LM 150s overheating internally

[northwichcat]

http://www.sundaymercury.net/news/m...p-because-of-faulty-heaters-66331-29191105/2/

The LM response is along the lines of don't worry as we're getting brand new trains with air conditioning to replace these horrible old trains.

 

[tom1649]

150 Sprinters have always been hot trains. The simple solution is to open all the saloon windows.

They aren't horrible old trains, when maintained properly they are solidly built workhorses.

 

[387star]

Looking at the article will LM definately be keeping some 150s as I believe there will be no follow on order now?

 

[Class172]

I believe there will be no follow on order now?

Nothing's been said about it has there?

 

[northwichcat]

What's interesting is the article says LM will keep some 150s although does mention a number of units or that DfT have approved LM keeping some 150s. DfT previously said whichever operator had the most demand for the unallocated 150s would get them and made clear LM weren't any more likely to get them because they have them currently as the 172s are replacing them.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The LM response is along the lines of don't worry as we're getting brand new trains with air conditioning to replace these horrible old trains.

It's a pretty good response though, isnt it?

Newspaper: "We dont like the faulty heaters on your trains."

London Midland: "How about we replace the entire fleet within a few weeks?"

 

[BestWestern]

I'm slightly baffled by this, and LM's response in particular. The 'hot air fans' can be isolated in each coach simply by switching out a circuit breaker on the cab bulkhead, we do it on ours all the time - and they were off on the the former LM 150126 when I worked it the other day. Unless some of their sets have been modified, which I very much doubt?!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

I'm slightly baffled by this, and LM's response in particular. The 'hot air fans' can be isolated in each coach simply by switching out a circuit breaker on the cab bulkhead, we do it on ours all the time - and they were off on the the former LM 150126 when I worked it the other day. Unless some of their sets have been modified, which I very much doubt?!

This is nothing new in LM land, I call them the travelling Saunas during the summer months!!!

 

[Donny Dave]

Can we have them up here running around for Northern please?

Travelling in a Pacer or 15x with no heating in the middle of winter is no fun ....

 

[150001]

Yeah, the 150s are very good in the Winter, however the summer months can sometimes be very hot, as the heating virtually always on....

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Can we have them up here running around for Northern please?

You are most welcome to them
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's interesting is the article says LM will keep some 150s although does mention a number of units or that DfT have approved LM keeping some 150s. DfT previously said whichever operator had the most demand for the unallocated 150s would get them and made clear LM weren't any more likely to get them because they have them currently as the 172s are replacing them.

Not any less likely either

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Can we have them up here running around for Northern please?

Travelling in a Pacer or 15x with no heating in the middle of winter is no fun ....

You have our blessing...take the 139s too whilst your at it!

 

[150001]

Oh come on, don't insult the 139s, they are performing well and I like them.

 

[Tomonthetrain]

I have to use them on my commute from work and put it this was...a 142s better!

 

[DarloRich]

What's interesting is the article says LM will keep some 150s although does mention a number of units or that DfT have approved LM keeping some 150s. DfT previously said whichever operator had the most demand for the unallocated 150s would get them and made clear LM weren't any more likely to get them because they have them currently as the 172s are replacing them.

becuase LM still need some for certain services , such as the Marston Vale where the 172 isnt suitable and a 153 is to small.

TBH i dont find the 150's a bad train, they are a bit careworn but for roasting /broken air con you cant beat the Mkiii i had on GC the other day. It was a declasified first class carriage at the front of the train. It was boiling!

 

[northwichcat]

becuase LM still need some for certain services , such as the Marston Vale where the 172 isnt suitable and a 153 is to small.

Why aren't 172s suitable? - They have SDO so platform lengths at some stations isn't an issue.

As far as DfT are concerned (from information released under FoI Act) LM have ordered 172s which will allow 172s to replace all their 150s. If they need want to keep 150s for extra capacity then they need to prove that they need that extra capacity more than other operators before they will be allowed to retain any 150s.

 

[DarloRich]

Why aren't 172s suitable? - They have SDO so platform lengths at some stations isn't an issue.

As far as DfT are concerned (from information released under FoI Act) LM have ordered 172s which will allow 172s to replace all their 150s. If they need want to keep 150s for extra capacity then they need to prove that they need that extra capacity more than other operators before they will be allowed to retain any 150s.

apparently not - LM are expecting to retain some 150 units for these services, amoungst others. Is there not also some problem with only being able to use one door on some platforms.

I am not complaining - i will happily have a brand new inter regional train on my little line! (just dont expect to get one!)

 

[Blindtraveler]

scotrails 150s now at ATW were plagued with heater problems regularly too so its not unheard of outside of LM land. As to them keeping some, gready? The capacity is needed elsewhere!

 

[DarloRich]

i dont think it is greed - there is some reason why they cant use the 172 on some of thier services ( and frustratingly i cant recall what it is!)

BTW - they always seem ok down here the 150's - not to hot or to cold and they have opening windows which always helps!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

scotrails 150s now at ATW were plagued with heater problems regularly too so its not unheard of outside of LM land. As to them keeping some, gready? The capacity is needed elsewhere!

The capacity is needed everywhere, the idea of all the 150's leaving LM was based on an add on order of twenty six 172 vehicles which seems to have disappeared with the Government spending review. Therefore the cake now has to be cut into thinner slices.

There is some confusion regarding the ALL statement as well, in many documents it says the 172s will replace all of the 150s ON THE SNOW HILL LINES. Thats not the same is it.

 

[Blindtraveler]

true. Be good for all concerned if they would make up therf mind one way or another

 

[Old Hill Bank]

We would all like a definitive answer and perhaps soon we will know.
One thing seems to be certain is that LM, NO, GW and EMT will all gain something out of it.

I'm just annoyed at some posters who think stealing much needed dmu capacity from the West Midlands is a viable solution to a national problem.

 

[Class172]

We would all like a definitive answer and perhaps soon we will know.
One thing seems to be certain is that LM, NO, GW and EMT will all gain something out of it.

I'm just annoyed at some posters who think stealing much needed dmu capacity from the West Midlands is a viable solution to a national problem.

We definitely need more capacity - most peak services need to be at least 4/5 carriages.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

We definitely need more capacity - most peak services need to be at least 4/5 carriages.

I think that's a bit optimistic, there will still be several 3-car diagrams even with the 172 fleet dedicated to the Snow Hill jobs Monday to Friday.

 

[Orange Box]

The change in rolling stock for each franchise under these agreements is as follows:
- LM will retain six Class 150 carriages (but release two x Class 153 carriages to FGW);
- FGW will receive four Class 150 carriages (and 2 x Class 153 carriages from LM)
- Northern will receive eight Class 150 carriages from LM and 14 x Class 142 carriages cascaded from FGW.
- There are eight Class 150 carriages becoming surplus in London Midland which are not covered by the agreements with these TOCs. These trains are non-standard units that may subsequently be sought by another TOC, PTE or local authority for additional services.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releases/dft-press-20110810

The eight unallocated vehicles presumably being 150001/002 and the two 522xx carriages

 

[northwichcat]

The change in rolling stock for each franchise under these agreements is as follows:
- LM will retain six Class 150 carriages (but release two x Class 153 carriages to FGW);
- FGW will receive four Class 150 carriages (and 2 x Class 153 carriages from LM)
- Northern will receive eight Class 150 carriages from LM and 14 x Class 142 carriages cascaded from FGW.
- There are eight Class 150 carriages becoming surplus in London Midland which are not covered by the agreements with these TOCs. These trains are non-standard units that may subsequently be sought by another TOC, PTE or local authority for additional services.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releases/dft-press-20110810

The eight unallocated vehicles presumably being 150001/002 and the two 522xx carriages

Is it just me who thinks some LM carriages are disappearing in to thin air:

Currently (after reforming) there is:
24x150/1s
7x150/2s
2x150/0s
a mismatched 150/2

It states the latter two are excluded from the figures given so that gives 31x2 car 150s to allocate.

Additional carriages:
FGW get 4 (2x150s)
Northern get 4 (2x150s)
LM get 4 (2x150s)

Replacement carriages:
FGW get 14 to replace 142s (7x150s)
Northern get 8 to replace EMT bound 156s (4x150s)
Northern get 12* to replace 180s (6x150s)
LM get 2 to replace FGW bound 153s (1x150)

That's a total of 24x150s allocated and 7x150s unallocated (plus the mismatched units)

* As stated in previous release

 

[Class172]

I think that's a bit optimistic, there will still be several 3-car diagrams even with the 172 fleet dedicated to the Snow Hill jobs Monday to Friday.

No, I didn't say I think there will be, I said there ought to be that many.

I wonder who will be first to grab up those unallocated units, LM, FGW, Northern or someone else??

 

[Blindtraveler]

think ATW may be interested perhaps?
Sorry if offence was caused earlier

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Is it just me who thinks some LM carriages are disappearing in to thin air:

Currently (after reforming) there is:
24x150/1s
7x150/2s
2x150/0s
a mismatched 150/2

It states the latter two are excluded from the figures given so that gives 31x2 car 150s to allocate.

Additional carriages:
FGW get 4 (2x150s)
Northern get 4 (2x150s)
LM get 4 (2x150s)

Replacement carriages:
FGW get 14 to replace 142s (7x150s)
Northern get 8 to replace EMT bound 156s (4x150s)
Northern get 12* to replace 180s (6x150s)
LM get 2 to replace FGW bound 153s (1x150)

That's a total of 24x150s allocated and 7x150s unallocated (plus the mismatched units)

* As stated in previous release

There are Eight 150/2s plus the two odd 57 cars

Check this out

Working on this announcement ignores what has previously happened/been agreed:

LM have/had 72 vehicles

Four have recently gone to FGW
Eighteen are pledged to FGW under a previous agreement
Twenty Four are pledged to Northern under a previous agreement
Four more to FGW
Eight more to Northern
Six stay at LM

Eight unallocated

Total 72

 

[northwichcat]

Might be best to continue 150 cascade discussion in this thread: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=762867#post762867 so that we don't keep repeating the same points.