mattyharding
On Moderation
They're going to be 15 years old next year so they'll be no point putting these back in use and they're most likely getting replaced anyway
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TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion
- Thread starter Leyland Bus
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Leyland Bus
Member
I don't think they're in much of a hurry
mayneway
Member
Ironic really as there was always at least 2 B5 hybrids ‘away’ at Go North West. 3007 was away for most of the final year at Queens road along with 3013. They are knackered!
I don’t know if this sounds sad but when I’m sat on layover in Ashton and there’s a B5 on stand I can tell without looking at reg or fleet number if it’s an ex First/GNW simply buy the loud knocking sound coming from the engine.
At least the Oxford examples sound slightly more healthier apart from the whistle.
darylyates17
Member
Me thinks the ex GNWs will only stay until 15 years old then get disposed of.
mattyharding
On Moderation
So that will be next year but I think all B5s will go
mayneway
Member
It does seem likely now TFGM have stopped with the repaints and interior conversions, pretty sure all the ex Oxford ones were done so you could be right.
darylyates17
Member
Its possible but I think the Ex Oxfords will stay a little longer bring all refurbed.
mattyharding
On Moderation
Well next year Oldham's getting more EVs so it's likely everything up to the 16 plate MMCs will go
The 6 that were at queens only had a repaint as opposed to a full refurb
mattyharding
On Moderation
To be honest those non-refurbed 62 plates should not be on the road as they don't really meet the disability requirements as there's a pole blocking one of the areas
I've travelled on quite a number of Oldham's B5s this past year and while some of them can be quite sluggish others aren't too bad to be honest and seem quite reliable speed wise, I know that some drivers at Oldham do prefer the ex Oxford ones as to them these ones seem a bit quicker than the original ex Queens Road ones.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
They do meet the legislative requirements or they wouldn’t be on the road.
I get the feeling enthusiasts in Manchester are now having too much of a good thing
Expectations seem to have shifted so much that it seems any bus that isn’t brand new is seen as old and clapped out and should be being withdrawn, hence why we have these endless discussions about the older fleet demanding that they are removed from service
Expectations seem to have shifted so much that it seems any bus that isn’t brand new is seen as old and clapped out and should be being withdrawn, hence why we have these endless discussions about the older fleet demanding that they are removed from service
TheSmiths82
Member
I think part of the issue is the fact some of the older fleet is random and wasn't in the best condition when TFGM received them. As fleet allocation is now less random we get a situation where some routes are mostly using brand new buses where as other ones get to use all the casts off. If you mainly use a route which has the older buses it can give the impression that the average age of the fleet is older than it is. For example before Stockport received the Middleton buses my impression was that Stockport had mostly old cast offs nobody else wanted even though I knew that wasn't actually the case.
mayneway
Member
I still think the one depot that had it the hardest was Queens road. For the first 9 months a fleet made up of B9’s and scania’s with a sprinkling of new MMC’s that were quickly removed and sent over to the commercial side when TFGM refused to pay for them. It really did poke holes at the Bee network and made a mockery of Burnhams promises but it certainly looks a lot better now!
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Crazy statement. They wouldn’t be on the road if they didn’t meet requirements.
As you hate the hybrids so much why not email or write to TFGM with your concerns and share the reply here with us all.
mattyharding
On Moderation
In fact what I will do is next time I'm on one of the non-refurbed 62 plate B5s I'll take a picture and show you what I mean
Leyland Bus
Member
Thats as may'be but @mayneway is right, whether you think it is in a poor place or not, it is legally compliant.
Class 466
Established Member
Worth also remembering the buses that aren’t in Bee Network Spec tend to only have one wheelchair space rather than two.
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Leyland Bus
Member
Two wheelchair spaces being TfGM spec rather than standard spec ofcourse...
mayneway
Member
There’s no need.
I drove them all for many many years at Queens road and had many wheelchair users on in that time without any issues.
If you genuinely have issues with the hybrids then speak to TFGM.
mattyharding
On Moderation
It's the non-refurbished 62 plate ones that have that pole in the middle not the non-refurbished 61 plates as far as I'm aware
py_megapixel
Established Member
I think Stockport was quite an extreme example of what you describe. They seem to go out of their way to concentrate the newest stuff on the 192 and 330, so passengers away from those corridors would almost entirely see the older buses, which in some cases did feel quite seriously knackered. I am mainly thinking of the 2008-2009 E400s, and with most of those now gone, the Stockport fleet feels more modern than it has in years.
mayneway
Member
That would have been down to compliance though and most probably TFGM stipulated that the newer buses were used on the 330/192.
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I was under the impression all the ex Oxford 62 plates had been done and there was only a few of the ex GNW ones that were not having the conversion/paint.
The ex Oxford ones are probably slightly more compliant than the older GNW ones.
As an aside, I picked up someone in a huge electric wheelchair last week who had great difficultly getting on the bus and then into the wheel chair bay, and that was on a brand new BZL! Layout can often look like it’s at fault but often it’s the wheel chair and or the user. Grab poles are there for a reason. If they have been moved or removed on converted buses then it’s probably to open up the second wheel chair bay.
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py_megapixel
Established Member
That might be the case now but it goes back a lot further than TfGM - particularly on the 192. I suspect was likely to have been seen by Stagecoach as the flagship route of Stockport garage and possibly the company as a whole, and it received new batches of buses fairly frequently.
That's pretty much how it was pre Bee Network though. 192 and 330 are the flagship routes. Other routes would sometimes get newer buses but often the older ones. The difference I saw on my local routes was that suddenly we had an influx of Stagecoach green and Magic bus hybrids rather than Stagecoach standard livery diesels, but the age of the vehicles didn't change that much. We get new vehicles but Stockport interwork other routes with the 192 so they do turn up all over the place.
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The 192 had specially branded hybrids in green when they were new.
Class 466
Established Member
330 Will always have new vehicles on it with the Streetdecks restricted to only working that service.
JasonL
Member
It's to do with the height of the StreetDecks right?
There aren't nearly enough Streetdecks to run all the 330 journeys. You'll see plenty of enviro400s on it as well. Mostly new ones but there's usually a couple of older vehicles in the mix.
mayneway
Member
I’d say yes 100% regarding the 192, it was the golden goose but historically the 330 had its fair share of crap on it. For many years it was run by Ashton using the 16 plate MMC’s and E400 hybrids.
Class 466
Established Member
Well aware that it’s not 100% streetdeck, was merely pointing out that they’ll always be on it.
Yeah, and a lot of the other running boards interwork with routes that contain on the day diversionary routes that are height restricted.