Storm Goretti disruption - 8/9 January 2026

[notspy]

The hope valley is extremely susceptible to extreme weather, and still relies on ancient signalling technology and even more prone to fallen trees. As someone who's been on an absolutely full and standing service leaving Manchester very recently, the last thing you want is being trapped for hours late at night with no phone reception in a remote area due to loss of signalling capabilities or fallen trees etc.
There's also been significant TSRs in place for the long tunnels along the route due to icicles, meaning trains cannot keep to time.

 

[bramling]

Agreed. It doesn't really matter how much money you throw at it either, bus/taxi operators just won't want the risk.


The only problem with this is that - almost inevitably - the wires come down, or a tree comes down, or a landslip or whatever happens and trains get stuck and then you still can't get buses or taxis out there and you struggle to get Network Rail et al out to the incident as well.

It’s a difficult balance, but there should be some attempt to run a useable service as far as possible, in conjunction with trying to discourage as many non-essential/non-important journeys as possible, though this introduces a different problem that many people seem incapable of making a sensible judgement as to what constitutes an important journey.

“Oh great I can work at home today as it’s too dangerous to travel to work, so let’s all take the train for a day out shopping in London instead”.

I hope the ECML holds up tomorrow as looking at the weather forecast for the London area I think I’d rather be in a train than trying my chances on the road, though a lot will depend on exactly where the snow falls.

 

[driverd]

The problem is that if conditions are genuinely bad enough that trains can’t run, it’s probably not really safe nor sensible to put people in buses or taxis, and that’s assuming any operators are willing to take the risk with their assets or employees.

Hence why there should really be every effort made to run sone form of rail service at least until the point where a red warning is in force, even if it’s an emergency timetable, speed restrictions in place, etc.

The thing is, though, that trains will run. You can guarantee freight will run, possibly with diversions in place.

The reality is that, time and again, this approach taken by TOCs is less about safety and more about the inconvenience of trying to move people when the advertised timetable can't be delivered, reflecting the operational inflexibility of the railway in 2025 (eg: incompatible coupling of rolling stock, limited crew route knowledge restricting options to divert, overly rigid unit plans giving little scope to recover the following days schedule if units are out of place).

Employers wouldn't expect people not to turn in because of an amber weather warning, the railway shouldn't use this as an excuse to stop delivering.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It's a bit of a conundrum really. It's obviously not on to be leaving people genuinely stranded; but it's been pointed out before that if you keep running trains/providing alternatives right up until the point that you physically can't, people will continue to make avoidable, non-essential journeys. Needing to travel because you've otherwise got no accommodation etc is one thing - "needing" to travel because you've still decided to go out with your mates to the shops/pubs/wherever because trains were still running in the morning, only to find out that it's all gone Pete Tong in the afternoon is another.

 

[driverd]

The hope valley is extremely susceptible to extreme weather, and still relies on ancient signalling technology and even more prone to fallen trees. As someone who's been on an absolutely full and standing service leaving Manchester very recently, the last thing you want is being trapped for hours late at night with no phone reception in a remote area due to loss of signalling capabilities or fallen trees etc.
There's also been significant TSRs in place for the long tunnels along the route due to icicles, meaning trains cannot keep to time.

Which is simply unacceptable for a nationally important piece of infrastructure, being the primary rail link between the Midlands and Manchester.

Though, as someone who regularly drives this route, I feel your colouring of the tree/signalling situation is a little overdramatic - its far from the worst/most vulnerable route in the region.

 

[D1511]

The thing is, though, that trains will run. You can guarantee freight will run, possibly with diversions in place.

The reality is that, time and again, this approach taken by TOCs is less about safety and more about the inconvenience of trying to move people when the advertised timetable can't be delivered, reflecting the operational inflexibility of the railway in 2025 (eg: incompatible coupling of rolling stock, limited crew route knowledge restricting options to divert, overly rigid unit plans giving little scope to recover the following days schedule if units are out of place).

Employers wouldn't expect people not to turn in because of an amber weather warning, the railway shouldn't use this as an excuse to stop delivering.

Absolutely spot on. Well said.

 

[tumbledown]

The Railway is not an emergency service or a welfare service. Those services do exist for those genuinely in need of them.

 

[notspy]

Which is simply unacceptable for a nationally important piece of infrastructure, being the primary rail link between the Midlands and Manchester.

Though, as someone who regularly drives this route, I feel your colouring of the tree/signalling situation is a little overdramatic - its far from the worst/most vulnerable route in the region.

It's not quite as remote and outdated as some rural routes in remote Scotland however for a regional/intercity route to use AB and semaphore for a good chunk of the route, it's pretty unique. I work trains over this route pretty frequently (not saying any more for anonymity! ), and trains getting cancelled due to issues with infrastructure and weather events such as fallen trees and flooding definitely occur more frequently than other routes.

The logistics of evacuating a busy 6 carriage train from e.g. Edale when there's a snowstorm at midnight also doesn't sound too exciting (at least for the general public!)

 

[bramling]

If road transport is entirely blocked, I agree. In such a case, the train company must put the customer in a hotel if needed, as a poster above identifies. Simply telling the customer to "delay their journey" doesn't cut it.

If a customer can hail a taxi or book one through an app, alternative transport is by definition available and must be provided if it is the customer's preferred option. These are contractual and statutory rights, not merely good customer service.

I don’t mind hotels if someone is genuinely stranded through something unforseen, however I’m not overly happy about subsidising hotel accommodation for people who could have reasonably rescheduled their journey. Though how you segregate one subset from the other isn’t easy.

 

[driverd]

The Railway is not an emergency service or a welfare service. Those services do exist for those genuinely in need of them.

But neither is it a luxury toy for those fancying a day out.

Its a public service thats essential for social mobility, business and the economy to keep moving.

For many, its one of the only cost effective ways to get to places of work, with many employers not sympathising with "the train was cancelled" as a reason for not turning in.

 

[Rail Ranger]

In terms of tomorrow evening I agree. If people know there won't be a service tomorrow evening they've got time to make alternative arrangements.

It will be interesting to see when the different TOCs start recovering service on Friday/Saturday. My bet is that EMR and TPE will be running on the Hope Valley on Friday from about lunchtime once snow has been cleared, but Northern will decide they can't be bothered until Saturday. This is exactly what happened with Barrow last time.

It also appears that, just like last time, services within the area not affected by the line closures are not getting a full service. The Hadfield EMUs are withdrawn from 6pm throughout leaving just the Rose Hill service, meaning nothing at Flowery Field which is normally only served by the EMU, just like Lancaster got just the TPEs last time because Northern couldn't be bothered to run there even though nothing was really stopping them doing so. Also, due to the withdrawal of the EMU service entirely, the last train from Picc to Guide Bridge is around 2100 rather than the usual two hours later.

This, again, is inexcusably poor. There really should be stop orders at Flowery Field and some sort of evening provision at Guide Bridge and stations west of it even if it's a bus service. "Do not travel" continues to be misused.

The Rose Hill service doesn't go through Flowery Field. It calls at Hyde North and Hyde Central.

 

[Bald Rick]

I know. An amber warning only means that delays and cancellations on the trains are likely.

No, that’s not what it means. From the Met Office:

Amber Warning: There is an increased likelihood of impacts from severe weather, which could potentially disrupt your plans. This means there is the possibility of travel delays, road and rail closures, power cuts and the potential risk to life and property.

The last 6 words being key.

Weather warnings such as this by their nature have to cover a wide area, and can’t deal with the intircacies of very local affects.

The weather forecast supplied to the Railway today shows potentially 30-40cm of snow, locally, in the area of the Hope Valley line between 1200 tomorrow and 0600 Friday, with most of that falling overnight. This is the worst weather in the whole country, equalled only by parts of mid-Wales. Clearly the forecast could be wrong. But given that is the best forecast available, from the professionals; it is wise to take heed.

 

[HS2isgood]

Tbh it's reasonable to close, but it's unserious not to let people travel via Huddersfield or Wakefield.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Rose Hill service doesn't go through Flowery Field. It calls at Hyde North and Hyde Central.

Sorry, I got that all backwards, I'll edit my post. I was thinking of Fairfield, which gets the Rose Hill but not the Hadfield. Oops!

 

[The exile]

Many years ago, one of the Deutsche Bundesbahn's more successful advertising campaigns was "Alle reden vom Wetter. Wir nicht!" (Everyone talks about the weather. We don't) - with the implication that "the trains will (eventually) get through. DB is warning of widespread delays and cancellations as of tomorrow and advising against travel. Yes - they are less resilient than before and yes, modern traction and equipment is more sensitive to weather - but if a country much more used to sever winter weather is advising that, it suggests the next few days could be bad.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tbh it's reasonable to close, but it's unserious not to let people travel via Huddersfield or Wakefield.

Given that (a) these trains are cancelled, and (b) the TOC involved in the diversion is Northern, TPE or LNER, would it not seem that the existing rules actually permit that anyway in that this diversion would provide the next available connection departing within two hours of the cancellation operated by a DfT Operator TOC?

 

[HS2isgood]

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Oh TPE via Huddersfield is closed? It's not announced here, sorry for my mistake

 

[Russel]

The Railway is not an emergency service or a welfare service. Those services do exist for those genuinely in need of them.

No, it's a public service that we, collectively, as tax payers, are funding but cannot rely on at an increasing frequency, falls apart at the drop of a hat and treats passengers as an operational inconvenience.

 

[fishwomp]

[..]

The weather forecast supplied to the Railway today shows potentially 30-40cm of snow, locally, in the area of the Hope Valley line between 1200 tomorrow and 0600 Friday, with most of that falling overnight. This is the worst weather in the whole country, equalled only by parts of mid-Wales. Clearly the forecast could be wrong. But given that is the best forecast available, from the professionals; it is wise to take heed.

.. and deploy the ploughs? Isn't it taking heed to actually use ploughs (they do still exist, right?)? 2ft of snow in a day or even in an hour is not the same as wind blowing down trees or rain washing out bridges.

 

[Bikeman78]

Employers wouldn't expect people not to turn in because of an amber weather warning, the railway shouldn't use this as an excuse to stop delivering.

I'll have to try it. Sorry boss, it's not safe for me to cycle in because there's an amber weather warning. I think I can guess the result of that conversation.

 

[NeakPed]

Many years ago, one of the Deutsche Bundesbahn's more successful advertising campaigns was "Alle reden vom Wetter. Wir nicht!" (Everyone talks about the weather. We don't) - with the implication that "the trains will (eventually) get through. DB is warning of widespread delays and cancellations as of tomorrow and advising against travel. Yes - they are less resilient than before and yes, modern traction and equipment is more sensitive to weather - but if a country much more used to sever winter weather is advising that, it suggests the next few days could be bad.

And NS (Nederlandse Spoorwegen) have been running a reduced service yesterday & today due to a ‘bit of snow’.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Travel Updates | Live Train Times | TransPennine Express

Search travel updates and live train times to plan ahead for your journey. Use our alternative route planner in case of disruption

www.tpexpress.co.uk

Oh TPE via Huddersfield is closed? It's not announced here, sorry for my mistake

I don't think it is? That page refers to the Hope Valley. Not that it won't *end up* closed though!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

I'll have to try it. Sorry boss, it's not safe for me to cycle in because there's an amber weather warning. I think I can guess the result of that conversation.

Therein lies the problem. People will get in cars, will crash them, and to some measure might end up injured or worse...if we're going to be suggesting people stay at home, then we probably need a more all-industries Governmental approach (i.e. officially telling businesses they can't sack people for not getting in and suggesting they might want to shut down for the day if that's feasible), though I know many on here would oppose it. Because if people will get sacked if they stay at home, then they aren't going to do so, regardless of what risk it might involve.

(Office workers who can work from home already will be, of course, why would you subject yourself to that disruption?)

 

[Fokx]

Tbh it's reasonable to close, but it's unserious not to let people travel via Huddersfield or Wakefield.

There's a reduced timetable in operation between Liverpool/Manchester and Leeds due to the closure of Leeds to York via Micklefield.

I would imagine that ticket acceptance will be in place but not advertised.

 

[driverd]

No, it's a public service that we, collectively, as tax payers, are funding but cannot rely on at an increasing frequency, falls apart at the drop of a hat and treats passengers as an operational inconvenience.

Precisely this. Couldn't have put it better.

Simply put, if the message was "expect disruption but we'll do what we can", I don't think anyone would object.

"Do not travel because we're not going to bother", however, is highly objectionable.

It also simply attempts to absolves the operators of responsibility, as many still will attempt to travel, only to find no train service. The operators then wash their hands of responsibility by directing people to a corner of their website which many won't have seen, because, rightly, the general public expect a public service to do its best, not throw the towel in.

 

[muz379]

I think a lot of posters are missing the fact that these cancellations are a result of network rail closing the route not just at the whims of the TOC.

That's will at least in part he because network rail can't guarantee an ability to continue to provide incident response capability if weather is as bad as forecast. Coupled with weather conditions that make it more likely that an incident requiring that response will be required.

People are also quick to bemoan the industry when stranded trains aren't dealt with quickly enough. So I'm sure with a bit of understanding they can see why taking steps to prevent a situation where a train full of people is stranded for a protracted period in the middle of nowhere during a storm is probably actually quite sensible.

Therein lies the problem. People will get in cars, will crash them,

They might do that , but probably not on roads across the peak District if the weather does end up being as bad as forecast as they'll be closed as well. Which isn't uncommon for some routes this time of year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They might do that , but probably not on roads across the peak District if the weather does end up being as bad as forecast as they'll be closed as well. Which isn't uncommon for some routes this time of year.

Probably true of the Hope Valley if it is that bad, yes. Of Flowery Field (OK, 500m from Hyde North), Newton, Godley, Hattersley*, Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield, which are in effect outer suburbs of Manchester? Though to be fair I don't fancy the road down from Mottram towards Glossop in snow/ice, I suspect it'll be like bumper cars...

* I can't think of that station, a very curious place which is a pretty horrible Council estate but in beautiful scenery, without saying " 'A'ersle' " in my head

 

[pokemonsuper9]

That's will at least in part he because network rail can't guarantee an ability to continue to provide incident response capability if weather is as bad as forecast. Coupled with weather conditions that make it more likely that an incident requiring that response will be required.

I just hope that Northern, EMR, and TPE will have all the spare resources in place so that if NR cancel the closure they can start running.
But I think we all know what'll really happen (i.e. nothing).

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's obviously not on to be leaving people genuinely stranded; but it's been pointed out before that if you keep running trains/providing alternatives right up until the point that you physically can't, people will continue to make avoidable, non-essential journeys.

It is a conundrum, definitely, and there will be consequences also if a TOC tries to continue and then it all falls over.

I think where I take issue is the fact that the TOCs, and Network Rail, are now so quick to close routes days in advance. We saw that with the wet weather a week or two ago, Network Rail apparently forcing the closure of most of the network to the north of Preston and Northern shrugging their shoulders and telling people to go swivel. It was a bit moist but nothing more than that, to the extent that Stagecoach were still running a full bus service in the area which Northern could have arranged acceptance on.

I think a lot of posters are missing the fact that these cancellations are a result of network rail closing the route not just at the whims of the TOC.

Yes, they did the same thing in Cumbria a couple of weeks ago.

It was so wet that Network Rail couldn’t possibly allow trains to run. Apparently their staff couldn’t get to incidents, or something. But it was so bad that, er, Stagecoach managed to run a full bus service.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Probably true of the Hope Valley if it is that bad, yes. Of Flowery Field (OK, 500m from Hyde North), Newton, Godley, Hattersley*, Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield, which are in effect outer suburbs of Manchester? Though to be fair I don't fancy the road down from Mottram towards Glossop in snow/ice, I suspect it'll be like bumper cars...

Maybe a partial part of this is that there is no turnback until Dinting, so any train going down that line must be able to get to Dinting or gets stuck.

 

[Fokx]

I think a lot of posters are missing the fact that these cancellations are a result of network rail closing the route not just at the whims of the TOC.

That's will at least in part he because network rail can't guarantee an ability to continue to provide incident response capability if weather is as bad as forecast.

They also can't guarantee that the signallers will actually be able to reach their manually operated signal boxes should the road conditions become impassable

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2026 ==

I just hope that Northern, EMR, and TPE will have all the spare resources in place so that if NR cancel the closure they can start running.
But I think we all know what'll really happen (i.e. nothing).

There won't be spare crews because resources will be diverted elsewhere.

TPE for example have split the route in two tomorrow between Cleethorpes and Sheffield and Manchester and Liverpool. This means that any available spare crew will be running 'shuttles' instead on the ammended diagrams .