Potential alternative sub class numbers for the Northern fleet?

[Class 323 Fan]

So, totals for phases 1 and 2 could be (subclasses not official)
Class 382/3 46
Class 382/4 16 (total 62)

Class 780/3 78
Class 780/4 83 (total 161)

Class 781/4 32

mods note - split from this thread

I’m aware these aren’t official, but wouldn’t it make sense for subclasses to be like this:

382/0
382/1

780/0
780/1

781/1

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I’m aware these aren’t official, but wouldn’t it make sense for subclasses to be like this:
382/0, 382/1, 780/0, 780/1, 781/1

Either could be possible,
/0 and counting up is more common, but the 755s are /3 for 3 car and /4 for 4 car.

Same with 458s (/4 and /5), 701s (/5 5 cars, /0 10 car ), original 720 plan (/1 10 car, /5 5 car)

 

[D6975]

I’m aware these aren’t official, but wouldn’t it make sense for subclasses to be like this:

382/0
382/1

780/0
780/1

781/1

Or you could go old school, 382/0, 382/1, 780/2, 780/3, 781/4.

 

[D365]

One of Northern's requirements is that an MMU (Class 780) can be converted to BEMU (Class 781) or EMU (Class 382). So the application of subclasses may hinge on whether or not units are numbered consecutively - see Class 378 and Class 710.

 

[david l]

Much too early for all this, the business case hasn't even been signed off yet. If it is signed off, the 'first' introduction date has already slipped into 2031 from 2030, would suggest there will be more slippage than this, looking at slippage elsewhere could be 2034 or 2035 and there is plenty time for even more changes of class number by then.
If I was in Northern management, I'd be concentrating on ensuring that enough 'heritage' units can be transferred from other areas to supplement the existing units, and to ensure that a 7 day a week railway can be run in Northernland.

 

[Class 323 Fan]

One of Northern's requirements is that an MMU (Class 780) can be converted to BEMU (Class 781) or EMU (Class 382). So the application of subclasses may hinge on whether or not units are numbered consecutively - see Class 378 and Class 710.

If design wise is the same (if ordered by the same manufacturer) then they can be converted into a 382

 

[david l]

If design wise is the same (if ordered by the same manufacturer) then they can be converted into a 382

Just like a 319 into a 769???

 

[Class 323 Fan]

Just like a 319 into a 769???

Yes

 

[david l]

Yes

Really. With the same level of success??

 

[pokemonsuper9]

One of Northern's requirements is that an MMU (Class 780) can be converted to BEMU (Class 781) or EMU (Class 382). So the application of subclasses may hinge on whether or not units are numbered consecutively - see Class 378 and Class 710.

That wouldn't work nicely, there's more than 100 units
on that system the phase 1 numbers would be

382001 - 12
780213 - 61
780362 - 426
781427 - 35

It overflows and you'd end up running over 100, which isn't an issue in itself (see 450s and 68s), but it would kind of ruin the idea that the subclas tells you the type/class like you get with 745/755 and 150/(153/155)/156/158.

If design wise is the same (if ordered by the same manufacturer) then they can be converted into a 382

Just like a 319 into a 769???

Yes

Really. With the same level of success??

Yes, the 769s was adding all the stuff required for diesel operation to a 40 year old design, these would be built from the start as capable of being changed.
If a FLIRT (e.g. 231) design was chosen, it would just be swapping out one of the 4 modules that are diesels into batteries, or removing them (would anything go in those spots in pure EMU mode?).

 

[rattyben]

Much too early for all this, the business case hasn't even been signed off yet. If it is signed off, the 'first' introduction date has already slipped into 2031 from 2030, would suggest there will be more slippage than this, looking at slippage elsewhere could be 2034 or 2035 and there is plenty time for even more changes of class number by then.
If I was in Northern management, I'd be concentrating on ensuring that enough 'heritage' units can be transferred from other areas to supplement the existing units, and to ensure that a 7 day a week railway can be run in Northernland.

I’m not yet convinced an order will ever be placed and definitely not for 450 stated units.

 

[Class 323 Fan]

I’m not yet convinced an order will ever be placed and definitely not for 450 stated units.

At the moment I think it's to replace all units apart from 170s (no plan made for replacement) and the Civity trains.

All the legacy units will be going, then they will be options for an extra 120 units bringing it to 450, think that's so they can operate services that they got rid of, the old Northern Rail routes return, before arriva scrapped some of them.

We’ll have to see, but that's the plan at the minute, not sure why they've pushed it back to 2031