Change to EMR First Class - what will it mean?

[DDB]

I don't know if it has already been discussed but the Saturday First class offering sounds like it is getting a downgrade changing to snack boxes. I had hoped that they would improve Sunday to match the rest of the week to go after the lesuire market but instead Saturday is seeing a downgrade compared to Monday Friday and you will have to be going long distance to get that!
https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/first-class-menu

Saturday menu
Home
Saturday menu
Please settle in for your longer journey in First Class today and your host will be with you shortly to take your order. Let your host know about any dietary requirements or allergies. Enjoy your meal and have a pleasant journey.

Breakfast – on trains departing before 10am
Breakfast Box - a selection of delicious morning goods
Croissant with strawberry filling, Apple and Cinnamon Oat Bite and a Strawberry Yoghurt

Rest of the day – on trains departing after 10am
Choose from the following snack boxes
Tapas Box – A Spanish selection
Serrano Ham, Sobrasada (spreadable sausage pate), Pico Crackers, Olives

Ploughman’s Box – Individual selection of cheese and crackers
Peters Yard Sourdough Crackers, Cream Crackers Twin Pack, Creamy Cheddar, Creamy Cheese Fine Herbs, Branston Pickle, Pickled Onions

Cream Tea Box – Afternoon sweet treat
Sultana Scone, Afternoon Tea Cream, Bonne Maman Strawberry Jam, Clotted Cream Shortbread Finger

Vegan and Gluten-Free Box - An assortment of Sweet and Savoury Vegan and Gluten Free branded snacks
Nairn’s Gluten Free Wholegrain Crackers, Lentil Hummus, Bear Fruit Dried Mango, Love Corn Sea Salt, Buttermilk Caramel Nougat Chocolate Bar

Children’s Box - A selection of treats to keep young travellers fed and entertained
Dairy Milk Freddo, Mini Cheddars, Gummi Zone Pizza, Zombie Body Partz Gummies, Colouring Pencils

 

[tocguard]

I don't know if it has already been discussed but the Saturday First class offering sounds like it is getting a downgrade changing to snack boxes. I had hoped that they would improve Sunday to match the rest of the week to go after the lesuire market but instead Saturday is seeing a downgrade compared to Monday Friday and you will have to be going long distance to get that!
https://www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk/first-class-menu

Sounds awful. Once in a few decades opportunity to overhaul First Class along with the introduction of new trains. No, First Class just gets worse. Meanwhile TPE have increased their offering to a pretty good level. Then there's the quality of LNER, TfW catering. EMR appear to just slowly reduce First to nothing more than a more spacious seat. A far cry from 20 minute standard trolley offering, full breakfast trains, evening wine and cheese trains, along with the full table layups. When did it become so popular to make First cheap and tacky?

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Sounds like EMR First Class is slowly turning into SWR's with the Sheffield-St Pancras service, reduced to "Standard Plus" with a trolley service if you're lucky enough to see one, not much different to the long distance services into Waterloo.

So for the proper First Class with the trimmings, it'd probably be only LNER, AWC, TfW Premier and the GWR & CS sleepers - unless unsurprisingly there are plans to reduce offerings on these as well.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Sounds like EMR First Class is slowly turning into SWR's with the Sheffield-St Pancras service, reduced to "Standard Plus" with a trolley service if you're lucky enough to see one, not much different to the long distance services into Waterloo.

So for the proper First Class with the trimmings, it'd probably be only LNER, AWC, TfW Premier and the GWR & CS sleepers - unless unsurprisingly there are plans to reduce offerings on these as well.

Catering adds considerably to the cost of staffing and the train service can run without catering so I expect it will over time continue to be reduced and eventually disappear on all the daytime services. I expect catering will continue on the GWR & CS sleepers as it is a key part of the service offered.

 

[DDB]

The confusing thing is I can't see how this change makes any real difference to costs as it surely takes the same number of onboard staff to deliver the snack boxes as it does sandwiches? The cost of the stock might slightly reduce but the cutbacks will be enough for me as a regular Saturday lesuire first class traveller to switch to standard so they are losing £30 a Saturday from me for probably less than £3 saving in wholesale stock costs.

 

[sh24]

There is a clear case for catering on longer distance routes (which maybe only Sheffield qualifies for on EMR) and on higher yield routes (not sure EWR fits), and on those where there is meaningful modal competition (LNER and Avanti).

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

 

[DDB]

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

It's the whole package compared to the price for the upgrade. It will also depend on things like problems getting a seat in standard etc.
I'm not expecting a full meal on a journey that for most people will be 90mins or less so the Mon-Fri offer (choice of sandwiches and snacks) feels about right. I just don't get why they are downgrading on Saturday given they are paying for a first class host anyway.

 

[sh24]

It's the whole package compared to the price for the upgrade. It will also depend on things like problems getting a seat in standard etc.
I'm not expecting a full meal on a journey that for most people will be 90mins or less so the Mon-Fri offer (choice of sandwiches and snacks) feels about right. I just don't get why they are downgrading on Saturday given they are paying for a first class host anyway.

Snack packs are typically long life so there is a saving to be made on food waste. EMR could also be testing any impact on demand if they do reduce the offer...

 

[Halwynd]

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

I feel the same; are "Dairy Milk Freddo, Mini Cheddars, Gummi Zone Pizza, Zombie Body Partz Gummies" really what anyone wants to give their children? They'd probably be better off eating the colouring pencils.

Virgin had a spell serving these 'snack packs' - they were just highly processed junk fit only for the bin.

 

[DelW]

Sounds like EMR First Class is slowly turning into SWR's with the Sheffield-St Pancras service, reduced to "Standard Plus" with a trolley service if you're lucky enough to see one, not much different to the long distance services into Waterloo.

Except that no matter how lucky you are, you'll never encounter a trolley (or any other refreshments) on board an SWR train.

 

[LowLevel]

It's the whole package compared to the price for the upgrade. It will also depend on things like problems getting a seat in standard etc.
I'm not expecting a full meal on a journey that for most people will be 90mins or less so the Mon-Fri offer (choice of sandwiches and snacks) feels about right. I just don't get why they are downgrading on Saturday given they are paying for a first class host anyway.

Saturday you get weekend first upgrades and leisure travellers have a habit of taking as much of the first class complimentary stuff as they can, I would imagine, given the usual novelty factor. Travel in the week and it isn't unusual to see regular customers take little or nothing if they don't happen to want it.

 

[dk1]

Saturday you get weekend first upgrades and leisure travellers have a habit of taking as much of the first class complimentary stuff as they can, I would imagine, given the usual novelty factor. Travel in the week and it isn't unusual to see regular customers take little or nothing if they don't happen to want it.

Which is why GA stopped offering 1st class freebies on weekends. It was embarrassing to watch how desperate many passengers behaved to get as much as they could, often wasting it.

 

[Haywain]

Which is why GA stopped offering 1st class freebies on weekends. It was embarrassing to watch how desperate many passengers behaved to get as much as they could, often wasting it.

It's only coffee/tea and biscuits, even during the week!

 

[dk1]

It's only coffee/tea and biscuits, even during the week!

Of course but back then it was crisps and orange juice too.

 

[Trainman40083]

There is a clear case for catering on longer distance routes (which maybe only Sheffield qualifies for on EMR) and on higher yield routes (not sure EWR fits), and on those where there is meaningful modal competition (LNER and Avanti).

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

Well, if you want to work, decent WiFi too.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Which is why GA stopped offering 1st class freebies on weekends. It was embarrassing to watch how desperate many passengers behaved to get as much as they could, often wasting it.

I don't want to sound snobbish but. ... I will.
My experience (as a status pass holder restricted to coffee) is that there's a big difference between weekday and Saturday 1st class passengers.
For instance, I was on East Coast (67 drag via Lincoln - sad) when someone opposite had a Weekend First upgrade. Before Peterborough on the down, he'd had Earl Grey Tea (steward returned to kitchen to brew it); water; wine. When the steward returned after Peterborough he demanded a repeat! And food as well, of course.
In the First Class Lounge at New Street on Saturday I've seen a family come in and fill their pockets with all the snacks and bottled drinks on display and walk out!
By contrast, on an early morning Down West Coast train in the week passengers often decline the food offered (even when Virgin offered a variety of attractive breakfast option).

 

[styles]

Well, if you want to work, decent WiFi too.

Is the WiFi in first class better than the WiFi in standard?

 

[dk1]

I don't want to sound snobbish but. ... I will.
My experience (as a status pass holder restricted to coffee) is that there's a big difference between weekday and Saturday 1st class passengers.
For instance, I was on East Coast (67 drag via Lincoln - sad) when someone opposite had a Weekend First upgrade. Before Peterborough on the down, he'd had Earl Grey Tea (steward returned to kitchen to brew it); water; wine. When the steward returned after Peterborough he demanded a repeat! And food as well, of course.
In the First Class Lounge at New Street on Saturday I've seen a family come in and fill their pockets with all the snacks and bottled drinks on display and walk out!
By contrast, on an early morning Down West Coast train in the week passengers often decline the food offered (even when Virgin offered a variety of attractive breakfast option).

Not snobbish at all, just honest mate. I good friend of mine used to work for Virgin Atlantic. She said the contrast between working business flights out of Heathrow compared with the predominately holiday flights from Gatwick was so stark. The former usually had their meals & drinks then wanted to be left alone whereas the latter were scavenging for everything they could possibly get throughout the journey.

 

[ChrisC]

It's the whole package compared to the price for the upgrade. It will also depend on things like problems getting a seat in standard etc.
I'm not expecting a full meal on a journey that for most people will be 90mins or less so the Mon-Fri offer (choice of sandwiches and snacks) feels about right. I just don't get why they are downgrading on Saturday given they are paying for a first class host anyway.

Almost all of my travel between Nottingham and London is off peak, with the outward journey being around lunchtime and the return from London being late morning. Therefore with my railcard I make use of the Super Off Peak Return and always travel first class as it’s approx £55 standard and £87 first class. The main reason for travelling first class is being able to get a seat in a less crowded carriage and above all being able to store my luggage relatively close by and within sight. It’s also usually a quieter journey with less chance of having to endure loud noises from phones etc or even badly behaved children. At £32 extra, £16 each way, the complimentary refreshments are an added bonus. I find the usual offering of hot drinks, bottled water, biscuits and snacks, plus sandwiches and even sometimes a salad to be quite good for a journey of little more than 90 minutes. I don‘t travel on Saturdays very often so probably won’t experience the snack boxes. I must add that I almost always find the EMR first class hosts extremely friendly and helpful.

The big question now for me is will I continue to pay the extra to travel first class with the introduction of the 810s. With overhead racks which will accommodate my small case, if it works out that there is plenty of seats and no overcrowding at off peak times, I may begin to travel standard class especially if the difference in price was to increase in the future.

 

[JamesT]

Is the WiFi in first class better than the WiFi in standard?

I expect it will be technically the same, but with fewer devices to compete with for airtime and fewer bags of liquid absorbing the signal you’ll get a better experience.

 

[Butts]

There is a clear case for catering on longer distance routes (which maybe only Sheffield qualifies for on EMR) and on higher yield routes (not sure EWR fits), and on those where there is meaningful modal competition (LNER and Avanti).

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

Baggage Allowance, Seat Choice, Fast Track Security and possibly half decent more substantial offering of food and drink in the Lounge ?

 

[BeijingDave]

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

Yes, absolutely.

And also, as someone who flies frequently from Manchester to Shanghai or Beijing via Munich, Amsterdam or Heathrow, a lot of these Business Class travellers on short haul in Europe are just doing the first leg of a long haul journey.

It's pretty much impossible to 'de-select' the Business Class option on the short journey if you buy a Business Class ticket, it is assumed the long haul Business Class passenger will expect it. If you can de-select it, you probably wouldn't get any saving.

 

[Frontera2]

Personally I’d prefer a return to the InterCity model whereby a meal wasnt included in first - if you wanted one you could pay for a really high quality, restaurant style meal.

In France, for example, first class on TGV services doesn’t include anything complimentary refreshment wise, yet these services are often extremely busy.

Give too much away and charge too little for it and you ultimately end up downgrading the product. The target demographic for first isn’t those travelling on the cheapest advances who want to get as much free stuff as they can.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2026 ==

I don't want to sound snobbish but. ... I will.
My experience (as a status pass holder restricted to coffee) is that there's a big difference between weekday and Saturday 1st class passengers.
For instance, I was on East Coast (67 drag via Lincoln - sad) when someone opposite had a Weekend First upgrade. Before Peterborough on the down, he'd had Earl Grey Tea (steward returned to kitchen to brew it); water; wine. When the steward returned after Peterborough he demanded a repeat! And food as well, of course.
In the First Class Lounge at New Street on Saturday I've seen a family come in and fill their pockets with all the snacks and bottled drinks on display and walk out!
By contrast, on an early morning Down West Coast train in the week passengers often decline the food offered (even when Virgin offered a variety of attractive breakfast option).

Agree with this 100%

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2026 ==

There is a clear case for catering on longer distance routes (which maybe only Sheffield qualifies for on EMR) and on higher yield routes (not sure EWR fits), and on those where there is meaningful modal competition (LNER and Avanti).

I continue to be confused by those who chose First for some mediocre snacks. It's like the people who buy European business class for a crappy airline meal. The benefit is space, a more comfy seat and relative tranquility, surely?

I agree with most of this except for the flight bit. Many people may be connecting into other long haul routes. That aside, for me, if it’s only £50 then I’ll often upgrade because:

- The lounge at the airport is a haven of calm usually ( as long as the “OnThe Beach” crowd aren’t in there ) plus handy for work

- Extra airmiles

- Attentive service onboard

 

[Haywain]

Personally I’d prefer a return to the InterCity model whereby a meal wasnt included in first - if you wanted one you could pay for a really high quality, restaurant style meal.

I believe that a reason for stopping this was that first class seats became full of people with standard class tickets just buying a meal as an upgrade. It was certainly something I did many times - have an upgrade to first for the price of a decent breakfast.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So for the proper First Class with the trimmings, it'd probably be only LNER, AWC, TfW Premier and the GWR & CS sleepers - unless unsurprisingly there are plans to reduce offerings on these as well.

Very generous of you to include GWR in that.

Also worth including that LNER and TfW are both a gamble now. The 67 reliability makes booking it a total lottery, particularly as often early services that DO get a 67 come without a chef. The food is of course paid for additionally, on top of the already high first class fares, and is expensive at that.

And LNER's ridiculously stingy Deli menu and the very poor breakfast offering for Deli and Dish services aren't much better than what CrossCountry offer.

In fact, TransPennine Express offer much more sustenance on their West Coast services than LNER do on Deli (or Dish in a morning).

All West Coast 397 and 802 services offer a full breakfast with bacon, sausages, black pudding, frittata, and beans, and they have hot meals with dessert, alcohol and cheeseboard on all afternoon departures.

 

[Fokx]

they have hot meals with dessert, alcohol and cheeseboard on all afternoon departures.

There's no dessert on any TPE service.

If you're refering to the previous 'loaf cake slices, these have been discontinued.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Virgin had a spell serving these 'snack packs' - they were just highly processed junk fit only for the bin.

The weekend picnic boxes that followed were definitely more filling, usually containing a choice of wrap or sandwich akin to that offered on the LNER Deli menu today, with crisps, signature Uglies chocolate, and pretzels. If you were travelling on a long journey they'd normally give you another after an hour or so, and they'd constantly offer more chocolates.

There's no dessert on any TPE service.

If you're refering to the previous 'loaf cake slices, these have been discontinued.

Fair enough, but they do offer a cheeseboard.
The current one includes "Blue Murder" and smoked Lammermuir Wensleydale, with cranberries, onion chutney and a cracker selection.

I don't like cheese myself but those that do will likely be happy with that.

 

[Fokx]

Fair enough, but they do offer a cheeseboard.
The current one includes "Blue Murder" and smoked Lammermuir Wensleydale, with cranberries, onion chutney and a cracker selection.

I don't like cheese myself but those that do will likely be happy with that.

It's a good Cheeseboard, but for clarity of members that may not be aware the cheeseboard is a main and is served instead of a hot meal, rather than in addition to.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's a good Cheeseboard, but for clarity of members that may not be aware the cheeseboard is a main and is served instead of a hot meal, rather than in addition to.

No! That's very tight.
Still, at least they offer a full breakfast on all morning services (LNER have downgraded it to a small minority, and pretty much southbound trains only), and a hot meal for all afternoon ones.

Definitely better than the crisps you used to get on a 350 and a much better seat and ambience too. (Avanti have done the opposite with the 807s working former 390 routes, if you ask me. The First Class Evero seats are a joke.)

 

[Frontera2]

I believe that a reason for stopping this was that first class seats became full of people with standard class tickets just buying a meal as an upgrade. It was certainly something I did many times - have an upgrade to first for the price of a decent breakfast.

Did they not sometimes enforce this on longer journeys though, by making passengers return to their seat in standard? In reality wasn’t it really only ECML where this was as an option?

What I’m looking forward to under GBR is standardisation of the soft product in first class on InterCity services as the current mismatch isn’t good. That for me was one of the benefits of the intercity brand, you generally knew what you were getting if the train was branded as IC.

Lets say I had to travel for work in first class across the country for a week, this would be my experience:

Monday: Norwich - Lucky to get anything but if I do, it’s a cup of coffee. No problem, I know where I stand for my next journey.

Tuesday: Newcastle - Because of my experience to Norwich, I bring lunch with me , but then surprised to see I get a ”free” lunch and a glass of wine.. Maybe Monday was a mistake, and this is what it should be.

Wednesday: Sheffield - I don’t bother bringing my lunch because of yesterdays experience, am disappointed because I only get a coffee and a biscuit, or a sandwich if I’m lucky.

Thursday: Liverpool - i bring my own lunch again but surprised to see I don’t need it

Friday: Swansea: Just another cup of coffee and a biscuit / slice of cake.

I would argue that none of these routes are competing against one another, so surely a standard offering with a really strong brand would be a better outcome?