Could railway shift work be improved or made more gradual?

[traintee]

I always struggle to get to bed earlier if I'm on an early and a lot of the time just seem to lie there awake and not tired... Any tips? I know blackout curtains are recommended.

 

[InkyScrolls]

But to be fair thats just how it is. Anyone not able to cope with that should remain or head back to what others refer to as the real world.

Of course! I'm not complaining, I quite enjoy the variation.

 

[Lewisham2221]

I always struggle to get to bed earlier if I'm on an early and a lot of the time just seem to lie there awake and not tired... Any tips? I know blackout curtains are recommended.

I often have the same problem. Resisting the urge to nap earlier in the day can help - although it's easier said than done, and doesn't always help. Other things that I find help somewhat are:

• Trying to relax and wind down beforehand - limit caffeine intake, screen time and physical activity. I find reading a book can help.
• I find that some sort of relaxing, calming 'sleep' music helps - whether that's classical, specific sleep music, rain/ocean sounds etc. I find it helps to keep a constant noise level and helps block out any sudden sounds like a passing car, doors closing, dogs barking etc that can otherwise disturb your sleep.
• Get the temperature right. Warm and cosy sounds like it'll help you sleep, but I usually find that I sleep better if it's cooler - one of the things I notice when I'm trying to sleep for earlies is I just keep tossing & turning and getting all hot & bothered, constantly flipping the pillow over for the cold side, kicking the duvet on & off etc.

 

[Horizon22]

Could everyone be asked if they'd rather continue rotating, or do only one shift for the rest of their life (swappable with someone else by unanimous agreement)? Then, say 1000 declined, 2000 want all shift A, 3000 want shift B and 4000 want C, we end up with 2000 people permanently on all of shifts A, B and C, and the remainder (plus our 1000 recusants) continue rotating as normal. Numbers are for demonstrative purposes only, but wouldn't this reduce the proportion of people working 8 hours jetlagged?

(n.b. this assumes shifts A, B and C all require the same number of staff. Real-life considerations mean this isn't true, but I think the scheme would continue to work)

This can be done via permanent swaps and indeed is now. And as I mentioned in another post:

1. A/B/C probably don’t require the same number of shifts. Early and Late perhaps, but Mid and Nights not so much
2. There’s a lot of variance in “A”, anywhere from say 0330 to 0630.
3. In my experience, “A” will be more popular than “B”. Early shifts do seem to be preferred.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Dec 2025 ==

I always struggle to get to bed earlier if I'm on an early and a lot of the time just seem to lie there awake and not tired... Any tips? I know blackout curtains are recommended.

How much have you been up to during the day? Did you “wind down” before trying to get to sleep? Did you have a nap after you got in after your early shift? Did you eat late?

For me, I struggle particularly with the first early in a stint, but I’m a naturally “late” person so it’s just unnatural for me so I have to take the hit! But as you’ve said blackout curtains are good and avoiding distractions as best possible.

You may already know but you can do something like a “chronotype survey” which will show whether you are a ‘night owl’ or an ‘early bird’.

 

[Sorcerer]

Seniority does play somewhat of a role within the railway where a depot has “links” where the top ones often has the more ‘desirable’ work (routes) and also the more ‘sociable’ hours (e.g not the most extreme starts and finishes).

I personally don’t believe seniority should play a role as fatigue is fatigue although shift work can impact older employees more as time goes on.

Just a quick question about this. Does this mean that the older drivers get into the top links faster? Or does seniority actually mean those who have been at the depot the longest? For example, will someone becoming a driver at 40 get to the top link first even if they started a good 20 years later than someone who just about reached the legal age to start driving?

Also with talk about rest days and extreme effects on the body clock I expect this is actually part of the salary package? As I understand it some drivers have five day weeks (Sundays not included) with higher salaries at some TOCs and others have shorter weeks with lower salaries? There's obviously a bit more to it than that but I would imagine the union attitude is "we want more for what you're asking of us" to put it bluntly.

 

[Horizon22]

Just a quick question about this. Does this mean that the older drivers get into the top links faster? Or does seniority actually mean those who have been at the depot the longest? For example, will someone becoming a driver at 40 get to the top link first even if they started a good 20 years later than someone who just about reached the legal age to start driving?

Also with talk about rest days and extreme effects on the body clock I expect this is actually part of the salary package? As I understand it some drivers have five day weeks (Sundays not included) with higher salaries at some TOCs and others have shorter weeks with lower salaries? There's obviously a bit more to it than that but I would imagine the union attitude is "we want more for what you're asking of us" to put it bluntly.

Those who have been at the depot the longest. Which doesn't neccessarilly mean "oldest" in terms of age but in practice, often does.

Well people (the general public) bemoan driver salaries but the extreme shifts are certainly part of why the salaries are the way they are. Drivers across the board generally work a "4 day week" of ~9 hr shifts.

 

[RiverDon]

Just a quick question about this. Does this mean that the older drivers get into the top links faster? Or does seniority actually mean those who have been at the depot the longest? For example, will someone becoming a driver at 40 get to the top link first even if they started a good 20 years later than someone who just about reached the legal age to start driving?

At my company your seniority date is the date you were appointed to the driving grade. I will always be junior to the drivers at my depot who are a good 35 years younger than me because they started before me. At our depot there is a seniority list on the wall showing the date for every driver at the depot. It can make a difference at depots with separate links as mentioned above but I've been told at my company it also affects things if you want to move depots - if you and a driver with a higher seniority have both requested a transfer to a particular depot then they would get it instead of you just because their date is before yours, even if its just by a day. I'm hoping to move depots soon and I think I might need to go to LNER or Crosscountry to do it!

 

[Wyrleybart]

At my company your seniority date is the date you were appointed to the driving grade. I will always be junior to the drivers at my depot who are a good 35 years younger than me because they started before me. At our depot there is a seniority list on the wall showing the date for every driver at the depot. It can make a difference at depots with separate links as mentioned above but I've been told at my company it also affects things if you want to move depots - if you and a driver with a higher seniority have both requested a transfer to a particular depot then they would get it instead of you just because their date is before yours, even if its just by a day. I'm hoping to move depots soon and I think I might need to go to LNER or Crosscountry to do it!

Seniority was the time honoured system on the footplate and certainly applied well into privatisation. Footplate applied for their moves and these were pretty much all controlled by the seniority figures. For history purposes I remember many footplate crew being displaced at Beeching. Some became "put back" at their own depots whilst other moved away to other depots with the hope one day of returning to their "home" depot. On particular young hand from Bescot transferred to Radyr, and took about three years to get back. Others of a similar seniority agreed to leave the footplate and become guards.

 

[dk1]

Seniority was the time honoured system on the footplate and certainly applied well into privatisation. Footplate applied for their moves and these were pretty much all controlled by the seniority figures. For history purposes I remember many footplate crew being displaced at Beeching. Some became "put back" at their own depots whilst other moved away to other depots with the hope one day of returning to their "home" depot. On particular young hand from Bescot transferred to Radyr, and took about three years to get back. Others of a similar seniority agreed to leave the footplate and become guards.

Seniority still comes into play at my depot if two drivers have the same datum time. The senior driver picks up the earliest turn off spare. Unfortunately that doesn’t mean it has the earliest finish time.

 

[elgin eagle]

Why couldn't the shifts be grouped into early/day/late/night and at start of employment someone is grouped into one of them and only as standard works shifts within their group (but they can be moved between with good notice and a rest period).

(This is from the perspective of someone who has only ever worked fixed hours, I've never had any involvement in shift work)

Further to this, does anyone have a copy of their roster (names removed obvs) where they have managed to create 3 links successfully? By that I mean 1 link for earlies only, 1 link for back shift only, and 1 link for alternating early/back shift? At my depot we have a sizable number who prefer consistent shifts, and it's not fair on them or the roster clerk to have to organise swaps every fortnight. We have a booked Sunday roughly 1 in 3 at my depot, so it would be very simple to group the early and back shift booked Sundays and incorporate them equally and fairly into the 3 links.

Hopefully some depots have managed to improve the quality of their shift patterns and beat the broken system a little bit.