Storm Goretti disruption - 8/9 January 2026

[Hunccy]

I think, what people would like to see is Network Rail identifying a train might become stuck, and then employing countermeasures - rather than going "nah, not worth the bother"

Risk of trees on the line? Put a crew of workman on the train with chainsaws.

Risk of snow? Attach plough to front of train.

There is no "can do" attitude anywhere in this country any more: just people giving reasons why stuff can't be done, and therefore deploying no energy, or out of box thinking, to get them done.

This isn't just limited to the railway - its a general criticism of the nation we've evolved into.

We're so in love with SoPs that we have zero adaptability - don't get me wrong, I understand why: in an era where trying and failing results in a court case or public enquiry, why try?

Excuses like “preventing” passengers or stock being stranded run hollow since trains run in both directions for a whole day before any storm arrived. I researched my one way trip The day before so wasn’t going to be stranded anywhere.
This evading trouble ethos doesn’t work. The unwary will always be caught out no matter what the BBC and railways do. The worst example is brave RNLI and Mountain rescue teams v TikTok non swimmers in flip-flops on mountains.
Staying off topic. This country can’t cope even with normal winter weather whilst there is a war in Europe which is coming our way…

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Jan 2026 ==

Where are we conjuring this apparently endless supply of people with chainsaws from?

Population is near 70 million and massive unemployment esp amongst the young (fit and keen !!!?)

 

[DDB]

At my house in Nottingham there is no snow. I'm on a bus elsewhere but still in Nottingham and there is a couple of inches. So it is very localised and just because there isn't much snow where you are doesn't mean there isn't any really quite close by. Throw a hill into the mix and the variation will be even higher.

Having said that I would like to know why EMR aren't running Nottingam to Derby shuttles. I get they can't run East or West beyond those points as the lines are closed but they are running both Derby and Nottingham to London so the other two sides of Trent Junction are open and usable?

 

[Falcon1200]

16cm overnight in central Leeuwarden with some drifting. -7 overnight rising to -1 today (but -8 with windchill) with persistent heavy snow showers {triple snowflake icon) from around 10am until at least 8pm. Winds gusting to 45mph. Presumably a bit worse outside the urban area.

So, as I said, more snow, and colder. And 2tph.

Thanks.

How do NS maintain the service (not sure whether the 2tph is the normal timetable or if reduced, by how much), in such conditions?

Risk of trees on the line? Put a crew of workman on the train with chainsaws.

On which train, or rather trains? And whose workmen, from where?

Risk of snow? Attach plough to front of train.

To what train? Today's fleet does not have snowplough attachments!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also yes to this, it's definitely not Birmingham in any sense other than the rail network. You can't even get a bus across the border very easily.

It's close enough to Birmingham to be Birmingham for taxi purposes too. Birmingham has a huge number of Ubers, getting say fifty of them to Bromsgrove would not be hard provided the roads were at all passable (and I think there are a lot of non-drivers here who don't have an appreciation of when roads are passable in a car even if they may not be in a bus or coach - having front wheel drive makes driving in snow and ice much, much easier - rear wheel drive is far, far worse on slippy roads and almost all if not all buses/coaches are rear wheel drive). It wouldn't be cheap but it would not be hard either.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Excuses like “preventing” passengers or stock being stranded run hollow since trains run in both directions for a whole day before any storm arrived.

I think deciding to close the Hope Valley early yesterday evening was sensible enough given the geography. Nobody was going to be stranded, trains could get back to depots, the forecast was for deteriorating weather, and there was sufficient time for people to get home.

It appears that the snow in the Hope Valley is minimal and a full service could have operated today, if only they'd held off making the decision. But since they've already made their decision nothing will run today because of "adverse weather", despite the minimal snow and the improving weather forecast. The decision is even more laughable on the Glossop line.

As I've said, I genuinely don't understand why Network Rail were so determined to make that decision about today so far in advance. Whatever happened to looking out of the window in a morning and deciding based on what your eyes show you? It is very hard for me to escape the conclusion that it was simply operationally more convenient for them.

 

[btdrawer]

Apparently the Dutch have been having their own version of this conversation (from The Guardian):

This week, according to the motor trade association Bovag, cars have been skidding off the roads partly because drivers failed to put on their winter tyres in October. The national airline, KLM, had to rush a truck to Germany to get 100,000 litres of de-icing fluid after it ran out, the spokesperson Elvira van der Vis said. ProRail, the rail infrastructure operator, spent much time explaining to angry commuters why trains kept being delayed – while Switzerland was managing just fine.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

All routes from Chester appear to be working (with some cancellations), except that from Wrexham to Shrewsbury.
Some trains via Shrewsbury appear to have diverted via Crewe (but not the Holyhead-Cardiff Mk4 set which was cancelled).
The Avanti Wrexham starter (805) which forms a Crewe-Carlisle via Settle did operate (1K88/1Z88).

 

[D1511]

Can you share your source for this?

Current webcams over most of the netherlands show a max of 2-5cm of snow, with a lot of that from previous days, with some areas having no lying snow.

Current temperatures are showing as 3 degrees and max wind gusts of 40 knots in gronigen.

Leeuwarden weather here from The Met Office Website
Here
You are either looking at some very optimistic websites, or just the ones that suit your narrative.

There's also a Leeuwarden live webcam on the Oldehove tower that shows about 10cm of fresh snow overnight in the city centre.

To be clear on this again, there is no criticism of the individuals involved or the decisions they've made.......the organisational capability we now have makes these decisions more or less the only ones that could have been made. My point is all about the lack of organisational capability, and the Netherlands is a legitimate yardstick for what a modern national railway system ought to be capable of doing.

 

[cats_five]

<snip>
Population is near 70 million and massive unemployment esp amongst the young (fit and keen !!!?)

I can't see a day or two's employment doing something dangerous they know nothing about is very helpful. Also areas with OHLE and trees down might well need the OHLE fixing as well.

Training as electricians, plumbers, brickies, joiners etc. would be far more worth their time.

 

[trundlewagon]

getting say fifty of them to Bromsgrove would not be hard provided the roads were at all passable

Well, there's your problem...

Population is near 70 million and massive unemployment esp amongst the young (fit and keen !!!?)

Silly me, I thought you were being serious.

Maybe we should conscript the experts on here to manage the train service next time a storm rolls in. Clearly far more competent than the people on the ground employed to deal with this stuff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, there's your problem...

Do you drive? Taxis and private cars will be used when bus companies have long given up. In part because self employed drivers and private users have different motivations and can make their own judgements on safety, but in part also because front and four wheel drive vehicles are better on snow and ice than rear wheel drive which is usual for buses and coaches.

I wasn't there last night so I can't comment on specific roads around Bromsgrove (there is no snow here whatsoever, it's just a bit damp), but I have absolutely driven my car on roads where TOCs have claimed they were impassable and RRBs were impossible as a result and I will I am sure do many times again.

 

[muz379]

I think deciding to close the Hope Valley early yesterday evening was sensible enough given the geography. Nobody was going to be stranded, trains could get back to depots, the forecast was for deteriorating weather, and there was sufficient time for people to get home.

It appears that the snow in the Hope Valley is minimal and a full service could have operated today, if only they'd held off making the decision. But since they've already made their decision nothing will run today because of "adverse weather", despite the minimal snow and the improving weather forecast. The decision is even more laughable on the Glossop line.

As I've said, I genuinely don't understand why Network Rail were so determined to make that decision about today so far in advance. Whatever happened to looking out of the window in a morning and deciding based on what your eyes show you? It is very hard for me to escape the conclusion that it was simply operationally more convenient for them.

I can see both sides of the argument about how far in advance to warn people , some would say that waking up in the morning and only just finding out that your trains won't be running isn't good enough and that if they had known the day or night before they might have been able to make other plans.

Indeed you might have had people make journeys yesterday without thinking that trains this morning would then turn out to not be running.

I do though agree that if things dont appear to be as bad as predicted then we should reintroduce a train service as soon as possible not wait until the time that was advertised.

 

[BayPaul]

Leeuwarden weather here from The Met Office Website
Here
You are either looking at some very optimistic websites, or just the ones that suit your narrative.

There's also a Leeuwarden live webcam on the Oldehove tower that shows about 10cm of fresh snow overnight in the city centre.

To be clear on this again, there is no criticism of the individuals involved or the decisions they've made.......the organisational capability we now have makes these decisions more or less the only ones that could have been made. My point is all about the lack of organisational capability, and the Netherlands is a legitimate yardstick for what a modern national railway system ought to be capable of doing.

The Netherlands is a flat and densely populated country, with an appropriately frequent outer suburban type rail service. It would be a good yardstick for the Network Southeast area, but it really doesn't compare to rural lines in the Penines and Cornwall.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Here
You are either looking at some very optimistic websites, or just the ones that suit your narrative.

There's also a Leeuwarden live webcam on the Oldehove tower that shows about 10cm of fresh snow overnight in the city centre.

To be clear on this again, there is no criticism of the individuals involved or the decisions they've made.......the organisational capability we now have makes these decisions more or less the only ones that could have been made. My point is all about the lack of organisational capability, and the Netherlands is a legitimate yardstick for what a modern national railway system ought to be capable of doing.

No need to be rude, i merely asked you for your source of weather information, as the model i was looking at was showing less severe observations than yours.

My observations were from looking at multiple weather models, and they consistently show that the majority of the Netherlands is approximately 3-4 degrees, with the area and Gronigen and Leeuwarden being around freezing and the worst snow conditions, so using it as a yardstick for the entire country would be disingenous.

 

[D1511]

Thanks.

How do NS maintain the service (not sure whether the 2tph is the normal timetable or if reduced, by how much), in such conditions?

I'm determined not to fall out with anyone about this, especially you, and I refer to my post #429 above about different levels of organisational capability. I think they have more money and more deployable resources (human and mechanical) than we do, that enables their controllers to assess weather risks differently. There's an ethos too, as the whole thrust of Dutch transport policy is sustainable and active travel, so it is more reputationally important to ensure that public transport is kept running and seen to be a reliable alternative to private car use even in bad weather.
But I'm sure more knowledgeable Dutch members on here will be able to elaborate on this and perhaps provide more detail on the snow clearing equipment ProRail have at their disposal, but there would appear to be considerably more of it than we have. Their network is easier to manage in many respects, and less remote certainly, but levels of investment are certainly not irrelevant......

 

[bleeder4]

I wasn't there last night so I can't comment on specific roads around Bromsgrove (there is no snow here whatsoever, it's just a bit damp), but I have absolutely driven my car on roads where TOCs have claimed they were impassable and RRBs were impossible as a result and I will I am sure do many times again.

Yes, I have too. Also when going to work. At my old job I lived 20 miles from the office and I can recall two occasions when I drove in through icy and sleety roads in winter, setting off extra early to give myself plenty of time. I'd get to the office bang on time and discover that the local workers who lived less than 2 miles away hadn't turned up as they had no way of getting in apparently. It used to wind me up no end.

 

[D1511]

No need to be rude, i merely asked you for your source of weather information, as the model i was looking at was showing less severe observations than yours.

My observations were from looking at multiple weather models, and they consistently show that the majority of the Netherlands is approximately 3-4 degrees, with the area and Gronigen and Leeuwarden being around freezing and the worst snow conditions, so using it as a yardstick for the entire country would be disingenous.

Sorry I didn't mean to be.....but they have had some pretty nasty weather which is to continue today, but they didn't cancel services the day before yesterday.....

 

[YouLostAStar]

I think, what people would like to see is Network Rail identifying a train might become stuck, and then employing countermeasures - rather than going "nah, not worth the bother"

Risk of trees on the line? Put a crew of workman on the train with chainsaws.

Risk of snow? Attach plough to front of train.

There is no "can do" attitude anywhere in this country any more: just people giving reasons why stuff can't be done, and therefore deploying no energy, or out of box thinking, to get them done.

This isn't just limited to the railway - its a general criticism of the nation we've evolved into.

We're so in love with SoPs that we have zero adaptability - don't get me wrong, I understand why: in an era where trying and failing results in a court case or public enquiry, why try?

With respect you can't just "Put a crew of workmen on the train with chainsaws", if a large tree is on the line like the one I'm sending a team out to today then other equipment is needed. It also needs a specialist team rather than simply giving the regular maintenance teams some chainsaws and telling them to get on with it.
How many roving chainsaw teams would also be needed to cover all the lines potentially affected?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do though agree that if things dont appear to be as bad as predicted then we should reintroduce a train service as soon as possible not wait until the time that was advertised.

This. Northern didn't last time and some of us had a suspicion that that may have related to it being a Sunday just before Christmas. That said nothing has been brought back on their network yet, so that remains to be seen.

 

[01d-and]

It's close enough to Birmingham to be Birmingham for taxi purposes too. Birmingham has a huge number of Ubers, getting say fifty of them to Bromsgrove would not be hard provided the roads were at all passable (and I think there are a lot of non-drivers here who don't have an appreciation of when roads are passable in a car even if they may not be in a bus or coach - having front wheel drive makes driving in snow and ice much, much easier - rear wheel drive is far, far worse on slippy roads and almost all if not all buses/coaches are rear wheel drive). It wouldn't be cheap but it would not be hard either.

Indeed , during the daytime at least Bromsgrove itself has many taxis with licence plates from various parts of the West Midlands plying their trade as well as local "cabbies" trying to earn a living.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I can see both sides of the argument about how far in advance to warn people , some would say that waking up in the morning and only just finding out that your trains won't be running isn't good enough and that if they had known the day or night before they might have been able to make other plans.

Indeed you might have had people make journeys yesterday without thinking that trains this morning would then turn out to not be running.

I do though agree that if things dont appear to be as bad as predicted then we should reintroduce a train service as soon as possible not wait until the time that was advertised.

Agreed, although it should probably be pointed out that "as soon as possible" doesn't necessarily mean opening the curtains at 4am, thinking "oh, doesn't look too bad" and then blindly opening the line at start of service. You'll still want to confirm that the infrastructure is safe to operate on, and depending on the exact situation, that could mean waiting until later in the day - waiting for daylight, waiting for network rail to have suitable resources etc.

 

[Hunccy]

I can't see a day or two's employment doing something dangerous they know nothing about is very helpful. Also areas with OHLE and trees down might well need the OHLE fixing as well.

Training as electricians, plumbers, brickies, joiners etc. would be far more worth their time.

Those skilled jobs were what I was suggesting NOT letting these untrained Yoofs on a railway. They will need training soon for the “European kerfuffle”

 

[LowLevel]

I love the idea of chainsaw teams being everywhere and merriky slipping and sliding their way along the roads like it's grand. I was working in the snow a couple of years back (a foot or so I think) and my train came face to face with a large tree which luckily the driver was on the ball with and managed to stop short of. We had no hope of moving it.

The nearest available chainsaw gang was over 20 miles away and there were multiple incidents. It took over 2 hours for them to get there having walked over a mile from the access whilst we waited and we drove back to the previous unstaffed station and sat there. Luckily it was a diesel train not electric so no wires to have come down or we would have been stuck without heat in a cutting.

The kicker? It was the morning peak and the train would (half way through it's journey) have had high 2 figures or low 3 figures on board normally.

There were 6 passengers mostly travelling locally who all bar 1 got off and walked to work.

We picked the work gang back up with the train and dropped them off at their van.

The whole charade was a total waste of time.

 

[mpthomson]

Excuses like “preventing” passengers or stock being stranded run hollow since trains run in both directions for a whole day before any storm arrived. I researched my one way trip The day before so wasn’t going to be stranded anywhere.

What about all those not going on one way trips?

 

[bleeder4]

With respect you can't just "Put a crew of workmen on the train with chainsaws", if a large tree is on the line like the one I'm sending a team out to today then other equipment is needed. It also needs a specialist team rather than simply giving the regular maintenance teams some chainsaws and telling them to get on with it.
How many roving chainsaw teams would also be needed to cover all the lines potentially affected?

Heritage railways manage it fine. If a tree is blocking the line they will just send their normal P-Way team out with chainsaws. There is no need to over-complicate something with additional red tape.

 

[mpthomson]

Those skilled jobs were what I was suggesting NOT letting these untrained Yoofs on a railway. They will need training soon for the “European kerfuffle”

What 'European kerfuffle'?

 

[yoyothehobo]

With respect you can't just "Put a crew of workmen on the train with chainsaws", if a large tree is on the line like the one I'm sending a team out to today then other equipment is needed. It also needs a specialist team rather than simply giving the regular maintenance teams some chainsaws and telling them to get on with it.
How many roving chainsaw teams would also be needed to cover all the lines potentially affected?

I was thinking how many people would this require.

2 people with chainsaws
A COSS
Extra signallers to deal with the work load
possible isolation staff if the train is under OLE and the tree has come down on them
and then double up for working hours
and then multiply by number of trains etc...

It rapidly becomes a ludicrous suggestion.

Its a lot harder to work on an open railway than it used to be, with good reason.

With regards to canning the whole day of operations, thats much harder to manage and is probably a whole conversation in its own right

 

[mpthomson]

Heritage railways manage it fine. If a tree is blocking the line they will just send their normal P-Way team out with chainsaws. There is no need to over-complicate something with additional red tape.

Heritage railways are completely different, both in scale of service and risk to the general travelling public.

 

[D1511]

While I am definitely in the "we should be doing better" camp, I'd just like to distance myself from some of the daft "up and at 'em" suggestions for line clearing. We need proper equipment and capability, not a bunch of hardy souls with rudimentary tools.

 

[Straus]

"I don't have the full facts of any of the situations but I'm going to agressively assert my uniformed opinions with some pithy commentary"

Saved anyone about 10 pages of reading there....

Operations teams have a much fuller picture than the general public, they have meetings with meteorologists with very specific forecasts based on multiple weather models with the most likely selected, they are informed of the uncertainty related (i.e. they have a bit more than a cursory look at a weather app) They also have a full picture of assets at risk, they know where there are life expired systems or ones that cannot cope with certain conditions, they know where there is a history of electrical issue, drain non performance, signal box access issues etc. All of these disparate risks are considered when formulating a response.

To claim it's 'throwing in the towel' or 'H&S gone mad' is frankly disgusting against the backdrop of carmont, shap, longbedholm etc. The people involved in these decisions could ultimately be imprisoned.