Epping Forest MP complains over Epping waiting times on the Central Line

[RM1_Enthusiast]

I don’t think there’s a specific thread for the Central line on where I can post this info, so made this instead

Epping Forest’s MP - Dr Neil Hudson, has been continuously complaining about the graffiti issues on this line and the waiting times for Epping bound trains over the last few months!

For anyone that has Facebook, here’s one of the complaints he made about the graffiti issues during recent weeks, which I do know there’s a thread on this already -

Dear Mayor of London and Transport for London if we #CentralLine users have been good girls & boys, please can we have a Christmas present of a graffiti free Central Line?
It would be lovely in 2026 if our line didn't feel like Gotham City.

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And another post made by the MP about the Epping waiting times, where he has mentioned on how people are having to wait longer for an Epping train (the example showed a 17 minute wait) over the Hainault via Newbury Park branch (where in the example, there was one in 2 minutes and one in 11) -

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London - the #CentralLine service we are receiving on the Epping and Chigwell branches compared to Hainault is unacceptable & beyond a joke!
Please can we in Epping Forest have a reliable, regular, timely & preferably graffiti-free service!

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[Mattplans]

The Epping Forest MP has a lot of nerve

 

[Kite159]

And could you possibly quote what the MP has been saying as per the forum rules, rather than just posting a link to the Fakebook website?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Dear Mayor of London and Transport for London if we #CentralLine users have been good girls & boys, please can we have a Christmas present of a graffiti free Central Line?
It would be lovely in 2026 if our line didn't feel like Gotham City.

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London - the #CentralLine service we are receiving on the Epping and Chigwell branches compared to Hainault is unacceptable & beyond a joke!
Please can we in Epping Forest have a reliable, regular, timely & preferably graffiti-free service!

Cheap political points scoring from an MP whose constituency is not in London and whose residents do not contribute to the running costs of London's transport network.

 

[357]

When I lived on the Hainault branch a little over ten years ago - it always felt like Epping got the preferential treatment!

 

[Recessio]

Cheap political points scoring from an MP whose constituency is not in London and whose residents do not contribute to the running costs of London's transport network.

I've always wondered how the outer end (i.e. the sections outside of Greater London) of the Central line got to be in Zones 4, 5 and 6, but the outer Metropolitan and Lioness lines in Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire get pushed into Zones 7, 8 and 9. TfL confirmed in an FOI that they don't get any subsidy from Essex County or Epping District Councils towards the Central line, so I wonder why the Essex section seems to get preferential treatment.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I've always wondered how the outer end (i.e. the sections outside of Greater London) of the Central line got to be in Zones 4, 5 and 6, but the outer Metropolitan and Lioness lines in Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire get pushed into Zones 7, 8 and 9.

Roding Valley, Chigwell, and Grange Hill were put into zone four because both Hainault and Woodford were in zone four. Given how lightly used the stations are, it made sense.

I can only assume that Debden, Theydon Bois, and Epping were moved into zone 6 from outside the zones for commercial reasons, probably because Loughton and Buckhurst Hill (also in Essex) were already in the zones and it is all LUL.

Beyond Moor Park, the fares are inter-available with National Rail, so TfL wouldn't have found it so easy to include those stations in zones 1-6; the TOC would have had to agree. The TOC agrees when its in their interest (e.g. the Caterham, Epsom Downs, and Tattenham Corner branches) but otherwise they do not (e.g. Epsiom).

 

[NCT]

Cheap political points scoring from an MP whose constituency is not in London and whose residents do not contribute to the running costs of London's transport network.

And whose party did their best to screw over TfL during the Covid years.

 

[CryoraptorA303]

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London - the #CentralLine service we are receiving on the Epping and Chigwell branches compared to Hainault is unacceptable & beyond a joke!
Please can we in Epping Forest have a reliable, regular, timely & preferably graffiti-free service!

Hainault branch - Suburban line directly feeding into Newham from Ilford. Population in the hundreds of thousands.

Epping Branch - After Woodford, serving a moderate-size town and then a smallish country town. Population of Epping is ~40,000.

"bUt HaInAuLt HaS a MoRe FrEqUeNt SeRvIcE!!!!"

Absolutely political point scoring.

It's not even true anyway, I was on the Central line a couple weeks ago and more services were going up the Epping branch than Hainault. Some (or most) terminate at Loughton or Debden as, you know, Epping only has two platforms and can only station two trains at once, so if you want a more frequent service, some have to stop and turn around a few stops earlier, otherwise you're going to very quickly cause severe delays.

When I lived on the Hainault branch a little over ten years ago - it always felt like Epping got the preferential treatment!

I'm originally from Hainault, so I'm qualified to talk about this:

Back in the day it was indeed 3-4 Epping branch-bound trains to one Hainault-bound train, or at least it seemed that way the majority of the time from what I can remember. More often than not, if we'd ventured out further than Wanstead, we'd be waiting for 2-3 Epping-bound services to go by before ours turned up.

Nowadays it seems more of a 2:1 relationship, but I would almost certainly bet that more services go up the Epping branch. No idea how or why the relationship has shifted given the number of services is ultimately the same as 14 years ago.

 

[RM1_Enthusiast]

And could you possibly quote what the MP has been saying as per the forum rules, rather than just posting a link to the Fakebook website?

Sure! Two of his complaints have already been shown by another commentator, there has been more made!

He has been making an awful amount of complaints over the graffiti issue, it’s quite a lot for a MP who is outside of London. He’s been doing this for a really long time now, mostly repeating the same issues.

This was on 16th June 2025

The graffiti on the #CentralLine is awful and is getting worse. It's like something out of Gotham City.The Labour Mayor of London and TfL need to get a grip and must address this damaging issue.

This was on 25th June 2025

Come on TfL and Labour's Mayor of London - enough is enough!
The #graffiti on the Central Line is awful and is getting worse day by day.
As I keep banging on, please get a grip of this and sort this out!

This was on 31st July 2025

Come on Transport for London and Labour's Mayor of London, please sort this situation now!

The graffiti on the Central Line is still getting worse day by day. So, along with delays, overcrowding, screeching rail noise & the oppressive heat, we are all enduring this wave of graffiti.

Please act!

This was on 22nd October 2025

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London, please get a grip of the Central Line!

As I keep banging on about, the graffiti is still getting worse day by day. Along with the delays, overcrowded trains and screeching rail noise, the people of Epping Forest and London deserve a better service!

This was on 28th October 2025

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London enough is enough!

Please tackle the graffiti problem on the Central Line!

Feels more like we're in a scene from a Batman movie in Gotham City

This was on 13th November 2025

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London, please tackle the graffiti on our Central Line!

I will keep banging on about this. It's like this every single day and is getting worse. At least try something: CCTV, signage, patrols on trains.

People are fed up and upset. Please act now!

This was on 5th December 2025 -

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London once again I urge you to sort this #graffiti epidemic on the #CentralLine. It gets worse and worse each day. Try signage, CCTV, staffing trains to deter this.

I raised this in UK Parliament this week. Folk are really fed up and upset with this.

His one about the Epping waiting times -

Come on Mayor of London and Transport for London - the #CentralLine service we are receiving on the Epping and Chigwell branches compared to Hainault is unacceptable & beyond a joke!

Please can we in Epping Forest have a reliable, regular, timely & preferably graffiti-free service!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2025 ==

When I lived on the Hainault branch a little over ten years ago - it always felt like Epping got the preferential treatment!

Tbh I had mixed opinions on this, sometimes the Hainault branch is more frequent and sometimes the Epping branch is more frequent!

Had to get the Elizabeth line once because the next train towards Hainault via Newbury Park was in 20 minutes

 

[xtmw]

Some (or most) terminate at Loughton or Debden as, you know, Epping only has two platforms and can only station two trains at once, so if you want a more frequent service, some have to stop and turn around a few stops earlier, otherwise you're going to very quickly cause severe delays.

Quick clarification - Debden is no longer a regular reversal move. The east end signaller may request a train is put into Debden siding, however you won't seen it often.

Is the MP also aware that Woodford - Hainault (via Chigwell) is a 3 train per hour service along with the CLIP programme, which includes addition of CCTV in the passenger saloon ?

 

[35B]

He’s doing this as part of a concerted campaign against Sadiq Khan. It’s amplifying existing gripes and using them to portray an out of touch mayor, while making himself appear like he’s working for constituents.

 

[boiledbeans2]

[...]
He has been making an awful amount of complaints over the graffiti issue, it’s quite a lot for a MP who is outside of London.
[...]

IMHO, he can complain if he's a Central Line user. Does it matter if he is an MP outside of London?

 

[Tester]

I've always wondered how the outer end (i.e. the sections outside of Greater London) of the Central line got to be in Zones 4, 5 and 6, but the outer Metropolitan and Lioness lines in Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire get pushed into Zones 7, 8 and 9. TfL confirmed in an FOI that they don't get any subsidy from Essex County or Epping District Councils towards the Central line, so I wonder why the Essex section seems to get preferential treatment.

That is interesting.

My understanding is that there was some financial consideration, which explained the Essex/Hertfordshire discrepancy. Maybe that has changed?

As a Zone 8 resident, I declare an interest!

 

[AM9]

This is typical Essex attitude. It wants the benefits of proximity to London but rapidly distances itself from any obligation to contribute. If the Epping politician wants to complain, County Hall is in Chelmsford, not in docklands. Central line services are not part of the National Rail network.

 

[PeterC]

Half the population of Chesham, 3 times as many trains and cheap fares. As Shakespeare almost said "The honourable member doth protest too much, methinks"

I must confess a vested interest as another zone 8 resident

 

[D1537]

I see Hudson is proving as spectacularly useful to his constituents as he was when he was MP for Penrith and the Borders ...

 

[Recessio]

That is interesting.

My understanding is that there was some financial consideration, which explained the Essex/Hertfordshire discrepancy. Maybe that has changed?

As a Zone 8 resident, I declare an interest!

From Freedom Of Information request FOI-0783-1718 21 September 2017:

You asked:
By the 1990’s, Essex County Council gave financial support to London Underground Limited (now Transport for London) in relation to subsidising the fares. Whereas now, for example, Amersham/Chesham remain in Zone 9 (was C), Epping is Zone 6. Can you please confirm if this still happens, how much is given to TfL by ECC? If not, when did this stop?

We answered: No fares subsidy have been received from Essex County Council since the inception of TfL in 2000 and we are not aware of any payments being made in the 1990s. The Epping branch was moved into Zone 6 in 1997 as a TfL initiative. The Metropolitan Line to Amersham/Chesham continues to have stations in zones 7 to 9 because this is a joint line with Chiltern Railways and fares have to reflect the fact that the line extends beyond Amersham. There was an arrangement with Epping Forest District Council (not Essex County Council) from 2001 to give elderly and disabled residents of EFDC reduced fares on local buses and the central line. This ended in 2008 with the introduction of the existing scheme under which all elderly and eligible disabled people receive free local bus travel in England. This was financed by EFDC.

 

[urbophile]

Sure! Two of his complaints have already been shown by another commentator, there has been more made!

He has been making an awful amount of complaints over the graffiti issue, it’s quite a lot for a MP who is outside of London. He’s been doing this for a really long time now, mostly repeating the same issues.

This was on 16th June 2025

What's the betting that most of the graffiti is the work of scallies from Essex?

 

[Timmyd]

regardless of the political points, the graffiti situation on the Central Line is out of control and nothing seems to be being done to address it. I welcome MPs with constituents on the Central Line, whatever their party, putting pressure on TFL and the Mayor to address it, the recent improvements on the Bakerloo Line shows it can be done.

 

[Mawkie]

and nothing seems to be being done to address it.

Apart from the 3000 pieces of graffiti removed every week?

London Underground: Thousands of pieces of graffiti removed weekly

Transport for London says its teams are "working around the clock" to tackle the vandalism.

www.bbc.co.uk

Transport for London (TfL) says it is removing about 3,000 pieces of graffiti each week on the Central and Bakerloo Tube lines.

And the £11m spent so far...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/tube-tfl-graffiti-cost-b1262867.html

Transport for London (TfL) is spending up to £11 million annually on cracking down on graffiti on Tube trains, it has emerged.

 

[Russel]

He has been making an awful amount of complaints over the graffiti issue, it’s quite a lot for a MP who is outside of London. He’s been doing this for a really long time now, mostly repeating the same issues.

This was on 16th June 2025


This was on 25th June 2025


This was on 31st July 2025


This was on 22nd October 2025


This was on 28th October 2025


This was on 13th November 2025


This was on 5th December 2025 -

Regarding the graffiti, regardless of where his constituency is, he's not wrong though, graffiti on the central line is getting worse.

Apart from the 3000 pieces of graffiti removed every week?

I get that money and resources aren't unlimited, but it clearly isn't enough, it looks as if removing 3000 pieces of graffiti isn't keeping up with how quickly it is being applied.

What we really need is a blitz on anti-social behaviour in general from the Met and BTP, but we will leave that one there...

 

[RM1_Enthusiast]

regardless of the political points, the graffiti situation on the Central Line is out of control and nothing seems to be being done to address it. I welcome MPs with constituents on the Central Line, whatever their party, putting pressure on TFL and the Mayor to address it, the recent improvements on the Bakerloo Line shows it can be done.

Even on the Central Line, the trains are in a slightly better state than before, I’m more seeing the graffiti externally than on the interior on these trains, shows that at least something is being done!

 

[Tramfan]

Is the Central Line still working to WTT (working timetable) number 70, which is the one linked on the TfL website? Don't know if it was just because of the Christmas period, but the WTT didn't seem to quite match what the journey planner was showing.

 

[Russel]

Even on the Central Line, the trains are in a slightly better state than before, I’m more seeing the graffiti externally than on the interior on these trains, shows that at least something is being done!

What isn't helping the Central Line is, even without graffiti, the 92 stock has a dingy, run down interior.

I know about the 92 stock refurb program, but let's be honest, that's moving at a glacial pace so is a bit of a mute point.

 

[xtmw]

I do think it is important to note that usually trains with graffiti are withdrawn from service until they have been cleaned. With the ongoing shortage of rolling stock on the Central, I believe it's a case of getting trains into service regardless of graffiti or no graffiti. No doubt this has been raised several times.

 

[Dstock7080]

Is the Central Line still working to WTT (working timetable) number 70, which is the one linked on the TfL website? Don't know if it was just because of the Christmas period, but the WTT didn't seem to quite match what the journey planner was showing.

TTN210/25 24-28 December; TTN105/24 29-30 December; TTN210/25 31 December-1 January; TTN49/25 2-4 January then reverts back to TTN37/25.

WTT70 hasn’t operated since 5 June 2023.

 

[Tester]

From Freedom Of Information request FOI-0783-1718 21 September 2017:

Thank you.

Although not specifically mentioned, the Lioness situation is more akin to the Met than the Central - so I guess I just have to suck it up!

On the bright side, Watford's train service is somewhat better than Epping's

 

[rmHawk765]

A bit of a hot take - as much as I understand it is somewhat unreasonable for an Essex MP to be complaining about an LU service which they do not subsidise, TfL ultimately continues running the service... it is only fair to be disappointed given TfL does not really show any objection to running the service.

Then again, it also feels weird for me to be saying that, as my area which is actually within Greater London gets a considerably poorer service overall. This trend persists across Hertfordshire unfortunately, despite the populations certainly warranting a good service. Sure it's not LU or even TfL in any capacity, but it is just not acceptable regardless. Blame GTR.

 

[Pegpilot]

Well from the days when I was involved with the LUL anti-graffiti efforts, Loughton Sidings was certainly considered bandit country and I see from WTT70 that 10 trains are still offered for service from there every weekday. Given that the sidings are surrounded by woods which offer ample cover for the vandals, I'd wager that Loughton is still a source of much of the external graffiti on 92 stock.