Repeated Fare Dodging - Please can someone give advice on this

[qghwkmsjwew]

Hi,

I was stopped at the barrier after having my ticket manually scanned and i hadnt scanned in. I had been buying tickets so i could scan in at the station i arrive at and then out at the station i leave and then the return doing the same at the end of the day. I had done this for ~37 days. I gave my details to the ticket warden and am awaiting the letter. Please could someone say on what they think the extent of the fine could be? Would they prosecute for this? This was on a Thameslink train. I had been paying full price for tickets over the previous 8 months but for personal reasons I wasn't able to afford the full fare and started doing this.

Please could anyone help with advice on what the letter will say? Should i contact a solicitor in the meantime or after the letter arrives?

Thank you for any advice

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2025 ==

Sorry i didnt read the guidance, here is the information:
Started: Three Bridges
Ended: London Bridge
Weekly Season tickets: Three Bridges <-> Gatwick & London Blackfriars <-> London Bridge
Railcard wasnt applied
Tickets purchased prior
Encounter with staff: stopped at barrier as i hadnt scanned in when trying to scan out with three bridges <-> Gatwick ticket

 

[Titfield]

1. You do not need to contact a solicitor unless the matter escalates very considerably. Most problems of this sort can be resolved without the need for a solicitor. Forum members will say if and when to contact a solicitor.

2. A rail operator (train operating company) can not fine you. They will want the fares avoided (at the full one way fare with no discounts and usually no credit for the amount paid already) plus their admin fees (typically £150 - £200) in investigating your ticket purchasing and use. This is an out of court settlement. Start saving now as they will want all the money in one go.

3. You have to wait until the letter arrives. It can take anything from a couple of weeks to a few months.

4. If you search this forum (use the search box top right of the page) you can find a great many similar events with responses which have been submitted successfully.

5. Draft your own response so that forum members can check it and suggest any improvements / changes. You will need to apologise, be contrite and convince the TOC you will not do this again.

 

[WesternLancer]

5. . You will need to apologise, be contrite and convince the TOC you will not do this again.

To add to this sound advice on point 5 I would of course add that the OP will need to specifically ask them to 'kindly consider allowing you to resolve the matter without the need for court action' by offering to pay them what you owe.

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

Understood, thank you both for your advice. I really appreciate it. I will await the letter and then post my draft response here so members of the community can kindly review it.

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

Hi, I am still yet to receive a letter in the post. Is it possible to call them to get an update or ETA on when their investigation will be completed? Thank you

 

[AlterEgo]

It may take several months. It is not in your interests to remind them of your offending, so stay quiet for now.

 

[BRX]

If I've got it right, the OP was stopped when exiting the gates at three bridges with a gatwick to three bridges ticket when they had actually travelled from blackfriars. The portion of the journey they'd done without a ticket was london bridge to gatwick. Doesn't the TOC have to catch them during that portion? Is "not having scanned in" enough proof? Wouldn't they have to prove that the OP didn't board the train there?

 

[Haywain]

If I've got it right, the OP was stopped when exiting the gates at three bridges with a gatwick to three bridges ticket when they had actually travelled from blackfriars. The portion of the journey they'd done without a ticket was london bridge to gatwick. Doesn't the TOC have to catch them during that portion? Is "not having scanned in" enough proof? Wouldn't they have to prove that the OP didn't board the train there?

If they chose to take the matter to court the OP might find it difficult to defend without committing perjury. So, whilst proof may be theoretically required it pays to not take it for granted.

Edited to add: The OP was doughnutting with season tickets, so the clear evidence of that is unlikely to be difficult to find. And it sounds like they were S-tickets which will produce scan records at both ends of the journey.

 

[WesternLancer]

If I've got it right, the OP was stopped when exiting the gates at three bridges with a gatwick to three bridges ticket when they had actually travelled from blackfriars. The portion of the journey they'd done without a ticket was london bridge to gatwick. Doesn't the TOC have to catch them during that portion? Is "not having scanned in" enough proof? Wouldn't they have to prove that the OP didn't board the train there?

They may have admitted it when stopped which won’t help them if it went to court I suspect. Unless they pay a solicitor to represent them perhaps.
That would cost more than the railway would typically settle for I think.

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

I did admit to have done it when stopped as i thought it was the best thing do do when caught. Is this not a case of me admitting to it an then repaying what is owed in addition to the admin fee? What is the chances they take this to court??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==

To add to this, would it not make more sense for the train company to accept the out of court settlement rather than pursue legal action? The single fare journeys plus an admin fee works out to about £1600. Wouldn’t any legal action cost much more than this?

 

[WesternLancer]

I did admit to have done it when stopped as i thought it was the best thing do do when caught. Is this not a case of me admitting to it an then repaying what is owed in addition to the admin fee? What is the chances they take this to court??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Dec 2025 ==

To add to this, would it not make more sense for the train company to accept the out of court settlement rather than pursue legal action? The single fare journeys plus an admin fee works out to about £1600. Wouldn’t any legal action cost much more than this?

I would think there’s a strong chance they will allow you to settle pout if court.

the court fine, costs, etc might be lower than your estimate sum, but does also mean you get a criminal record which might / can also have other financial consequences eg motor insurance as an example.

Or did you mean cost the railway more than hat sum?

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

I just meant that if I owe ~£1600, then once the railway has filed the court claim and paid solicitor fees it would total close to of not more than the £1600. So financially they would prefer to allow for an out of court settlement so they can avoid all of that and just get the money. I don’t know exactly how much solicitors would cost but I’m guessing it’s not cheap

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To add to this, would it not make more sense for the train company to accept the out of court settlement rather than pursue legal action? The single fare journeys plus an admin fee works out to about £1600. Wouldn’t any legal action cost much more than this?

I'm assuming you are considering the costs to the railway rather than to you. I have no special knowledge, but it seems to me that the railway have two aims here:
(1) to get back the money that they should have been paid, and
(2) to deter (a) you and (b) others from fare dodging in future.

(1) will happen whether they take you to court or settle beforehand. 2(a) might happen with an out of court settlement - but given that your estimate of fares avoided seems to be over £1k, it's not hard for me to imagine that the railway will think that repayment plus admin won't be enough to stop you from doing it again: they may think that a fine on top plus court costs plus the public embarrassment of getting a criminal record may be more effective.

And if they take you to court and win, that opens up the possibility of 2(b): that you have been caught and convicted can be mentioned to the wider world - who may learn from your experience and start paying the right fare.

Having said all of which, what we find in practice is that people who have been caught for the first time and engage with the process almost always get an out of court settlement, even for repeated fare dodging. If you don't keep in touch with the railway - or if your response doesn't show that you intend not to do it again - you will end up in court. If you co-operate then the main result will be having to pay up.

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

Hi Rail UK forums, i received the email which you can see in the screenshot. I drafted a response to this which i would greatly appreciate any feedback on before sending a response:

"Dear Prosecutions Department,

I am writing in reply to your email concerning the incident on 23 October 2025 at Three Bridges Station.

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for travelling without a valid ticket on multiple occasions. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to ensure I hold the correct ticket for every journey I make, and I deeply regret that I failed to do so during this period. I was experiencing financial difficulties at the time. However, I fully understand that this does not justify my actions, and I take complete responsibility for my failure to hold a valid ticket.

I recognise the seriousness of the situation and am very sorry for any inconvenience or difficulty caused to the staff at Govia Thameslink Railway. I accept full responsibility for my actions.

I greatly appreciate if you would consider allowing this matter to be resolved directly with Govia Thameslink Railway without the need for court proceedings. I am more than willing to pay the outstanding fare owed, along with any penalty or administrative costs required to settle the matter.

I apologise for my actions and any disruption they may have caused. I hope you will take into account my remorse and my willingness to resolve this appropriately.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely,"


thank you.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

View attachment 195368


Hi Rail UK forums, i received the email which you can see in the screenshot. I drafted a response to this which i would greatly appreciate any feedback on before sending a response:

"Dear Prosecutions Department,

I am writing in reply to your email concerning the incident on 23 October 2025 at Three Bridges Station.

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for travelling without a valid ticket on multiple occasions. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to ensure I hold the correct ticket for every journey I make, and I deeply regret that I failed to do so during this period. I was experiencing financial difficulties at the time. However, I fully understand that this does not justify my actions, and I take complete responsibility for my failure to hold a valid ticket.

I recognise the seriousness of the situation and am very sorry for any inconvenience or difficulty caused to the staff at Govia Thameslink Railway. I accept full responsibility for my actions.

I greatly appreciate if you would consider allowing this matter to be resolved directly with Govia Thameslink Railway without the need for court proceedings. I am more than willing to pay the outstanding fare owed, along with any penalty or administrative costs required to settle the matter.

I apologise for my actions and any disruption they may have caused. I hope you will take into account my remorse and my willingness to resolve this appropriately.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely,"


thank you.

I think that's fundamentally fine. The way I read what you have put, you're hoping for a quick settlement so you're not too worried about pinning down the exact number of journeys. If I'm right on that then the letter will be OK in that you are essentially asking the railway to now send you a bill to pay, rather than trying to negotiate each individual case - and I think it's more likely than not that they will agree/

If I have understood you right, then your email is good to go (n.b. don't forget to tell GTR what your case reference is - although it's best not to tell us here!). But if you want them to send a list of the times that they want repaying for, then you may need to change your wording a bit.

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

I think I know the number of journeys, i can add that in if it will help? I didnt think it was worth negotiating each case as is it not they say and then i agree or else argue in court (which i dont want to do). Do you think it would be beneficial to ask for the list of times? If say i had got the train in the morning but not the evening but they charge for the whole day is it worth arguing this with them?

 

[z444z]

I think I know the number of journeys, i can add that in if it will help?

I would not do this.

Do you think it would be beneficial to ask for the list of times? If say i had got the train in the morning but not the evening but they charge for the whole day is it worth arguing this with them?

Yes, generally if they think you’re being truthful they are willing to make adjustments like that.

I would remove the mention of a “penalty” in your letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

I would remove the mention of a “penalty” in your letter.

yes
amend this:

I am more than willing to pay the outstanding fare owed, along with any penalty or administrative costs required to settle the matter.

to eg this

I am more than willing to pay any the outstanding fare owed, along with any penalty or administrative costs required to settle the matter.

if for no other reason than actually, if they decided to add say a £10k penalty would you be "more than willing" to pay that? I doubt it.
Not that this is likely to happen in reality so I'm not trying to scare you, just no need to include it so best not to.

 

[z444z]

Just realised my previous post doesn’t clearly answer one question - yes, do ask them for a list so that you can compare it to your records, this often aids in being able to secure a lower settlement and train companies are generally willing to provide it (some even do so without you having to ask for it which is how it should be…)

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

thank you for the responses, i really appreciate it. I updated the letter with the changes suggested:
Dear Prosecutions Department,

I am writing in reply to your email concerning the incident on 23 October 2025 at Three Bridges Station.

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for travelling without a valid ticket on multiple occasions. I fully understand that it is my responsibility to ensure I hold the correct ticket for every journey I make, and I deeply regret that I failed to do so during this period. I was experiencing financial difficulties at the time. However, I fully understand that this does not justify my actions, and I take complete responsibility for my failure to hold a valid ticket.

I recognise the seriousness of the situation and am very sorry for any inconvenience or difficulty caused to the staff at Govia Thameslink Railway. I accept full responsibility for my actions.

I'd greatly appreciate it if you would consider allowing this matter to be resolved directly with Govia Thameslink Railway without the need for court proceedings, I would be grateful if you could provide a breakdown of the journeys in question. I am more than willing to pay any outstanding fare owed, along with any administrative costs required to settle the matter.

I apologise for my actions and any disruption they may have caused. I hope you will take into account my remorse and my willingness to resolve this appropriately.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely,


does this look better? thank you again

 

[z444z]

That looks really good. Add the reference number at the top, and I’d shorten Govia Thameslink Railway to GTR so it’s a bit less wordy. You’d hope they’d know what GTR means

 

[qghwkmsjwew]

Thank you for your help, I've sent the email response

 

[dabcdef]

Thank you for your help, I've sent the email response

Hi, what is the outcome of this case? as I am in similar situation.

 

[Haywain]

Hi, what is the outcome of this case? as I am in similar situation.

Please start a new thread if you want help with a problem.