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Riots in Birmingham/London/Manchester etc

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WestCoast

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People that are perceived as kind are considered weak, interested in serious subjects as boring, and being materialistic is everything. And because an interest in serious subjects (like education) is boring, this is why the morons take, especially when they live in the fantasy world of violent films and advertising.

Very interesting point. These people need an interest, that doesn't involve rap music, aggression, robbing and causing misery.

I too am getting annoyed with a few people (not on this forum), who are sort of justifying what they are doing because they are living "tough lives".

It came from this interview, some people are calling this guy the voice of the youth....:roll:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=biJgILxGK0o&feature=player_embedded
 
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SS4

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Nope there's many people in their 30s and 40s involved, some with jobs like teaching assistants or graphic designers. I suspect it has more to do with attitudes than poverty. People that live through the fantasy world of the media/advertising, who are increasingly out for themselves, and saw this as an opportunity to have some fun/grab what they could.

This is headline news throughout the world, these people have brought shame on all of us, we are seen as an aggressive, hedonistic, materialistic nation as it is.

The sad part about it is I suspect many of these uncouth morons actually feel no shame at all.

I know, I was trying to debunk the news' latest vilification of youth.



all you leftie scum sympathisers need to shut the f*ck up RIGHT NOW.

You all bleat on about how there must be some deeper underlying cause and it would be better to understand it.

Actually, the right destroyed the social and family unit in order to make money so they can stfu pretending they're whiter than white which is what certain elements want anyway!

Many of us on the left know that this is criminal behaviour and want to see law and order on the streets so stop implying everyone who is left of centre supports these turds.
 

Hydro

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I too am getting annoyed with a few people (not on this forum), who are sort of justifying what they are doing because they are living "tough lives".

I cannot make the link between having a tough life and rioting, unless your food supply has been cut off by an oppressive government. It's a way of thinking problem, not the life they lead per se. As I've said before, there's no anger being directed at those that could be construed to have caused this "tough life". Diesel clothes, O2 and Currys have no part to play in making Tottenham a crap hole.

I find it interesting, and accurate, that a lot of "poor" areas still do well for fashionable clothes and electrical goods.
 

SS4

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And people wonder why we have created an underclass in this society :roll:

I've found it's many on the right (I include New Labour in this designation) that have never needed to rely on benefits, never been financially insecure that bleat that out to push down benefits so they can have even more money.

This picture sums up attitudes to unemployment quite well: http://imgur.com/gallery/1W3yl
 

HST Power

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I couldn't care less if these rioters have had tough lives. Life is mean and nasty. They aren't the only ones who get a tough time, it happens to millions of people every day in all parts of the world. But you'll never succeed in life if you don't pull your finger out and try to do something about it. So to be honest, if they've had a tough time, that's just too bad. Trashing shops and burning down buildings will do nothing to help them. I tried explaining this to one of my friends (who I am quite sure has been rioting) and she went off into a monologue about how the Government were scum and she couldn't wait for Judgement day. Well good luck to her on Judgement day is she thinks this sort of thing is acceptable. I hope the law hammers the lot of them.
 

All Line Rover

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Try it before you condemn!

Whilst I don't wish to generalise (I, for example, may end up on benefits for a short while if I am unable to find a job - although I sincerely hope that this won't happen), a significant proportion of people on benefits seem to be lazy people who don't want a job.

If they can't write a CV and a job application without spelling mistakes, do they really expect an employer to hire them? If they use bad language or dress poorly, do they really expect an employer to hire them? If they tell a prospective employer at a job interview that they're only there because "the job centre told them to go," do they really expect to be hired? !!!
 

4SRKT

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Apologies for another cross-post, but this is another from a Police officer who has been involved in the rioting, and seems relevant.



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

KL6VB.gif

:D

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Three confirmed dead in Birmingham.


Would it be possible to have this post deleted, and the poster EDMC banned?
 

WestCoast

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Whilst I don't wish to generalise (I, for example, may end up on benefits for a short while if I am unable to find a job - although I sincerely hope that this won't happen), a significant proportion of people on benefits seem to be lazy people who don't want a job.


Benefits exist for a very good reason, and it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that a fair proportion of the claimants have legitimate reasons for claiming them, for example they can't work becuase they are caring for someone, or they are actively looking for work and struggling to find it. However, it's clear that certain people don't fit that criteria and are just being lazy. There is a group of people who take advantage of the system because of the amount of kids they have. Of course, it would be grossly unfair to say that it applies to every benefit claimant.
 

90019

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Would it be possible to have this post deleted, and the poster EDMC banned?

He is not on this forum, but is on one where posts do not get deleted, especially where there are differing opinions, and where people only get banned for multiple registrations and spamming.

He is also one of the thousands of Police officers who have been dealing with the scum who have been destroying other people's property for the fun of it.
 
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Metroland

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The significant proportion is simply right wing propaganda designed to keep those unlucky enough to be out of work as an underclass.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree, it's far too easy and intellectually lazy to get into Daily Mail speak and start blaming people on benefits/working class/black/young as an homogeneous group. Sterotyping is unhelpful and unfair.

And just for balance, it equally annoys me Guardian speak confusing the working class with Chavs or the underclass too. (There you go Old Timer!)

The only thing that binds these rioters is the mentality they share it seems.
 

DarloRich

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What about those who wind up on benefits through no fault of their own? People like the Bombardier workers who, according to you, will shortly "do absolutely nothing" and "contribute absolutely nothing to society" when they get made redundant? Many of them will be of an age where they'll be too old to get another job no matter how hard they try.

I spent nearly a year on the dole. I was a victim of the economic problems at the time. (09) I had a good, professional job, worked very hard and paid taxes. I got £47 per week on the dole. Plus my housing benefit which meant that I didn’t become homeless as well as jobless. It didn’t cover the rent but you juggle things to try and stay afloat. You can’t of course, but you try to avoid drowning as long as possible. Your savings don’t last long while you try, like a good person, to meet all of your financial responsibilities. (Which were planned and manageable on a professional wage)

I got a new job at the other end of the country, i moved house, moved away from my friends, and it cost me a relationship. Something like that does change your opinion of things.

I can quite understand how easy it could be to steal a loaf of bread when you have no money left or anything left to eat. I was in that position and did without food rather than steal. I can also quite easily see how someone who has never been in that position has no understanding of the real pressure you face.

Do you have to choose between having the light on or your tea? I doubt it. Do you have to choose between having the heating on in the winter or having the light on at night? There are many people in this country who do.

Now that doesn’t excuse the loutish criminal behaviour displayed by these idiots. It is wrong and many of them (but not all) will be caught and punished.
 

Oswyntail

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......
However, you can only spell correctly if you have had a decent education. Not everyone gets a nice smug, safe, secure, stable middle class education......
That is utter rubbish, the sort of rubbish that (indirectly) leads to some of what we are talking about here. Blame the "education system", not the children who don't work, the parents who don't support or help them, the teachers who don't correct "trivial" mistakes. By implication, you suggest there is such a thing as a "working class" education. Pray explain what that involves that gets in the way of learning how to spell!
 

WestCoast

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Also whether the kids actually make use of, and pay attention to, their education. It doesn't have to be "middle class" to teach you how to spell, I think personalities like Lord Sugar would have something to say about that.

Perhaps the UK education system is too general, when kids should be lead down paths, be it a vocational education or towards higher eduction earlier on?
 

Greenback

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That is utter rubbish, the sort of rubbish that (indirectly) leads to some of what we are talking about here. Blame the "education system", not the children who don't work, the parents who don't support or help them, the teachers who don't correct "trivial" mistakes. By implication, you suggest there is such a thing as a "working class" education. Pray explain what that involves that gets in the way of learning how to spell!

Well if teachers don't correct small mistakes clearly the education system is not doing the job of educating children correctly.
 

Class172

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Also whether the kids actually make use of, and pay attention to, their education. It doesn't have to be "middle class" to teach you how to spell, I think personalities like Lord Sugar would have something to say about that.
And then at the other end if the spectrum, there's the few people who have the best education possible and yet, as soon as they've finished education, they completely waste themselves - surely their parents would be dissapointed; wouldn't they try to stop it though?
 

Greenback

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Keeping on topic :p, do you think the riots have quieted down and do you think they will return to London?

I don't know. I don't think it's possible to predict what will happen next.

It may be that those involved in one way or another will get bored of it and decide its pointless after all.

On the other hand, they may wait a couple of days, and then start again when the police are not so ready.

Another alternative is that it will all flare up again as a result of something that happens locally.
 

chris89

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Well to try to go back onto topic.

From the beeb live news feed.

'1521:

The Birmingham Bullring will close at 16:00 BST as a precautionary measure. Additional security measures will be in place, including fully-trained protection dogs to safeguard the malls and surrounding areas. '

An very sensible thing to do also this:

1631:

The Association of Chief Police Officers - which is co-ordinating the transfer of police officers, police dogs, horses and other riot equipment and vehicles between forces in England and Wales - says six forces have requested assistance tonight.

They are: Avon and Somerset; Gloucestershire; Greater Manchester Police; Metropolitan Police; Nottinghamshire and West Midlands.

Assistance is being provided by 51 police forces across the UK.

Chris
 

DarloRich

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That is utter rubbish, the sort of rubbish that (indirectly) leads to some of what we are talking about here. Blame the "education system", not the children who don't work, the parents who don't support or help them, the teachers who don't correct "trivial" mistakes. By implication, you suggest there is such a thing as a "working class" education. Pray explain what that involves that gets in the way of learning how to spell!

That is exactly the point I make. Many people DONT have all of the things you refer to above. Things are easier if, like me, you come from a nice secure middle ( perhaps even upper middle) class environment where you are nurtured, supported and encouraged.

Lots of people don’t get that. My point is that those of us who do have to look at WHY many people DONT get that help and support. Why do many people think that it isn’t worth bothering at school? Why don’t parents control their kids more often? Why cant the education system inspire people to better their lives?

it is far too easy, as many people do, simply to write off large sections of our society as chavs or scum without identifying the underlying causes and trying to do something about them. It is far too easy to have all the answers when you haven’t the experience of living in that situation.
 

DarloRich

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Well to try to go back onto topic.

From the beeb live news feed.

'1521:

The Birmingham Bullring will close at 16:00 BST as a precautionary measure. Additional security measures will be in place, including fully-trained protection dogs to safeguard the malls and surrounding areas. '

An very sensible thing to do also this:

1631:

The Association of Chief Police Officers - which is co-ordinating the transfer of police officers, police dogs, horses and other riot equipment and vehicles between forces in England and Wales - says six forces have requested assistance tonight.

They are: Avon and Somerset; Gloucestershire; Greater Manchester Police; Metropolitan Police; Nottinghamshire and West Midlands.

Assistance is being provided by 51 police forces across the UK.

Chris

North Yorkshire Police supplied officers to help Greater Manchester Police last night ( I think Durham may also have done so)
 

chris89

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Message apparntly making it's way on BBM

‘everyman keep off the road tonight, Birmingham is going to be madness, people from london, leicester, derby, manchester to f**k up birmingham of them 3 asian guys that got killed in winson green there coming to riot hard and i don’t want no one to lose their life because of it, stay in your yards and pass this on’

From here: http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/

Chris
 

londonmidland

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Message apparntly making it's way on BBM

‘everyman keep off the road tonight, Birmingham is going to be madness, people from london, leicester, derby, manchester to f**k up birmingham of them 3 asian guys that got killed in winson green there coming to riot hard and i don’t want no one to lose their life because of it, stay in your yards and pass this on’

From here: http://birminghamriots2011.tumblr.com/

Chris

Omg, this is gonna get serious!
 

deaftech

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Sorry but I disagree. I know many young people who play horribly violent games such as Grand Theft Auto or whatever it's called and lead perfectly normal lives. Besides, it's the parent's responsibility to ensure that what their child sees in front of a screen does not get replicated in real life.
It may be associated with the recent riots but the cause is plainly clear: there's an underclass, or a section, of society that feels that they are answerable to no-one because, as we've all seen, the police are too ineffectual.

Or is it because they are so alienated they just don't care. I must say I am getting feed up with all this blaming of the police. It is successive governments over the past 32 years who are responsible for the social situation that has resulted in these riots.
 

AlterEgo

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These scenes really depress me to be honest. I do fear for some people who live in Birmingham, especially with the rumour that the murders of those three Asian fellas might be avenged.
 

Greenback

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These scenes really depress me to be honest. I do fear for some people who live in Birmingham, especially with the rumour that the murders of those three Asian fellas might be avenged.

This is one of the things I fear. An escalation because of what has already happened.

It might also be that having drawn the police into certain areas, other areas will be attacked instead.
 

WestCoast

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Yes, and why not? It all helps. I don't know how we would manage otherwise!

Reign in spending a bit, cut holidays e.t.c? Obviously if competitions and eBay work and make you money, good for you...;)
____________________________________________________________________________________
Anyway, moving away from that lengthy diversion, it seems that Birmingham is going to suffer at the hands of these thugs tonight, yet again, it's appalling.
 

imagination

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So riots lead to some people dying, meaning that others feel the need to riot in order to protest their deaths?

Am I mistaken or is there more than just a touch of irony there?
 

SS4

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These scenes really depress me to be honest. I do fear for some people who live in Birmingham, especially with the rumour that the murders of those three Asian fellas might be avenged.

Agreed, although trouble in Handsworth is nothing new. I reckon West Midlands will go to Handsworth and the very centre of town and the peripheral parts of the county covered by forces such as West Mercia.

More depressing is that the police need to protect the children's hospital :|
 
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