Doesn’t help, I suppose, with the endless delays - it’s been years of a “keep them going for another couple of months” sort of thing.

 

[Trainman40083]

Hitachi took over day to day maintenance of 222s from Alstom in 2024 I believe, and have done an absolutely shocking job since.

222011 has also failed 3 days in a row! Monday / Tuesday with a fire alarm activation. I'm guessing today will be for the same reason again.

Yes, looks like 222011 was scheduled to work the 13.30 ECS from Cricklewood to St Pancras....and doesn't seem to have done.

 

[Sheldonian]

Might not be rhe right thread, apologies if so, but 222005 just heading south through Rugby

 

[Railperf]

I always thought that was a bad omen. I assume it is because Hitachi stock will be there for many, many years, so it keeps maintenance staffing standardised.

But the 222s really are shocking. I think we knew that standards would slip, but just how much they actually have gone down is extremely disappointing. Doesn’t help, I suppose, with the endless delays - it’s been years of a “keep them going for another couple of months” sort of thing.

What are the biggest issues now?