New XC fleet by 2035 ?

[quantinghome]

I think a new type of 7/8/9 cartridge train with level-ish boarding will be procured.
Level boarding being the key feature that probably rules out any train model today.

The 170s could be replaced by a 5 carriage versions of whatever GWR/SWR/Chiltern end up buying.

Cross Country could be so much more than what it is today. Country wide Intercity services people know across the country.

Alas...

Yes, it could be much more, and it needs to be. It would require new infrastructure though. The route north out of Sheffield is a massive constraint. Having trains terminate at Nottingham is also a massive waste of the limited paths through Birmingham New Street, as well as being a huge constraint on Nottingham - the station is in the middle of the country yet is functionally a terminus. Four XC trains an hour can leave New Street on the north-east arm of the X. Half of them terminate 45 miles away. A few miles of new route around the north-west of Newark would allow XC to send services to Leeds and Newcastle via Nottingham.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Oct 2025 ==

Raw numbers using the station are not necessarily the best indicator of intercity demand – a high proportion of usage is inbound commuting from nearby towns like Ely, Royston and Newmarket, as well as commuters from Cambridge to London. That said, Cambridge clearly is an important city and more so than its population figures would suggest in terms of tourism, industry and its university, and the current XC offering is pretty poor in that context.

I used the Cambridge XC service earlier this year. I must say it does feel rather rural in place, but pretty well used. In those respects it's quite similar to the Anglia Main Line once you're past Ipswich. Like that latter line, it's nothing a decent length Stadler unit couldn't sort out.

 

[William3000]

Raw numbers using the station are not necessarily the best indicator of intercity demand – a high proportion of usage is inbound commuting from nearby towns like Ely, Royston and Newmarket, as well as commuters from Cambridge to London. That said, Cambridge clearly is an important city and more so than its population figures would suggest in terms of tourism, industry and its university, and the current XC offering is pretty poor in that context.

Agreed - it’s interesting to see how high usage figures would be had the lines to St Ives and Haverhill not been closed. It means practically speaking only Ely, Royston, and Newmarket of the ring of towns are served by rail. Intercity demand I think is suppressed because of the quality and speed of the offering. Within 5 years I would expect the combined passenger numbers of the three Cambridge stations to be close to 20 million - probably around 13m at Cambridge, 2m at North, and 4m at South. And Stansted is also growing rapidly. I genuinely think a Stansted, Cambridge, Ely, Peterborough, Doncaster, Leeds/York service would be very busy. The attractiveness of direct trains would be significant.

 

[Snow1964]

When I started this thread, the XC sustainability report said they would have costed a new fleet by December 2025.

Obviously that has now passed, so wonder what happened, perhaps XC wasn't truthful and did not happen, or perhaps it did but everything being kept under wraps. There doesn't appear to have been any updates on their sustainability plans.

Our long-term ambition is clear: to significantly reduce and eventually eliminate the impact of diesel emissions on local air quality across our network.

By December 2025, we will outline indicative costs for a new fleet that meets the latest environmental and emissions standards. Subject to funding, we will roll out this fleet by March 2035 in order to reduce our CO2e emissions by 63% from our FY2024 baseline, in line with our Science Based Targets.

CrossCountry Train's Sustainability Strategy | CrossCountry Trains

CrossCountry delivers an integral part of Britain's sustainable transport network. Read more about our train sustainability policy here.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

 

[BrianW]

When I started this thread, the XC sustainability report said they would have costed a new fleet by December 2025.

Obviously that has now passed, so wonder what happened, perhaps XC wasn't truthful and did not happen, or perhaps it did but everything being kept under wraps. There doesn't appear to have been any updates on their sustainability plans.

CrossCountry Train's Sustainability Strategy | CrossCountry Trains

CrossCountry delivers an integral part of Britain's sustainable transport network. Read more about our train sustainability policy here.

www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk

What date was that document? It speaks of 'ambitions' rather than 'targets' or 'plans'. Fine words.

 

[Snow1964]

What date was that document? It speaks of 'ambitions' rather than 'targets' or 'plans'. Fine words.

Appears to be a summary of a full report, which doesn't actually have a date, but appears to be published about 3 months ago (September or early October 2025j

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/sites/default/files/accessible/CrossCountry%20Sustainability%20Strategy%202025.pdf

Interestingly since it has come out it appears when look at station usage map (based on the ORR annual station busyness from month ago), many stations served by XC are busier than pre Covid (although might be other operators trains). But there is a separate thread discussing XC overcrowding, not a fleet that might be in service in 10 (now 9) years time.

Map link

leaflet

 

[Bill57p9]

Dual voltage 110mph BEMUs for the NW-SE corridor?
The electrification gaps are only Coventry - Didcot (which surely will have been wired to Oxford by 2035) and Southcote Junction (Reading) - Basingstoke.

 

[TheGrew]

Dual voltage 110mph BEMUs for the NW-SE corridor?
The electrification gaps are only Coventry - Didcot (which surely will have been wired to Oxford by 2035) and Southcote Junction (Reading) - Basingstoke.

Whilst that would be lovely, I wonder if there is sufficient juice on the 3rd rail side to supply additional trains (this may also be a challenge on the 25Kv side, but I imagine less so). A lot of the power infrastructure in the area had to be upgraded for the Desiros (in part because of their AC, I believe). You can see evidence of this at the likes of the south side of Winchester station, where a new substation was built.
I suspect we could end up with something like an 802/810 or 897, hopefully with the 7+ coaches a set. I think Cross Country is a TOC with suppressed demand because the current experience is pretty poor.

 

[William3000]

What should replace the two and three car Turbostar class 170s on the Stansted to Birmingham New Street and Cardiff to Nottingham services.

When Cambridge South opens I can see 3 car trains between Cambridge South and Ely being very overcrowded

 

[Snow1964]

Dual voltage 110mph BEMUs for the NW-SE corridor?
The electrification gaps are only Coventry - Didcot (which surely will have been wired to Oxford by 2035) and Southcote Junction (Reading) - Basingstoke.

The wires could easily be extended a short distance if it made changeovers easier, or shortened the distance on batteries. Back in 1980s class 85s used to detach at Coventry on XC services and continue about quarter of a mile towards Leamington to a reversing point.

About a third of Didcot-Oxford already has mast bases, and there are some poles erected too. Installed before the indefinite postponement of wiring. Would be relatively easy to restart this once Oxford remodelling is complete.

There is currently about a 66 mile gap (Bromsgrove-Yate) which is probably bit long long for a BEMU but adding a few miles of wire near Cheltenham could sort that. It wouldn't be too hard to convert Bristol (and/or Cardiff services) to BEMU. Even easier if Filton bank to Temple Meads is done (as proposed by WECA)

 

[brad465]

What should replace the two and three car Turbostar class 170s on the Stansted to Birmingham New Street and Cardiff to Nottingham services.

When Cambridge South opens I can see 3 car trains between Cambridge South and Ely being very overcrowded

I'd go for BEMUs of 3-4 car length that also enable some 6-car diagrams. 170s are then cascaded somewhere where they add to an existing 170 fleet and bin off older Sprinters (like Scotrail; I'd say Northern, but the timescales we're talking about Northern would hopefully have a new fleet in production anyway). Ideally Birmingham-Derby would be electrified and the only Battery needs would be Bromsgrove-Severn Tunnel Jct, Derby-Nottingham and the Stamford and March lines.

 

[William3000]

I'd go for BEMUs of 3-4 car length that also enable some 6-car diagrams. 170s are then cascaded somewhere where they add to an existing 170 fleet and bin off older Sprinters (like Scotrail; I'd say Northern, but the timescales we're talking about Northern would hopefully have a new fleet in production anyway). Ideally Birmingham-Derby would be electrified and the only Battery needs would be Bromsgrove-Severn Tunnel Jct, Derby-Nottingham and the Stamford and March lines.

Cross Country trains are some of the most expensive per km on the network. I think all long distance cross country services should be a minimum of at least 5 cars. The Leicester to Birmingham stopping services should probably transfer to the West Midlands trains.

 

[JonathanH]

When Cambridge South opens I can see 3 car trains between Cambridge South and Ely being very overcrowded

CrossCountry won't be the only services providing a link between Cambridge South and Ely

The Leicester to Birmingham stopping services should probably transfer to the West Midlands trains.

What difference does that make in a future GBR era? The service offered still comes down to the available rolling stock, and the price comes down to overall fares policy.

Is there some magic source of funding available to the future equivalent of the WMR operation that would fund longer trains to serve Narborough, Hinckley and South Wigston (which lets not forget are outside the West Midlands) that would never be available to the CrossCountry operation?

 

[William3000]

CrossCountry aren't due to stop at Cambridge South or Cambridge North.


What difference does that make in a future GBR era? The service offered still comes down to the available rolling stock, and the price comes down to overall fares policy.

Cross Country ARE due to stop at Cambridge South unless you’ve heard something to the contrary in the last few days - the December 2025 edition of the London & South East rail map shows Cambridge South being served by Cross Country. They don’t and there are no plans to stop Cross Country services at Cambridge North but I never mentioned that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2026 ==

CrossCountry aren't due to stop at Cambridge South or Cambridge North.


What difference does that make in a future GBR era? The service offered still comes down to the available rolling stock, and the price comes down to overall fares policy.

Is there some magic source of funding available to the future equivalent of the WMR operation that would fund longer trains to serve Narborough, Hinckley and South Wigston (which lets not forget are outside the West Midlands) that would never be available to the CrossCountry operation?

Because I presume there will still be sectors albeit under the GBR banner

 

[Topological]

CrossCountry aren't due to stop at Cambridge South or Cambridge North.


What difference does that make in a future GBR era? The service offered still comes down to the available rolling stock, and the price comes down to overall fares policy.

Is there some magic source of funding available to the future equivalent of the WMR operation that would fund longer trains to serve Narborough, Hinckley and South Wigston (which lets not forget are outside the West Midlands) that would never be available to the CrossCountry operation?

There may be more interworking opportunities under GBR that presently do not exist under CrossCountry.

However, at the moment the Birmingham - Leicester and Birmingham - Stansted interwork so are an efficient use of trains. There would be a long layover for CrossCountry in Birmingham if they had dedicated Stansted stock.

 

[William3000]

CrossCountry aren't due to stop at Cambridge South or Cambridge North.


What difference does that make in a future GBR era? The service offered still comes down to the available rolling stock, and the price comes down to overall fares policy.

Is there some magic source of funding available to the future equivalent of the WMR operation that would fund longer trains to serve Narborough, Hinckley and South Wigston (which lets not forget are outside the West Midlands) that would never be available to the CrossCountry operation?

South Wigston and Narborough are local stops not really appropriate for a long distance intercity or long distance inter-regional operator. It seems an anomaly - that’s all. Hinckley is probably large enough to justify a major stop.

 

[JonathanH]

Cross Country ARE due to stop at Cambridge South unless you’ve heard something to the contrary in the last few days - the December 2025 edition of the London & South East rail map shows Cambridge South being served by Cross Country. They don’t and there are no plans to stop Cross Country services at Cambridge North but I never mentioned that.

Yes, sorry, I was wrong. I looked at RTT and saw that they haven't yet had the timing set to stop but agree that the Network Rail website suggests they will stop, but I note that they won't be the only services between Ely and Cambridge South by any means.

Cambridge South station - Network Rail

The Department for Transport published a Strategic Outline Business Case in November 2017 for a new railway station in the south of Cambridge.

www.networkrail.co.uk

September 2025

Service levels for the new station have been confirmed ahead of the December 2025 timetable change. When Cambridge South station opens, all passing services – which are operated by Greater Anglia, Great Northern, Thameslink, and CrossCountry – are expected to call at the new station from day one. The service provision is expected to be similar to current service levels at Cambridge station, offering strong regional and national connectivity for passengers using the new station. For more information read our press release.

There may be more interworking opportunities under GBR that presently do not exist under CrossCountry.

Maybe, but that also involves changing traincrew arrangements.

However, at the moment the Birmingham - Leicester and Birmingham - Stansted interwork so are an efficient use of trains. There would be a long layover for CrossCountry in Birmingham if they had dedicated Stansted stock.

Yes.

 

[nw1]

Maybe time to cut back on the extensions to Southampton etc?

No, that is going too far. The south coast is important enough to have a regular XC service; it's had one since at least the end of the 70s. This is a long-standing core route. Perhaps it needn't be hourly every single hour if the trains were longer, but certainly at the very least 2-hourly in the middle of the day Mon-Fri in the winter months (my guess at the quietest time) and hourly at any vaguely busy time.

However I do agree about the general point that XC services should be faster and feature longer, more comfortable trains.

As for whether they should be used as commuter trains - perhaps differential pricing could be used to encourage commuters onto non-XC services where available, but this should be done on a case-by-case basis and not where XC is the only viable option. Running non-stop through places with high commuter usage would have the unacceptable problem that those places would lose their long-distance XC connectivity.

 

[Topological]

Maybe, but that also involves changing traincrew arrangements.

Yes.

Without knowing the specifics, I did wonder if the Stansted stock could continue to Hereford or Shrewsbury, whilst a more local train interworked with the Birmingham - Leicester stock under GBR.

That would bring the risk of transferring delays. That risk could be mitigated slightly by the layover at Birmingham New Street being somewhere between what the CrossCountry 170s currently have and the 40+ minutes between a Stansted arrival and a Stansted departure.

So a change under GBR that splits Birmigham-Leicester from Birmingham-Stansted is not unthinkable. However, under CrossCountry it is.

 

[nw1]

South Wigston and Narborough are local stops not really appropriate for a long distance intercity or long distance inter-regional operator. It seems an anomaly - that’s all. Hinckley is probably large enough to justify a major stop.

I would say the natural fit for those kinds of places would be a Birmingham-Leicester "stopper", operated by either the West Midlands or East Midlands regional operation. This could for example be on the opposite half-hour to the XC which could run fast through those stops, with the two combining to produce 2tph Birmingham-Leicester.

 

[778]

South Wigston and Narborough are local stops not really appropriate for a long distance intercity or long distance inter-regional operator. It seems an anomaly - that’s all. Hinckley is probably large enough to justify a major stop.

Liverpool - Norwich should really be an XC service and Birmingham -Leiceseter/Stanstead should be an EMR service.

 

[William3000]

Yes, sorry, I was wrong. I looked at RTT and saw that they haven't yet had the timing set to stop but agree that the Network Rail website suggests they will stop, but I note that they won't be the only services between Ely and Cambridge South by any means.

Cambridge South station - Network Rail

The Department for Transport published a Strategic Outline Business Case in November 2017 for a new railway station in the south of Cambridge.

www.networkrail.co.uk

Maybe, but that also involves changing traincrew arrangements.

Yes.

The problem is - that they are the fastest trains between Cambridge South and Ely and don’t stop at Cambridge North and Waterbeach so will be attractive before the pile on at Cambridge (Central).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Jan 2026 ==

Liverpool - Norwich should really be an XC service and Birmingham -Leiceseter/Stanstead should be an EMR service.

My understanding is that all Crosscountry services go through or to Birmingham. Personally I would switch the destinations from Norwich to Birmingham and from Stansted Airport to Liverpool Lime Street.

 

[Roast Veg]

The electrification gaps are only Coventry - Didcot (which surely will have been wired to Oxford by 2035)

It will not be. We will be lucky if even the current projects are complete before then.

 

[Pete_uk]

Top and tail 99s with 8 or 9 trailers between them.
Cheaper that a new design bi mode multiple unit?

 

[43096]

Top and tail 99s with 8 or 9 trailers between them.
Cheaper that a new design bi mode multiple unit?

99s are 100mph max in the passenger variant...

 

[Russel]

Top and tail 99s with 8 or 9 trailers between them.
Cheaper that a new design bi mode multiple unit?

Not a bad shout, that.

 

[Brubulus]

Top and tail 99s with 8 or 9 trailers between them.
Cheaper that a new design bi mode multiple unit?

This is probably the most effective way to structure a XC fleet replacement, as capital costs are likely to be far lower than replacement with bi mode units. I'd expect to see 8 coaches, with 1 driving coach and 7 intermediate coaches.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Were the mk5s cheaper than an equivalent unit? Not sure where the certainty that would be cheaper comes from.

Any carriages are gonna likely have to be a brand new design.

 

[vuzzeho]

Top and tail 99s with 8 or 9 trailers between them.
Cheaper that a new design bi mode multiple unit?

There aren't enough 99s for that. Even if you ordered more, they only have a top speed of 75mph, which would be woefully inadequate. Also, you'd need an entirely new fleet of coaching stock (Mk6s?) unless you got more Mk5as and modified the 99s for those. But there's also no benefit of any of that over a multiple unit other than pleasing a few enthusiasts who like loco hauled trains. The only benefit may be cost.

 

[Brubulus]

There aren't enough 99s for that. Even if you ordered more, they only have a top speed of 75mph, which would be woefully inadequate. Also, you'd need an entirely new fleet of coaching stock (Mk6s?) unless you got more Mk5as and modified the 99s for those. But there's also no benefit of any of that over a multiple unit other than pleasing a few enthusiasts who like loco hauled trains. The only benefit may be cost.

Obviously the 99 platform would have to be modified, but I'd suspect that both purchase and maintainace costs would be lower than modern bi-mode multiple units, which are incredibly expensive compared to loco + coaches.

 

[Kite159]

Loco hauled stock will likely never happen.

The logical route would be a fleet of 9 coach 805 style units (in terms of seats, having a little shop area), it can be spun as saving jobs in the North East. And if they use the same dimensions as the existing Hitachi units it won't be a big issue for route clearance