Northern’s New Trains, Possible Interior Spec Speculation

[Bletchleyite]

I'd have a 745 from London to Cornwall or Scotland anyday over an IET, even with the Avanti or Lumo seats, as long as you're not over 6ft the softened FISA lean is the best modern era standard class seat. The cushion on those Avanti/Lumo seats is flat whereas it's arced on the FISA which makes puts less pressure on your backside.

The problem with seats that attempt to curve to fit peoples' backs is that they only fit some peoples' backs because not everyone is the same shape (which is why premium cars and office chairs have seats with adjustable lumbar support by protrusion and height above base). I personally find the seat in the 730/2 (a wider version of that in the 720 with armrests) fits my back very well, but there will be people who hate it. If you keep it simple like the Avanti/Lumo seat you suit more people. The LEAN really doesn't suit my shape - it saps legroom due to the thick seat back (a terrible piece of design), the "wings" are too low so hit my shoulders and the curve of the backrest just isn't quite right - I'd say I prefer the Sophia over it even with the metal bar issue. But yes I'm (well) over 6ft.

I think the aim should be a seat that everyone finds pretty much acceptable, which gives you something like the Grammar E3000 "Desiro seat" or even the contoured version of the "ironing board" on the 195 which now people are used to them and they've softened a bit don't seem to cause much moaning. It should also have a thin back and the supports in the middle rather than the sides, because men sit comfortably with legs apart and most tall people are men - the Sophia and the seat in the 175/180 do this quite well, the LEAN does the exact opposite, being designed effectively for tall women (as women sit comfortably with knees together) of whom there aren't very many.

 

[py_megapixel]

I see, it does make sense, why did Northern remove coach numbers? I preferred the screen format from when they were introduced, along with Trisha Jarman voicing the announcements

The screen format seems to be a bit broken on the 195/331 units. The text jumps forward rather than scrolling smoothly, as if the framerate is too low, and there is lots of very small text that you have no chance of being able to read unless you're right next to the screen!

I'm not sure the coach numbers were ever actually used for anything - Northern services don't have reserved seating and I never heard any staff announce anything by coach number. I must admit I hadn't noticed that they were on the displays in the first place and I'm not sure why they were removed.

 

[rmHawk765]

the woeful design of the 720.

It sure was a complete misfire to ruin an otherwise great train with that interior, especially seeing how much better c2c's are despite working similar services.

 

[py_megapixel]

It sure was a complete misfire to ruin an otherwise great train with that interior, especially seeing how much better c2c's are despite working similar services.

aren't C2C's in fact identical to GA's given they were ordered in the same batch?

 

[Dspatula]

The 195 is a decent compromise for units that work anything from a 2 hour fast to Windermere to a 25 minute Rose Hill stopper. A bit like the 196 though different in implementation.

For EMUs that will only work urban and local services the higher density, more standee layout of the 730/0 is probably better.

3+2 has largely gone in the bin and rightly so. Narrow 2+2 with a very wide aisle is better for commuter trains as it enables a very high standee load.

Personally I think 2+1 seating would be the way to go on EMU routes especially anything going to Manchester Airport would give the standing space for peak times without compromising the off peak experience and gives more space for luggage.
730 is the most reasonable off the shelf option, but it would be nice the have something that can fit 7 cars into the 158metre limit at Salford Crescent.

 

[rmHawk765]

aren't C2C's in fact identical to GA's given they were ordered in the same batch?

I believe it is slightly different with considerably more 2+2 seating but honestly having reviewed it now I did forget about the interiors a little, so you are partially correct - sorry.

 

[skyhigh]

I'm not sure the coach numbers were ever actually used for anything - Northern services don't have reserved seating and I never heard any staff announce anything by coach number. I must admit I hadn't noticed that they were on the displays in the first place and I'm not sure why they were removed.

When the trains were ordered the CAF units were planned to work "Northern Connect" services which would have had seat reservations and therefore needed coach letters. They were displayed from new in readiness.

The Connect plan was permanently killed off so when the PIS controller/software was replaced last year the functionality wasn't replicated as it had zero practical use.

 

[Class 323 Fan]

When the trains were ordered the CAF units were planned to work "Northern Connect" services which would have had seat reservations and therefore needed coach letters. They were displayed from new in readiness.

The Connect plan was permanently killed off so when the PIS controller/software was replaced last year the functionality wasn't replicated as it had zero practical use.

May be off topic, but Also, any reason why Trisha Jarman announcement were removed, the new ones sound horrible

 

[AlastairFraser]

The 195 is a decent compromise for units that work anything from a 2 hour fast to Windermere to a 25 minute Rose Hill stopper. A bit like the 196 though different in implementation.

For EMUs that will only work urban and local services the higher density, more standee layout of the 730/0 is probably better.

3+2 has largely gone in the bin and rightly so. Narrow 2+2 with a very wide aisle is better for commuter trains as it enables a very high standee load.

The 196 interior colour scheme and ambience is an improvement over the 195, and hopefully any 19x-like interior preserves those improvements.
I don't know if Northern will go for several different interiors, if they don't this interior is the best compromise as you said.

 

[Dspatula]

Have a very rough mock up of an Aventra with low doors I never really finished. The tables are just indicative and I don't have the artistic talent to put the right cab on it

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd want some airline seats, but this sort of thing is what I'm largely expecting, though probably more likely for the accessible coach to be the middle one on a three car and one of the middle ones on a four so wheelchair users are not having to quickly move along the platform if the unit is the opposite way round to what is expected. Under the pantograph is common and not a bad bet because it means the lack of overhead luggage storage is less of an issue, as a wheelchair user wouldn't be able to use such storage anyway.

Having seen what you get on a UK unit which is fully low floor (clumsy layouts, internal ramps and narrowing at foot level affecting aisle side comfort), I'm more in favour of partial low floor in the manner of this design.

 

[Class 323 Fan]

Have a very rough mock up of an Aventra with low doors I never really finished. The tables are just indicative and I don't have the artistic talent to put the right cab on it
View attachment 195839

They won't be all table, thinks it's 50:50 for tables

 

[Dspatula]

I'd want some airline seats, but this sort of thing is what I'm largely expecting, though probably more likely for the accessible coach to be the middle one on a three car and one of the middle ones on a four so wheelchair users are not having to quickly move along the platform if the unit is the opposite way round to what is expected. Under the pantograph is common and not a bad bet because it means the lack of overhead luggage storage is less of an issue, as a wheelchair user wouldn't be able to use such storage anyway.

Having seen what you get on a UK unit which is fully low floor (clumsy layouts, internal ramps and narrowing at foot level affecting aisle side comfort), I'm more in favour of partial low floor in the manner of this design.

The bays were just indicate window alignment I just never got round to doing an airline version. I don't think I've seen a UK unit with pantograph in the middle of the carriage so couldn't say how possible that is. The layout above is a quick shortened version of a 7 car unit there definitely wouldn't be space for all the equipment on a 3 car unit with low floors at both ends, I wouldn't be that surprised if anything that isn't a flirt would have be at least 4 carriages to fit everything on. I do think only having the one low door on a train might cause as many problems as it solves as the accessible area is got the end up filled with bikes, pushchairs and luggage even more so than it already does.

Anyway here's middle car I made never got round to doing a 2 door cab so you'll have those and the airline seats. Mostly I'd be expecting something very similar to a 4 car 331 with the trailer car replaced with something like this and the current accessible toilet replaced with a standard one.