It's the same on Southern. 1J92 Bognor to London Bridge isn't running all week.
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Experiences of service recovery (or lack of) on GTR Great Northern
- Thread starter Failed Unit
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Why are peak fares still being charged for such a reduced service?
The justification seems to be little more than "because we can".
There were quite a few complaints on Twitter about the morning peak - people being left behind due to not being able to board overcrowded trains. GN's response was basically 'tough'.
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Given they have staffing issues all the rest of the time, that wouldn't be surprising! But they could at least try to communicate they only intend to operate a reduced service - given they've never done this before, there's no reason you'd expect them to do so this year, so they need to actually put up posters or something. Maybe even produce a timetable booklet showing the amended services, as FCC used to do for the Christmas period...
And it is a bit rich to charge peak fares for what appears to be effectively the Saturday service - it was bad enough when they did that between Christmas and New Year, but at least that was something that had been done for many years. The same practice creeping back to the three days *before* Christmas is new, and unacceptable.
Magdalen Road
Member
I realised this morning that the Kings Lynn to Kings Cross service has been cut from half hourly to hourly for the GTR festive period. What would have been the second train of the day was starting at Ely instead. Where was this halving of the service advertised?
This is followed by the Christmas engineering closedown so unless I'm prepared to spend an hour each way on a replay bus, travel to London is out again.
I'll pull together my commute travel stats for 2025 later today, it's depressing reading.
This is followed by the Christmas engineering closedown so unless I'm prepared to spend an hour each way on a replay bus, travel to London is out again.
I'll pull together my commute travel stats for 2025 later today, it's depressing reading.
Robski
Member
- Joined
- 15 May 2016
- Messages
- 336
The changes were publicised on 11th December* on their website. The link was only accessible in the website sidebar menu until today, where it's now also showing on the home page of the respective GTR brands.
Until yesterday, all it was saying for non-Christmas/new year days was "An amended service will be operating" - this has now been updated to say "A Saturday service will be operating, with some additional trains during peak hours. Engineering work will be taking place in some areas".
* No one has updated the date on the webpage to reflect the changes made today..!
Until yesterday, all it was saying for non-Christmas/new year days was "An amended service will be operating" - this has now been updated to say "A Saturday service will be operating, with some additional trains during peak hours. Engineering work will be taking place in some areas".
* No one has updated the date on the webpage to reflect the changes made today..!
Steve Harris
Established Member
Yet when you look at the planned works calendar there are no works planned for today or tomorrow! So including that as an excuse is a complete red hearing and IMO dishonest.
Intercity_225
Member
I don't see any additional trains compared to a Saturday timetable!
Unfortunately, it is the historical precedent, back to BR, to use the weekday fare structure on 'workdays' over the Christmas period on London area routes, regardless of the service offered.
While it gets lifted on Intercity operators, dating back to BR days, it never has been on the commuter network, and indeed TfL don't lift it for Oyster / Contactless.
I note that GWR have continued their easements that came in some years ago to recognise the inconvenience caused by engineering blockades. An interesting point being that off-peak day travelcards are valid on GWR services all day but not for onward travel with anyone else until 0930.
Is there any reasonable form of lobby to get the position changed? My point is that it goes so far back, what is the trigger for change?
Steve Harris
Established Member
Your talking about the days between Christmas and New Year and I believe @Watershed is talking about yesterday and today (which I believe historically BR used to run a normal service, not a Saturday service).
Plus your slightly incorrect, as I can remember when Christmas day was on a Saturday and the Monday was deemed a Bank Holiday in leu (as the holiday didn't land on a Mon -Fri. However if you was a shift worker the Monday and Tuesday was classed as normal workdays). I actually travelled to London on that Monday on a Travelcard which was charged at the same price as a ticket bought on a Sunday and an amended timetable ran which was a cross between a Mon-Fri and Saturday service.
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As I’m sure you know, the peak / off peak fare structure is down to time of day, not the service offered.
IIRC peak fares were still charged during the (much) reduced services provided during and post Covid.
Did you observe overcrowding yourself?
I must say on the two peak trains I used on the GN today, plus many more I observed, I didn’t see a single person standing, let alone people unable to board.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
There is a poster at local Southern Stations colour-coded to indicate what service is running on each day over the festive period but for Monday & Tuesday this week, it says it might be affected by engineering works, not that it is a Saturday service.
Mind you, this morning, a ready reckoner poster has appeared detailing what the last trains are from Redhill and surrounding stations, which has clearly been produced by the local station team, but does the job. The website tells us it's a Saturday service with some peak hour extras, which aren't summarised anywhere.
Anyhow, service provision is more than adequate. With Thameslink as the mainstay of our services, there is very little difference between Saturday and Monday to Friday, except that in the evening rush hour, there are additional calls at Coulsdon South and Merstham on the 9Rxx's. Our driver usefully warned people they were being omitted on my train earlier.
Mind you, this morning, a ready reckoner poster has appeared detailing what the last trains are from Redhill and surrounding stations, which has clearly been produced by the local station team, but does the job. The website tells us it's a Saturday service with some peak hour extras, which aren't summarised anywhere.
Anyhow, service provision is more than adequate. With Thameslink as the mainstay of our services, there is very little difference between Saturday and Monday to Friday, except that in the evening rush hour, there are additional calls at Coulsdon South and Merstham on the 9Rxx's. Our driver usefully warned people they were being omitted on my train earlier.
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Failed Unit
Established Member
It is was sadly a fatality, doesn’t seem to be much of an attempt to recover the service at this time. No idea when the metro service will resume. 1552 WGC - London may run, but may not.
Not sure if the control has less people in on New Years day - seems typical GTR to me.
OneOfThe48
Member
The four lines were only open for five minutes before your message, which does hamper service recovery somewhat
Failed Unit
Established Member
I must admit, they are going better than normal. The Moorgate service still hasn’t really restarted. However the mainline services seem to be recovering better then normal.
Sorry for delay in response, I was away for Christmas
No, I didn't travel that day, I noted some morning posts made to GN on Twitter.Onto today, and obviously GN are severely impacted by the ongoing work at Cambridge (the second year running that has continued after Christmas/New Year to impact normal working days, but maybe that's a different conversation). On top of that, it's a bit irritating that the two trains an hour that *are* running between Ely and Cambridge North - one GN, one GA - are bunched together, leaving 50+ minutes each hour without anything running. It's better in the opposite direction, fortunately.
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
So there is a broken rail between St. Neots and Peterborough not clear which line but this has resulted in Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy, Biggleswade & Arlesey being deprived of a service in either direction. Rail replacement buses have been requested. Lets see how the new ECML timetable copes with this.
Unrelated to the ECML mess today but probably not unrelated to the 11 day Christmas/New Year closure of Cambridge (third year running) for the signalling upgrade, there were problems this morning between Cambridge and Ely. Also between Cambridge and Hitchin, which may or may not have been related. And between Ely and Kings Lynn, though that probably *was* unrelated!
I took a gamble on the 0946 off Ely running despite it being reported as 'cancelled' everywhere, and indeed it did run, albeit 15 minutes late, and with no indiction at Ely or on any online site that it would be running (it vanished from all the boards, both physically at Ely and on online 'live departures' after it passed 0946), until the stock to run it arrived on platform 3 at Ely just before 1000, when it was announced (manually) at Ely as being the delayed 0946.
Published information during disruption really needs to be better. I could see the incoming service moving towards Ely on Traksy so I could guess there was a good chance the 0946 would run once its incoming stock passed Cambridge, but you shouldn't really have to look at (and be able to interpret) such tools before deciding whether to head for the station or not. Particularly on a morning like today, with snow on the ground and temperatures around -4C.
I took a gamble on the 0946 off Ely running despite it being reported as 'cancelled' everywhere, and indeed it did run, albeit 15 minutes late, and with no indiction at Ely or on any online site that it would be running (it vanished from all the boards, both physically at Ely and on online 'live departures' after it passed 0946), until the stock to run it arrived on platform 3 at Ely just before 1000, when it was announced (manually) at Ely as being the delayed 0946.
Published information during disruption really needs to be better. I could see the incoming service moving towards Ely on Traksy so I could guess there was a good chance the 0946 would run once its incoming stock passed Cambridge, but you shouldn't really have to look at (and be able to interpret) such tools before deciding whether to head for the station or not. Particularly on a morning like today, with snow on the ground and temperatures around -4C.
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Steve Harris
Established Member
At a guess it's on the 2 track stretch between Holme Junction (North of Huntingdon) and Fletton Junction (Peterborough) (looking at Signal maps and RTT).
Thameslink services appear to be running London King's Cross - Peterborough (but with delays).
Yaxley.
Steve Harris
Established Member
Indeed. On the Southbound line.
bramling
Veteran Member
They seem to have setup an hourly KX/Peterborough TL service, but judging by how King’s Cross looked when I walked through just now (thankfully not travelling) it doesn’t seem like many of these were actually running.
Steve Harris
Established Member
RTT seems to imply otherwise
Attached is a screenshot of Trains calling at Biggleswade
Note: Trains from St Pancras Intl are actually from King's Cross and Trains to Horsham are actually being diverted to Kings Cross !
As you can see Trains are running but heavily delayed.
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No better today, 1T48 spent 9 minutes at Cambridge, to the irritation of those of us waiting for it on a very cold platform at Cambridge North. (1T50 took 8 minutes despite already being very late, 1T52 was cancelled between Kings Cross and Cambridge - are these the only 3 evening services that split?).
Mattplans
Member
Yes this is GTR's favourite. I'm mixed on it as it is very confusing. If you're at the core stations, it is very unhelpful to have their boards clogged up by trains that are cancelled and not running. But I feel they still need to be maintained somewhere to avoid further confusion. And might I add, staff are incredibly unhelpful. I am even surprised that in your case they were able to announce a service that has been removed from the boards and journey planners, unless it was reinstated to these data sources by the time they announced it.
You can find yourself wondering why the train you get every day at the same time is suddenly missing from display
Magdalen Road
Member
This morning there's a points failure near Kings Lynn 0449 Kings Lynn 1T01 abandoned at Watlington back to Kings Lynn. Next three Kings Cross services are also cancelled.
0553 Liverpool Street is running from Ely, I'm hoping the 0612 Cambridge to Kings Cross is held at Cambridge for the two trains worth of Ely - KGX passengers but not hopeful.
Going to be rather late into work today.
Let's see how long it takes to get going again.
Edit station staff let me know the incoming train to form the 0612 Cambridge KGX is running a few minutes late so we may be ok to get it. The Ely staff helpful this morning.
Edit 2: well Ely station staff came through. I asked for them to ring through to Cambridge to see if they'd hold the 0612 for the two trains worth of Ely - Kings Cross passengers, they'd rung through but weren't sure if it'd be possible but the train was held for us.
0553 Liverpool Street is running from Ely, I'm hoping the 0612 Cambridge to Kings Cross is held at Cambridge for the two trains worth of Ely - KGX passengers but not hopeful.
Going to be rather late into work today.
Let's see how long it takes to get going again.
Edit station staff let me know the incoming train to form the 0612 Cambridge KGX is running a few minutes late so we may be ok to get it. The Ely staff helpful this morning.
Edit 2: well Ely station staff came through. I asked for them to ring through to Cambridge to see if they'd hold the 0612 for the two trains worth of Ely - Kings Cross passengers, they'd rung through but weren't sure if it'd be possible but the train was held for us.
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Assuming that TL/GN are using the same back end system as GA for train displays at Cambridge, it somewhat explains why cancelled trains aren't reinstated. It seems to be a problem at GA stations too, though GA are much less eager to cancel services.
Sometimes a reinstated service will appear as a duplicate service, so there will magically be two 1830 Peterborough services, with one cancelled and one on time, for example. I've seen some funky things on those Blackbox screens, including a lot of freight recently.
I'd guess it's just a limitation of the software (a ridiculous one since it's a very expected situation).
Sometimes a reinstated service will appear as a duplicate service, so there will magically be two 1830 Peterborough services, with one cancelled and one on time, for example. I've seen some funky things on those Blackbox screens, including a lot of freight recently.
I'd guess it's just a limitation of the software (a ridiculous one since it's a very expected situation).