• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Thoughts on the Trump presidency

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,716
Location
Scotland
Donald Trump has suggested US taxpayers could reimburse energy companies for repairing Venezuelan infrastructure for extracting and shipping oil.

Trump acknowledged that “a lot of money” would need to be spent to increase oil production in Venezuela after US forces ousted its leader, Nicolás Maduro, but suggested his government could pay oil companies to do the work.


“A tremendous amount of money will have to be spent and the oil companies will spend it, and then they’ll get reimbursed by us or through revenue,” the president said.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jan/06/trump-us-taxpayers-oil-firms-venezuela-investment

So the average citizen can't get healthcare, but the oil companies can get life support.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
13,028
Location
Up the creek
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jan/06/trump-us-taxpayers-oil-firms-venezuela-investment

So the average citizen can't get healthcare, but the oil companies can get life support.

I came across something on my newsfeed saying that the US hierarchy admitted that they had consulted the oil companies before going in to Venezuela, but not Congress.

I also came across a suggestion that the reason Trump doesn’t want Machado or Gonzalez to take the reins is that he is piqued that she won his Nobel Prize.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,114
Location
Redcar
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/jan/06/trump-us-taxpayers-oil-firms-venezuela-investment

So the average citizen can't get healthcare, but the oil companies can get life support.
For oil that they might not even particularly want thanks to continued destabilisation of Venezuela that Trump and his acolytes adventure has done nothing to assist with...

Two sources previously told CNN that while Trump officials engaged US oil companies to weigh interest in returning to Venezuela, energy companies were reluctant to commit to reinvesting there.

Venezuela has more proven oil reserves than any country on the planet, more than Iraq, Russia and the United States combined, according to federal estimates.

Yet when oil companies decide to invest in far-flung drilling projects, they need confidence about what the operating environment there will look like years, if not decades, into the future. These days it’s hard to feel solid about Venezuela’s form of government and institutions weeks from now, let alone years.

“Just because there are oil reserves – even the largest in the world – doesn’t mean you’re necessarily going to produce there,” another industry source told CNN. “This isn’t like standing up a food truck operation.”

This source said the Trump administration put “rhetoric before reality” and stressed political stability is “paramount” when companies weigh investing overseas.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,114
Location
Redcar
I also came across a suggestion that the reason Trump doesn’t want Machado or Gonzalez to take the reins is that he is piqued that she won his Nobel Prize.
In this very thread even! :lol:
I would reckon she's got her eye on the prize of the Presidency of Venezuela and Trump is of the view that makes her persona non grata:




She needs to suck up to Trump now if she's to have any chance of winning him over and gaining the support of the current US administration.

That being said it remains unclear to me how she (or anyone else for that matter) would assume power anyway at present because the Venezuelan state remains in situ. Just without Maduro and it seems to be the official position that he remains President so...
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,932
Location
Gateway to the South West
For oil that they might not even particularly want thanks to continued destabilisation of Venezuela that Trump and his acolytes adventure has done nothing to assist with...


The quote included the phrase "This source said the Trump administration put “rhetoric before reality” and stressed political stability is “paramount” when companies weigh investing overseas."

I find this interesting for no other reason than big companies are beginning to vocalise their dissatisfaction with the current status, albeit in very careful words.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
28,692
Location
Nottingham
Comments by others that the US military action is against international law are undermined by the Nobel Peace Prize winning Venezuelan opposition leader María Corina Machado saying she was grateful for Donald Trump‘s action in Venezuela, calling it a “huge step for humanity, for freedom”. At present it is better to choose words carefully and wisely.
Corina Machado is a pro-Trump figure, which makes me question whether she is genuinely committed to democracy. The Nobel committee may not be in the same league as FIFA but there has to be the suspicion that they were influenced by politics when awarding her - they have made other odd choices such as when Obama got it for, apparently, doing very little other than not being George W Bush.
 

Mogster

Member
Joined
25 Sep 2018
Messages
1,032
A bit closer to home…

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...tor-tanker-ireland-clampdown-venezuelan-oilUS

US aircraft monitor tanker off Ireland that tried to evade Venezuela blockade​

Ship changed its name and registered in Russia in apparent attempt to prevent possible US seizure near British Isles




A hastily reflagged oil tanker 250 miles off the coast of Ireland is under US military surveillance after it evaded capture in the Caribbean Sea in December, changed its name and switched course towards northern Russia.
Bella 1 changed its name to the Marinera, registered in Russia, and its crew painted a crude Russian flag on the side in an apparent attempt to prevent a possible US seizure near the British Isles.
 
Joined
2 Feb 2019
Messages
1,039
It doesn’t matter what Venezuelan opposition leader María Corina Machado says, the action by the Trump administration was illegal under both international and American law.
This is the response of the United States Ambassador to the United Nations who claims that Maduro was threatening the USA and other countries, most specifically Guyana, so the action was justified under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. Clearly those who want to agree will support this view while those who do not will reject it. However, the point about Guyana is valid.

U.S. Representative to the United Nations Ambassador Mike Waltz's Interview on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures”
By United States Mission to the United Nations
January 4, 2026
Ambassador Mike Waltz
JASON CHAFFETZ: Joining us now for a Sunday Morning Futures exclusive, the United States Ambassador to the United Nations, Mike Waltz. Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us. I think the message you delivered was clear. President Trump has been very clear. I think the people with ties to Venezuela, people believe in law and order, are cheering in the streets, but you’re about to walk into a situation tomorrow at the United Nations where a lot of people don’t like a strong President Trump, they don’t like a strong United States of America. What do you think is going to happen tomorrow?
AMBASSADOR MIKE WALTZ: Well, first, Jason, I want to salute President Trump as Commander in Chief and our amazing military special operations operatives and law enforcement for the bold, decisive and successful action that they’ve taken. In terms of the United Nations and the Security Council, Jason, you’re going to hear a lot of hand wringing on Article 2 of the UN Charter, which deals with sovereignty. And you know, I will remind everyone of Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, which is – as we have in the past – which is a nation’s inherent right to self-defense. So in this case, you have a drug kingpin, an illegitimate leader indicted in the United States, coordinating with the likes of China, Russia, Iran, terrorist groups like Hizballah, pumping drugs, thugs, and weapons into the United States of America, threatening to invade its neighbors. Its neighbor, Guyana, with one of the largest oil discoveries in the world, is under threat from the Maduro regime. One of the largest refugee crises in the world, larger than even Syria, Jason. And at the end of the day was the United States, was President Trump just going to let that status quo continue? Absolutely not. He gave diplomacy a chance. He gave Maduro a chance, but he took decisive action in the interest of the United States, and Maduro will now be prosecuted in federal court.
 
Last edited:

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
6,041
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
Citing the ongoing Guyana situation as one of the reasons for the US to nab Maduro is the flimsiest of flimsy justifications. Of course the US government doesn't give two hoots about Guyana's plight and it's not mentioned once in the DoJ indictment. This is an international ****-waving contest with exploitation of Venezuela's natural resources as a side quest.

As for Greenland, while Katie Miller's tweet was bad enough, her husband has gone full-blown movie villain with his latest comments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/politics/stephen-miller-greenland-venezuela.html

Stephen Miller, a top aide to President Trump, asserted on Monday that Greenland rightfully belonged to the United States and that the Trump administration could seize the semiautonomous Danish territory if it wanted.

“Nobody’s going to fight the United States militarily over the future of Greenland,” Mr. Miller told Jake Tapper, the CNN host, after being asked repeatedly whether he would rule out using military force.

The remarks were part of a vocal push by Mr. Miller, long a powerful behind-the-scenes player in Trump administration policy, to justify American imperialism and a vision for a new world order in which the United States could freely overthrow national governments and take foreign territory and resources so long as it was in the national interest.

“We live in a world, in the real world, Jake, that is governed by strength, that is governed by force, that is governed by power,” he said. “These are the iron laws of the world since the beginning of time.”
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
33,716
Location
Scotland
However, the point about Guyana is valid.
If the USA was interested in defending Guyana's territorial integrity and rejecting Venezuela's claim on the Essequibo region then they would have sent troops to perform operations in Guyana.
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
13,028
Location
Up the creek
Today is January 6th. Anybody remember what happened five years ago? Surely Trump wouldn’t invade another country so that people might not notice this anniversary.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,924
Location
UK
That was all Antifa and the FBI though, according to Trump.

I mean, sure, the people arrested demanded to say who they were and who they fought for, and Trump later pardoned them - but let's ignore that minor detail.
 

Falcon1200

Established Member
Joined
14 Jun 2021
Messages
6,585
Location
Neilston, East Renfrewshire
Like most, I was shocked and appalled by what has happened in Venezuela. But a couple of things occur to me;


Local media reports 23 Venezuelan and 32 Cuban soldiers died when US elite troops stormed Maduro's compound on Saturday

32 Cuban soldiers killed protecting (not very well) Maduro - Could Venezuelans alone not be trusted to do this?

And Maduro by all accounts appears to be a most unpleasant character, allegedly winning power by voting fraud, wrecking his country's economy and finances (but doubtless not his own) and causing millions of his fellow citizens to flee. Yet no-one had been able to remove him; Not his own people, neighbouring or indeed any Latin American nations, nor the UN. Should he have been allowed to retain his iron grip indefinitely?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,114
Location
Redcar
I mean, sure, the people arrested demanded to say who they were and who they fought for, and Trump later pardoned them - but let's ignore that minor detail.
Of course they were pardoned! They'd been convicted by the deep state in corrupt trials!
 

Gloster

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
13,028
Location
Up the creek
Once again, however unpleasant a head of state it is, it is not for another country just to unilaterally decided to remove them. If such a removal seems necessary it should be done under the authority such as the UN, Organisation of American States, etc. Otherwise you will just get one state preying on a less powerful one, invading with the claim that they are returning the country to democracy, whether that is true or not. The current system of respecting other countries territorial integrity, and there are a lot of caveats with that, is far from perfect, but lose it and the powerful and ruthless countries just grab what they want. Who is going to judge whether a government has done something like this with good intentions and what do you do if they claim they have, despite all the evidence?

One should separate the fact that a thoroughly unpleasant person has been removed from the general principle that this sort of behaviour should not be allowed to continue unchecked. And who knows who is going to take over: we might end up with the US keeping the oil wells and everything else dissolving into chaos.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
9,430
Should he have been allowed to retain his iron grip indefinitely?

Not by his own people. But the Federal US Government needs to stop meddling in other people's affairs. They are not the world's policeman and need to stop their constant interfering which just makes the world a more dangerous place for us and leaves us more vulnerable to revenge terrorism. Quite frankly, Venezuela is absolutely none of the US's business. They should sort out their own country before getting involved in other peoples'.

As for Greenland, what are they trying there? I'd argue that Stephen Miller is every bit as unpleasant and extremist as Maduro, if not more so.
 
Last edited:

EYFanatic

Member
Joined
29 Sep 2025
Messages
656
Location
Hell's Dungeon
What would be the consequences if Trump were to attempt to seize that oil tanker ( the Bella 1 ) which is currently roughly 500 miles west of Ireland and is attracting a lot of US military flight attention today?
Its been a long time since I read the Rules, Laws and Customs Of The Sea and the associated UN conventions, but if the Americans opened fire and hit the ship, the crew if armed would be entitled to return that fire as legally speaking the US forces are pirates whilst putting out a general distress call... Any naval vessel would then be obligated to come to its defence which may or may not include standing into danger and firing warning shots at the American forces on sea or even warning off aircraft otherwise they would fire upon it

I doubt this will happen, but that is what would would be one possibility

For the record, her last AIS entry puts her on a course of 035 degrees at a speed of 10knots... If she holds that course, she enters UK waters in about five days
 

brad465

Veteran Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
11,517
Location
Taunton or Kent
Like most, I was shocked and appalled by what has happened in Venezuela. But a couple of things occur to me;




32 Cuban soldiers killed protecting (not very well) Maduro - Could Venezuelans alone not be trusted to do this?

And Maduro by all accounts appears to be a most unpleasant character, allegedly winning power by voting fraud, wrecking his country's economy and finances (but doubtless not his own) and causing millions of his fellow citizens to flee. Yet no-one had been able to remove him; Not his own people, neighbouring or indeed any Latin American nations, nor the UN. Should he have been allowed to retain his iron grip indefinitely?
There are suggestions it was an inside job: someone "close" to Maduro gave the US intel to go in and do what they did, presumably in exchange for 30 pieces of silver, which would explain how the US could do it so quickly. The Vice-President is considered the most likely candidate.
 
Joined
2 Feb 2019
Messages
1,039
There are suggestions it was an inside job: someone "close" to Maduro gave the US intel to go in and do what they did, presumably in exchange for 30 pieces of silver, which would explain how the US could do it so quickly. The Vice-President is considered the most likely candidate.
If the following report is true it would explain how Maduro was captured and removed to the USA so quickly and easily.

Was Maduro capture an inside job? Secret talks in the Middle East, a CIA team on the ground and conspiracy theorists question why US didn't meet heavier opposition
By IMOGEN GARFINKEL - SENIOR FOREIGN NEWS REPORTER
Published: 09:21, 5 January 2026
Venezuela's vice-president held secret meetings with Washington in Doha in the months leading up to the US military assault on Caracas that saw Nicolás Maduro's capture, it has been claimed.
During the covert talks, mediated by a senior member of the Qatari royal family, Delcy Rodríguez presented herself to American officials as a 'more acceptable' alternative to the 63-year-old dictator.
According to an October report in the Miami Herald, Rodríguez offered the US a vision of 'Madurismo without Maduro,' a kind of 'regime lite'.
 

brad465

Veteran Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
11,517
Location
Taunton or Kent
Elsewhere the GOP slim majority in the House has taken another knock, as one of their congressman died unexpectedly:


Doug LaMalfa, a Republican Congressman from California, has died unexpectedly at age 65, colleagues announced on Tuesday.
President Donald Trump offered a tribute to LaMalfa, saying he wanted "to express our tremendous sorrow at the loss of a great member - a great, great, great member".
The congressman's cause of death was not immediately clear. LaMalfa was a former rice farmer elected to congress in 2013. He focused on water and agriculture issues during his tenure.
His death shaved an already-thin Republican majority in the US House of Representatives to just a few seats, following the resignation on Monday of former Trump ally Marjorie Taylor Greene.
 

Strathclyder

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
3,835
Location
Clydebank
As for Greenland, while Katie Miller's tweet was bad enough, her husband has gone full-blown movie villain with his latest comments.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/05/us/politics/stephen-miller-greenland-venezuela.html
I cannot put into words - well, words that can be used without the ban hammer coming down on me within seconds - how much I utterly, utterly, UTTERLY despise Miller. Barring the virulent racism and skin thinner than wet paper when called out, just his nasal, arrogant tone of voice makes me wanna deck him hard. And I say this as someone not at all disposed to physical violence, he just p*sses me off that much.

A scrote-faced snowflake who deserves, just as much as Trump if not more so, to be tossed onto Rockall and left to the Atlantic's mercy.

Like most, I was shocked and appalled by what has happened in Venezuela. But a couple of things occur to me;




32 Cuban soldiers killed protecting (not very well) Maduro - Could Venezuelans alone not be trusted to do this?

And Maduro by all accounts appears to be a most unpleasant character, allegedly winning power by voting fraud, wrecking his country's economy and finances (but doubtless not his own) and causing millions of his fellow citizens to flee. Yet no-one had been able to remove him; Not his own people, neighbouring or indeed any Latin American nations, nor the UN. Should he have been allowed to retain his iron grip indefinitely?
Maduro is a wretched human being who's wrecked his country in nearly every respect, that much is clear. But at the same time, the US has no legal basis to just come swanning in and effectively kidnap him and his wife, with or without inside assistance. If these cretinous tossers are strutting around the globe acting like the world's policemen (really oil farming, let's be real), the very effing least they could do is sort out their own yard first. All this does is open them up to revenge terrorism and make the world in general that much less safe.
 

3141

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2012
Messages
2,122
Location
Whitchurch, Hampshire
I agree with the UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer choosing his words carefully and wisely. Comments by others that the US military action is against international law are undermined by the Nobel Peace Prize winning Venezuelan opposition leader María Corina Machado saying she was grateful for Donald Trump‘s action in Venezuela, calling it a “huge step for humanity, for freedom”. At present it is better to choose words carefully and wisely.
I think this illustrates the complexity of this situation - like many other situations that arise.

Maduro remained in power after the recent elections which it appears he lost. If it is true that large quantities of drugs are reaching the USA from Venezuela, the American government may indeed wish to do something about it.

What the USA has done is clearly in breach of international law. But it is not the least surprising that some Venezuelan citizens are very pleased to see Maduro's departure.

If you see ships heading towards your country, and there is good reason to believe that they are carrying drugs for the illegal market, what action should you take?

I regret that in circumstances such as these, there isn't a clearly "right" course of action. But I expect someone will shortly tell me that there is, and even what it is.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
17,849
Location
Epsom
Its been a long time since I read the Rules, Laws and Customs Of The Sea and the associated UN conventions, but if the Americans opened fire and hit the ship, the crew if armed would be entitled to return that fire as legally speaking the US forces are pirates whilst putting out a general distress call... Any naval vessel would then be obligated to come to its defence which may or may not include standing into danger and firing warning shots at the American forces on sea or even warning off aircraft otherwise they would fire upon it

I doubt this will happen, but that is what would would be one possibility

For the record, her last AIS entry puts her on a course of 035 degrees at a speed of 10knots... If she holds that course, she enters UK waters in about five days
This is starting to sound a bit like Hobson's Choice isn't it?

Do something about it and all hell breaks loose.

Don't do anything about it and Trump thinks* he can walk over anything anywhere in the world.


*Assuming he doesn't already think that - in which case doing nothing would just encourage him further.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
31,114
Location
Redcar
If it is true that large quantities of drugs are reaching the USA from Venezuela, the American government may indeed wish to do something about it.
It isn't:

Is Venezuela flooding the US with drugs?​

Counternarcotic experts say that Venezuela is a relatively minor player in global drug trafficking, acting as a transit country through which drugs produced elsewhere are smuggled.

Its neighbour, Colombia, is the world's largest producer of cocaine but most of it is thought to enter the US by other routes, not via Venezuela.

According to a US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report from 2020, almost three quarters of the cocaine reaching the US is estimated to be trafficked via the Pacific with just a small percentage coming via fast boats in the Caribbean.

While most of the early strikes the US has carried out were in the Caribbean, more recent ones have focused on the Pacific.

In September, Trump told US military leaders that the boats targeted "are stacked up with bags of white powder that's mostly fentanyl and other drugs, too".

Fentanyl is a synthetic drug which is 50 times more potent than heroin and has become the main drug responsible for opioid overdose deaths in the US.

On 15 December, Trump signed an executive order designating fentanyl as a "weapon of mass destruction", arguing that it was "closer to a chemical weapon than a narcotic".

However, fentanyl is produced mainly in Mexico and reaches the US almost exclusively via land through its southern border.

Venezuela is not mentioned as a country of origin for fentanyl smuggled into the US in the DEA's 2025 National Drug Threat Assessment.

 

brad465

Veteran Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
11,517
Location
Taunton or Kent
If lots of drugs are going to the US then there is a high demand for them. There would be no drugs going there if nobody wanted them. A more rational approach to stopping the drug trade would be to educate and provide support to those with addictions to get them off drugs and prevent others getting on them in the first place. But this is the US we're talking about, where "it's always someone else's fault" and military behaviour is the "answer" to everything.
 

dgl

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2014
Messages
3,066
Naturally if it was all about drugs then Trump wouldn't have recently pardoned a drug trafficker, he thinks the western world is stupid and that'll be his downfall.
 

GatwickDepress

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2013
Messages
2,588
Location
Leeds
In today's episode of this never-ending nightmare, Trump is rewriting history with a page on the White House that claims the January 6th insurrection was all just 'peaceful patriotic protestors', no police officers died, and pushes the conspiracy that Biden 'stole' the election.

Daniel S. Levine for People said:
President Donald Trump’s administration marked the fifth anniversary of the Jan. 6, 2021, riot at the U.S. Capitol by launching a website that claims Democrats “staged the real insurrection” by eventually certifying former President Joe Biden’s 2020 election victory.

The website, which belongs to the White House's domain and is promoted by official government social media accounts, refers to rioters as “peaceful patriotic protestors.” It claims Democrats, many of whom were targeted by the rioters, “masterfully reversed reality” by referring to the riot as a coup attempt.

House Speaker Emeritus Nancy Pelosi is prominently featured at the top of the site, alongside members of the House select committee on the riot. The website accuses the committee of “producing a scripted TV spectacle to fabricate an ‘insurrection’ narrative and pin all blame on President Trump."

During a speech on Tuesday, Jan. 6, Trump claimed the media didn’t accurately report his words five years ago and sought to shift blame to Pelosi.

“Do you know that the news never reported the words walk or march peacefully and patriotically to the Capitol?” Trump said at the Kennedy Center, per Politico. “Do you know that they never reported it? It’s a scandal.”

He went on to claim, “They never reported that Nancy Pelosi was offered 10,000 soldiers, National Guard soldiers, whatever you want.”

Ian Krager, a spokesperson for Pelosi, said in a statement to Politico that “ongoing attempts to whitewash the deadly insurrection are shameful, unpatriotic, and pathetic.”

Numerous independent fact-checkers have confirmed again and again that Speaker Pelosi did not plan her own assassination on January 6th,” Krager continued. “Cherry-picked, out-of-context clips do not change the fact that the Speaker of the House is not in charge of the security of the Capitol Complex — on January 6th or any other day of the week.”

On the site, the administration also accuses Capitol Police officers of the violence, even as they protected lawmakers. The site goes on to call former Vice President Mike Pence’s certification of Biden’s victory an “act of cowardice and sabotage.” The site’s timeline later claims that 2020 is “considered the greatest election theft in U.S. history, with widespread fraud deliberately ignored by courts, officials and the media.”

The administration also lists members of the pro-Trump mob who died during the riot or in connection with it, but does not mention that nearly 140 police officers were injured that same day by weapons. It also fails to mention officers who died in the aftermath, even claiming in its timeline that “zero law enforcement officers lost their lives,” notes The New York Times.

Brian Sicknick, a Capitol police officer who was pepper-sprayed and died the day after the riot, is not mentioned on the site. Four other officers died by suicide.

“Trump recognizes that he has not shaken Jan. 6,” Rep. Jamie Raskin, whose face is featured on the site as a member of the select committee, told The Hill on Tuesday. “The fact that they’re having to put up a little propaganda site on the White House web demonstrates how insecure they are about the situation.”

Hours after Trump’s second term began in January 2025, he pardoned all of the nearly 1,600 people charged in connection with the riot as one of his first official acts.

The White House page is here, if you're interested in reading revisionism.
 

Top