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...and don't forget: 300 miles takes ~5 hours to drive unencumbered by traffic. I suspect most humans will require to stop at least once during such a journey. During which time, another 100 miles (or more) might be added to an EV's range.,
I was just imagining a return trip to London on the M4 unencumbered by traffic. I have done it, but only at the very extremes of the day.
I aim to stop about once every 2 hours, but would stop once on a 2-hour 30 journey. When I do Heathrow home non-stop, the car starts telling me to take a break near Bristol. With rapid charge I can see that I could gain a bit, but I do like to park away from the people
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I think you've been exceptionally unlucky. I've been doing about 30,000 miles a year for the past 3 years in EVs and can count on one hand the number of times I've been unable to charge.
You won't miss your diesel.
350 miles is beyond the practical motorway range of just about any EV on the market at the moment. But a 5-10 minute pit stopfor a partial charge is all it would need to get home,assuming you can't charge in the car park.
I drive an EV regularly, the one we have is really nice. We did an extended test drive on the one that we would get to replace the main car and it was another level again. In fact the only practical driving thing I didnt like was the cruise control switch being a multiway panel rather than separate switches for setting and on/off. I still dont feel 100% confident that I have switched the electric car one off when using the switch. With the manual switch there is no need to check the dash, the sound confirms its off. First world problem, but I do not know what the obsession with smooth steering wheels is.
Things like not needing to use the brake so much, and having much better acceleration are easy to get used to. Even not having engine noise is ok after a bit. I do still like the feeling of being in a machine that comes with the diesel though. Probably just force of habit though, I am certainly not a petrol head. I can though imagine others wrestling with this same question when contemplating the switch.
Seeing experiences such as yours on charging should be an encouragement. We haven't had any issues charging our EV, though it is only doing 10,000 per year and is currently only 6 months old so we aren't testing as rigorously. The only long-distance trip it does is to my wife's work and there they have a bank of chargers in the staff car park.
To go back to the original question of this thread- it would appear from contributions to this thread that the answer is "Yes mostly, but not entirely".
If you have a driveway and own your home rather than renting, then there's a good chance that an EV will work for you. However if you don't (and particularly if you live in an apartment) it probably won't. If you're determined to have an EV then you may be able to get by using public chargers, but if you're doing that the cost advantage will be much diminished, especially if/when the rather ill-conceived pay-per-mile scheme comes in.
There will also be sectors of the market that won't be able to transition unless there's a major leap forward in technology: things like agricultural equipment (combines and large tractors) and the road-rail diggers that have been working hard at Mirfield over Christmas need to be able to be worked for long periods and having to swap them out to charge would present a logistical headache to say the least.
Likewise HGVs going fully electric is a long way off, even Mr Musk has gone rather quiet on his Tesla Semi. Larger companies will get a handful of vehicles as a greenwashing PR stunt, but entire fleets switching would require a complete reworking of shift patterns to work around charging and discharging cycles.
Then there's the bottom end of the car market. Those who either choose to (or can only afford to*) do the "bangernomics" thing. Yes you can argue that's a small section of the market, but those people are often the guys who empty your bins or make sure the roads are gritted in winter (anecdotal I know, but for an example I have a friend who works on the bins and drives the gritters in winter, his daily driver is an 18 year old Subaru Forester he does 90% of the maintenance on himself).
Personally thing that puts me off EVs isn't even the fact that they're electric, it's the fact that they're new. I like proper buttons for functions like my heated rear windscreen and aircon so I'd be just as irritated by a "new" ICE vehicle. My mum replaced her hybrid Renault Captur with a full EV a couple of months ago, a Volvo EX-30. It's nice and smooth to ride in, her home charger works well, and it has enough range to get her to my brother's place in Cambridge, then back with a brief top-up charge en-route... However it doesn't have any physical buttons apart from the indicator and wiper stalks, and all other functions including the heating and aircon are voice-activated. It's got used to her voice now so works quite well, but the first couple of weeks were quite the adventure!
I know I'm being rather shown up by my mum coping with modern tech better than me, but I just prefer the organic feel and "realness" of a manual gearbox and physical controls.
*Yes, bangernomics isn't necessarily the cheapest way of doing things but it is often the only one poorer people have access to. As the saying goes, being poor is expensive!
Yes, bangernomics isn't necessarily the cheapest way of doing things but it is often the only one poorer people have access to. As the saying goes, being poor is expensive!
I don’t understand the argument that bangernomics wont work with EVs. Surely it will work much better as there are far less expensive parts to go wrong?
I don’t understand the argument that bangernomics wont work with EVs. Surely it will work much better as there are far less expensive parts to go wrong?
I think you've been exceptionally unlucky. I've been doing about 30,000 miles a year for the past 3 years in EVs and can count on one hand the number of times I've been unable to charge.
One difference might be that a lot of your miles have been commuting. If you need to charge at all on your commute, then you will have learnt where the chargers are, and have all the apps and payment stuff in place.
...and don't forget: 300 miles takes ~5 hours to drive unencumbered by traffic. I suspect most humans will require to stop at least once during such a journey. During which time, another 100 miles (or more) might be added to an EV's range.,
Personally thing that puts me off EVs isn't even the fact that they're electric, it's the fact that they're new. I like proper buttons for functions like my heated rear windscreen and aircon so I'd be just as irritated by a "new" ICE vehicle. My mum replaced her hybrid Renault Captur with a full EV a couple of months ago, a Volvo EX-30. It's nice and smooth to ride in, her home charger works well, and it has enough range to get her to my brother's place in Cambridge, then back with a brief top-up charge en-route... However it doesn't have any physical buttons apart from the indicator and wiper stalks, and all other functions including the heating and aircon are voice-activated. It's got used to her voice now so works quite well, but the first couple of weeks were quite the adventure!
I know I'm being rather shown up by my mum coping with modern tech better than me, but I just prefer the organic feel and "realness" of a manual gearbox and physical controls.
I am happy to have automatic systems when they work.
In the 1930s, you would have had levers to adjust advance and retard. My cars have sorted that out for themselves. I fitted a manual choke to a car, where the automatic choke was broken. I replaced a car with a Powershift gearbox with an equivalent car with a manual gearbox, because of failures and warnings.
My KIA EV3 has a lot of buttons as well as touch screens and voice activation. There are settings which don't have a physical button, but there aren't many that you would want to change frequently.
I am fine with the warnings for things like changes to speed limits. Some people like to turn them off, which means using the touch screen or voice controls.
I am happy to use the automatic main beam headlights and windscreen wipers, as they mostly work, and I can override them when they don't.
The collision avoidance can be annoying, when it brakes for a parked car which I have seen and know I will avoid. It didn't do anything when a deer stepped in front of my car on an A road at night. I had time to swerve, but not brake.
I don’t understand the argument that bangernomics wont work with EVs. Surely it will work much better as there are far less expensive parts to go wrong?
Bangernomics works on there being a supply of cheap but still usable cars where you can repair most things yourself.
EVs aren’t cheap, the high initial price filters into the secondhand cost. Looking at autotrader, down the bottom end it’s £1-3 thousand for an EV, whereas you can get used ICE for a few hundred. The EVs down that end are the earliest models, so Nissan Leafs that will have knackered batteries (because they didn’t have decent management), or a Renault Zoe you have to lease the battery. In the unlikely event of a battery failure, that’s almost certainly terminal as it would cost several times the value to get that replaced.
As time goes on and better EVs filter into the secondhand market things may change. But I think that looks a few years off.
Bangernomics works on there being a supply of cheap but still usable cars where you can repair most things yourself.
EVs aren’t cheap, the high initial price filters into the secondhand cost. Looking at autotrader, down the bottom end it’s £1-3 thousand for an EV, whereas you can get used ICE for a few hundred. The EVs down that end are the earliest models, so Nissan Leafs that will have knackered batteries (because they didn’t have decent management), or a Renault Zoe you have to lease the battery. In the unlikely event of a battery failure, that’s almost certainly terminal as it would cost several times the value to get that replaced.
As time goes on and better EVs filter into the secondhand market things may change. But I think that looks a few years off.
Perhaps I am unlucky. I have 0/2 successful charges at service stations. On the A1, I stopped at the McDonalds in Colsterworth, which was marked as "Services" on the roadsign. It had toilets and an Instavolt charging station, but none of the chargers were working when I was there. I assumed that it was because they were new, but they are shown on Google Streetview from 2023. They are working now. I also tried the Gridserve chargers at the Moto Reading Services. That was available but the charging didn't start.
My point is: only if you treat it as a standalone action. If you do it while you are having lunch out, shopping, (or choose your own thing that takes 20-30 minutes or more) or en route while you are satsifying your own physical needs then in those circumstances, it needn't be.
Well. For me charging would involve me driving to local places I normally walk to. For example Morrisons is the nearest - I walk there. I use the bus for further afield. It really needs me to accept car culture and drive everywhere.
To go back to the original question of this thread- it would appear from contributions to this thread that the answer is "Yes mostly, but not entirely".
If you have a driveway and own your home rather than renting, then there's a good chance that an EV will work for you. However if you don't (and particularly if you live in an apartment) it probably won't. If you're determined to have an EV then you may be able to get by using public chargers, but if you're doing that the cost advantage will be much diminished, especially if/when the rather ill-conceived pay-per-mile scheme comes in.
There will also be sectors of the market that won't be able to transition unless there's a major leap forward in technology: things like agricultural equipment (combines and large tractors) and the road-rail diggers that have been working hard at Mirfield over Christmas need to be able to be worked for long periods and having to swap them out to charge would present a logistical headache to say the least.
Likewise HGVs going fully electric is a long way off, even Mr Musk has gone rather quiet on his Tesla Semi. Larger companies will get a handful of vehicles as a greenwashing PR stunt, but entire fleets switching would require a complete reworking of shift patterns to work around charging and discharging cycles.
Then there's the bottom end of the car market. Those who either choose to (or can only afford to*) do the "bangernomics" thing. Yes you can argue that's a small section of the market, but those people are often the guys who empty your bins or make sure the roads are gritted in winter (anecdotal I know, but for an example I have a friend who works on the bins and drives the gritters in winter, his daily driver is an 18 year old Subaru Forester he does 90% of the maintenance on himself).
Personally thing that puts me off EVs isn't even the fact that they're electric, it's the fact that they're new. I like proper buttons for functions like my heated rear windscreen and aircon so I'd be just as irritated by a "new" ICE vehicle. My mum replaced her hybrid Renault Captur with a full EV a couple of months ago, a Volvo EX-30. It's nice and smooth to ride in, her home charger works well, and it has enough range to get her to my brother's place in Cambridge, then back with a brief top-up charge en-route... However it doesn't have any physical buttons apart from the indicator and wiper stalks, and all other functions including the heating and aircon are voice-activated. It's got used to her voice now so works quite well, but the first couple of weeks were quite the adventure!
I know I'm being rather shown up by my mum coping with modern tech better than me, but I just prefer the organic feel and "realness" of a manual gearbox and physical controls.
*Yes, bangernomics isn't necessarily the cheapest way of doing things but it is often the only one poorer people have access to. As the saying goes, being poor is expensive!
I agree. I can afford newer but I choose not to waste my money.
To amplify your point.
People who can afford something expensive up front (purchase price) tend to forget there is a section of society that does not have the savings to buy a newer car. An older car might need more work, but that work is often done by the owner themselves and certainly not at a main dealer. Also there is negligible depreciation - the vehicle is worth so little. So the cost of ownership is spread with no need for savings or a loan. Bangernomics also means looking at cars that have proven to be reliable and/or easy to look after - In my case almost 25 years of Vauxhall Carlton 2 litre ownership.
To get an idea of how many people choose to drive older cars look at the spread in registration numbers. Mind you also check in areas other than your own.
As for buttons. I prefer controls I can feel without looking for them.
On a Vectra I dabbled with, the indicator stalk was always at the centre position regardless of what the indicators were actually doing (semi non-mechanical). I never realised before that how much I checked what the indicators were doing by touching the stalk with my fingers - required no turn of attention from the road. I ended up often cancelling the indicators just before IT decided to cancel itself. Result was often driving down a straight road indicating left or right with no intention of turning. I actually considered that indicating legitimately was more risky than not indicating at all.
Worse still, on my latest acquisition (13 year old Honda CRV) - the sat nav has a yes button on the screen - I think it is reminding me not to look at it or touch it while driving and of course I press the bloody button to get back to the info screen. It takes a few touches to get my aim right and/or it notice my finger. This is usually done when pulling off as before that the computer is not ready. So a dangerously counter productive feature.
I don’t understand the argument that bangernomics wont work with EVs. Surely it will work much better as there are far less expensive parts to go wrong?
But it is the purchase cost (and depreciation) that excludes many owners. Some would argue it is cheaper to buy new in the long run (manufacturers do encourage you to believe that) BUT in spite of that the maintenance costs of an old car are spread over the whole life of ownership. Often maintenance costs are negligible not least because a main dealer is never involved. Remember the car probably cost little more than scrap value to buy. If a big ticket item comes up then the option is to scrap the car because there is not much value in the car or itself or its replacement.
Bangernomics works on there being a supply of cheap but still usable cars where you can repair most things yourself.
EVs aren’t cheap, the high initial price filters into the secondhand cost. Looking at autotrader, down the bottom end it’s £1-3 thousand for an EV, whereas you can get used ICE for a few hundred. The EVs down that end are the earliest models, so Nissan Leafs that will have knackered batteries (because they didn’t have decent management), or a Renault Zoe you have to lease the battery. In the unlikely event of a battery failure, that’s almost certainly terminal as it would cost several times the value to get that replaced.
As time goes on and better EVs filter into the secondhand market things may change. But I think that looks a few years off.
I hope that in 10 plus years time there are 10-15 year old EVs around with batteries that have a good life left in them. Certainly for now it is too risky. I am wary of new technology anyway - some one else can be the guinea pig thank you. The batteries will need to be more reliable than the engine without the car costing more.
Perhaps I am unlucky. I have 0/2 successful charges at service stations. On the A1, I stopped at the McDonalds in Colsterworth, which was marked as "Services" on the roadsign. It had toilets and an Instavolt charging station, but none of the chargers were working when I was there. I assumed that it was because they were new, but they are shown on Google Streetview from 2023. They are working now. I also tried the Gridserve chargers at the Moto Reading Services. That was available but the charging didn't start.
I think you are very unlucky from what you have been describing on this thread. Very occasionally I’ve had a charger that has failed to start (maybe a handful?). Once I had a charge that started but cut out (two times). On every occasion it been fixed by simply moving to an adjacent charger.
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Well. For me charging would involve me driving to local places I normally walk to. For example Morrisons is the nearest - I walk there. I use the bus for further afield. It really needs me to accept car culture and drive everywhere.
No it wouldn’t! From what you have described on this thread about your use case, you’d probably only need to charge your car once or twice a month. If that!
I am happy to have automatic systems when they work.
In the 1930s, you would have had levers to adjust advance and retard. My cars have sorted that out for themselves. I fitted a manual choke to a car, where the automatic choke was broken. I replaced a car with a Powershift gearbox with an equivalent car with a manual gearbox, because of failures and warnings.
My KIA EV3 has a lot of buttons as well as touch screens and voice activation. There are settings which don't have a physical button, but there aren't many that you would want to change frequently.
I am fine with the warnings for things like changes to speed limits. Some people like to turn them off, which means using the touch screen or voice controls.
I am happy to use the automatic main beam headlights and windscreen wipers, as they mostly work, and I can override them when they don't.
The collision avoidance can be annoying, when it brakes for a parked car which I have seen and know I will avoid. It didn't do anything when a deer stepped in front of my car on an A road at night. I had time to swerve, but not brake.
I don't like having decisions made for me by my car- if I wanted that I'd get an Uber. When I had a go in my mum's Volvo, it felt dystopian having to ask the car to turn the heat down. I've spoken in the appropriate thread about the downsides of things like automatic dipping headlights so I won't go over that again here.
Your final paragraph about the deer says it all about the "collision avoidance" systems, and demonstrates just how far we are from "full self driving" being practicable. Yes there are some drivers who need these systems, but those drivers shouldn't be on the road until they can drive without them. If a driver behaving correctly is better than the automated system then the automated system isn't fit for purpose.
Bangernomics works on there being a supply of cheap but still usable cars where you can repair most things yourself.
EVs aren’t cheap, the high initial price filters into the secondhand cost. Looking at autotrader, down the bottom end it’s £1-3 thousand for an EV, whereas you can get used ICE for a few hundred. The EVs down that end are the earliest models, so Nissan Leafs that will have knackered batteries (because they didn’t have decent management), or a Renault Zoe you have to lease the battery. In the unlikely event of a battery failure, that’s almost certainly terminal as it would cost several times the value to get that replaced.
As time goes on and better EVs filter into the secondhand market things may change. But I think that looks a few years off.
That's the key thing. At the moment there are a decent number of ICE cars on the road in the 15-20 year age range that are still reasonably reliable if well-maintained. Quite a lot of drivers have enough knowledge to do the basic maintenance tasks themselves, or know someone who does, or have a garage they trust- this makes keeping those vehicles going affordable, at least until something big fails. Even the earliest EVs aren't something that you can do much with yourself, and as the more modern examples filter down that won't get any easier. This wouldn't be so bad if it were just a skills issue, as those skills would come about over time just as they have with ICEs- but it's a safety and standards issue coupled with the wider industry (not just automotive) attitude to repairability. Although new ICE vehicles are just as bad on that front.
Often maintenance costs are negligible not least because a main dealer is never involved. If a big ticket item comes up then the option is to scrap the car because there is not much value in the car itself.
But that maintenance still involves small ticket consumables such as oil, coolant, oil filters, spark plugs, belts, exhaust sections, etc non of which are needed in an EV and all of which are needed to keep a 10+ year old car running.
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I don't like having decisions made for me by my car- if I wanted that I'd get an Uber. When I had a go in my mum's Volvo, it felt dystopian having to ask the car to turn the heat down
This is kind of irrelevant as buttons or lack of has little to do with whether or not a car is an EV. But most manufacturers are moving away from everything in the screen and back towards a sensible combination of physical buttons and screen. And EuroNCAP is making it harder to get a 5 star rating from January if certain key features don’t have physical control. The tide is turning on the everything in the screen crowd.
This is kind of irrelevant as buttons or lack of has little to do with whether or not a car is an EV. But most manufacturers are moving away from everything in the screen and back towards a sensible combination of physical buttons and screen. And EuroNCAP is making it harder to get a 5 star rating from January if certain key features don’t have physical control. The tide is turning on the everything in the screen crowd.
I agree it's more a "new car" thing than an "electric car" thing.
As for the EuroNCAP thing, the recent change regarding physical controls is to be welcomed but the changes around the same time regarding so-called "driver assist" are not. I'm sure there are some who like the touchscreens and/or everything being voice activated- and if they cotton on that that's the only reason a certain model doesn't get five stars, they'll simply ignore the rating. Just as those of us who despise the automated lane-keeping will ignore the rating of a car that is marked down solely for not having that feature. By being far too prescriptive, EuroNCAP have devalued their own rating system.
Your final paragraph about the deer says it all about the "collision avoidance" systems, and demonstrates just how far we are from "full self driving" being practicable. Yes there are some drivers who need these systems, but those drivers shouldn't be on the road until they can drive without them. If a driver behaving correctly is better than the automated system then the automated system isn't fit for purpose.
The EV3 manual says the Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist "detects a vehicle, a powered two wheeler, a pedestrian or a cyclist ahead on the road". A deer isn't on the list. Systems don't have to be perfect to be useful.
No it wouldn’t! From what you have described on this thread about your use case, you’d probably only need to charge your car once or twice a month. If that!
I would need to charge less often BUT then the use of the car is less often. It would really mean charging the car at the beginning of rare long journeys. Oh for a driveway.
But that maintenance still involves small ticket consumables such as oil, coolant, oil filters, spark plugs, belts, exhaust sections, etc non of which are needed in an EV and all of which are needed to keep a 10+ year old car running.
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But on an older car the depreciation is not there. Depreciation and loan/fiance costs [correction 15:10 26/12/2025] on new cars [/correction] dwarf the maintenance costs - especially on cars with lighter use.
This is kind of irrelevant as buttons or lack of has little to do with whether or not a car is an EV. But most manufacturers are moving away from everything in the screen and back towards a sensible combination of physical buttons and screen. And EuroNCAP is making it harder to get a 5 star rating from January if certain key features don’t have physical control. The tide is turning on the everything in the screen crowd.
Agreed and there is a swathe of ICEs of similar age to EVs with these unbearable features. It will make banger owners hang on for longer to their existing banger.
I agree it's more a "new car" thing than an "electric car" thing.
As for the EuroNCAP thing, the recent change regarding physical controls is to be welcomed but the changes around the same time regarding so-called "driver assist" are not. I'm sure there are some who like the touchscreens and/or everything being voice activated- and if they cotton on that that's the only reason a certain model doesn't get five stars, they'll simply ignore the rating. Just as those of us who despise the automated lane-keeping will ignore the rating of a car that is marked down solely for not having that feature. By being far too prescriptive, EuroNCAP have devalued their own rating system.
Yes it is the over thinking over designing mentality that spoils things. It is not just cars. When I look at newer versions of Microsoft Windows I see nothing new I need. All I see is all that was familiar has been hidden behind new menu structures. For example I now have to fish around to defragment someones disc whereas on older versions of Windows I can navigate through the menus and find the disc management software easily. Having messed around hunting for the disc management software in the "new and improved" menues on newer versions of windows I am still surprised to see that the actual software is exactly the same. They just move familiar things around - ie hide them !.
It is hopefully less of a challenge on cars but they are trying. It can be a real distraction which is unacceptable in a safety critical environment.
Sort of question.
Rear view mirror.
On my Honda CRV there is a button and a green light. I can turn the green light on and off with the button but I am clueless as to what actually happens to the mirror (or anything else) so I ignore it.
On a van, I hired, the rear view mirror was blank (bulkhead behind the driver makes that inevitable). But there were butons on the mirror (three iirc). I never did notice what they did and concentrated on driving instead.
What I did HAVE to figure out was a surprising feature on the van. I only noticed this as a loss of power above 30mph about ten miles from home when on the actual mission critical trip and far enough out of London to legally exceed 30mph !. I did not want to go back to the hire firm and swap the loaded van. I eventually guessed it hopefully might have had a speed limit set. Naturally I had to work this out and how to defeat it whilst driving at over 30mph on a crowded 50mph road with traffic lights !.
Later on, on the M40, I pulled over onto the hard shoulder when I thought I had a rapidly deflating tyre pulling me to one side. Must have been lane assist. But I desperately needed to visually check.
The above are on ICEs but equally apply to EVs of course.
I wonder how many of these "features" can be disabled permanently (as in not requiring a faff every time the ignition is turned on). My feeling (rightly or wrongly) is that on EVs these will be more built in so harder to defeat.
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The EV3 manual says the Forward Collision-Avoidance Assist "detects a vehicle, a powered two wheeler, a pedestrian or a cyclist ahead on the road". A deer isn't on the list. Systems don't have to be perfect to be useful.
BUT will a feature that detects obvious obstructions be counter productive. Will it lead to drivers concentrating less and so missing what AI cannot cope with ?.
When parking I get beeps when half a car length from the next car. I find them an annoying distraction. Passengers panicking !. Plus winds me up when a motorcyclist gets too close to my rear in a queue (you know the one that comes down the wrong side of the road and dodges in to the gap behind me when they have to). Cheeky but no need for me to know unless I plan in reversing when the lights change !!.
On my Honda CRV there is a button and a green light. I can turn the green light on and off with the button but I am clueless as to what actually happens to the mirror (or anything else) so I ignore it.
One difference might be that a lot of your miles have been commuting. If you need to charge at all on your commute, then you will have learnt where the chargers are, and have all the apps and payment stuff in place.
But on an older car the depreciation is not there. Depreciation and loan/fiance costs dwarf the maintenance costs - especially on cars with lighter use.
I’m not sure why you are talking about depreciation? In a future 10-20 years EV bangernomic environment the depreciation of old, cheap, EV won’t be a factor any more than in the present day ICE bangernomics environment.
The point I’m making is that in that future environment you won’t need to pay for many of the cheap consumables that you need to keep an old ICE car running.
I’m not sure why you are talking about depreciation? In a future 10-20 years EV bangernomic environment the depreciation of old, cheap, EV won’t be a factor any more than in the present day ICE bangernomics environment.
The point I’m making is that in that future environment you won’t need to pay for many of the cheap consumables that you need to keep an old ICE car running.
Sort of question.
Rear view mirror.
On my Honda CRV there is a button and a green light. I can turn the green light on and off with the button but I am clueless as to what actually happens to the mirror (or anything else) so I ignore it.
Looks like I need to experiment more. I remember it used to be a little mechanical lever on the bottom of the rear view mirror on old cars.
So it might have been a redundant feature on the van. I usually hang something over the rear view mirror when seeing no vehicles behind does not mean there are no vehicles behind. Just to stop me repeatedly checking hopefully.
WARNING
There really is of course a danger of comparing "features" of an ICE with an EV and forgetting the age of the vehicle makes a difference. Most comparisons people make may well be between an older ICE and their new(er) EV just acquired.
WARNING
There really is of course a danger of comparing "features" of an ICE with an EV and forgetting the age of the vehicle makes a difference. Most comparisons people make may well be between an older ICE and their new(er) EV just acquired.
If you run older cars, you can avoid features like driver assistance. With newer cars, you can avoid some by choosing the make and model, and others by checking the manual. However, if you ever hire a car or van, then its most likely to be a recent model, and you won't be able to set up everything. The manual for my car runs to 737 pages.
While you can deactivate many active safety features (sometimes with a single shortcut key, at least on my car) there is some concern that if you have an accident and it can be considered something such a system could have helped prevent, it could be used against you.
I don't know if any insurers have such clauses yet, or if they will, but it's something to keep an eye on. I'm sure they won't want to shout about it, but if they can reduce their liability they certainly will try.
Plus, these systems are on new cars in general - not just EVs. Just as touchscreens and few buttons aren't an EV thing either, even if the likes of Tesla helped start a trend that should hopefully be reversed when new Euro NCAP guidelines come in.
Plus, these systems are on new cars in general - not just EVs. Just as touchscreens and few buttons aren't an EV thing either, even if the likes of Tesla helped start a trend that should hopefully be reversed when new Euro NCAP guidelines come in.
Of all the failings with my car, the automation and severe lack of buttons aren't the ones I thought would annoy me the most. In fact, I rarely interface with the car at all.
Some of the new NCAP guidelines are well meaning, but will create additional costs in development and hardware necessity, which will lead to those costs being passed into consumers meaning even more expensive cars. We constantly hear that people want smaller, more affordable cars.
There's a good write up here for those that want to look further into it.
What’s changing in Euro NCAP's 2026 update, how it compares to the 2023 protocols, and what automakers need to prepare for.
www.smarteye.se
Driver Monitoring as a Core Safety Feature
Driver Monitoring Systems (DMS) have been part of Euro NCAP’s assessment since 2023, but the new protocols increase their scoring weight and expand their requirements.
Previously, a basic system that warned for driver drowsiness or inattention could earn a car model up to two points. In 2026, Driving Engagement is a full scoring category – with Driver Monitoring now worth up to 25 points.
With more points on the line, Euro NCAP expects more from these systems.
This means indirect monitoring alone (like steering-input sensors) won’t meet the new standard. Instead, vehicles must use direct driver monitoring, including real-time eye and head tracking, to determine whether the driver is actually engaged.
Key Requirements in the 2026 Protocol:
Drowsiness detection: Must be detected at highway speeds (50 km/h or higher), with severity assessed based on recognized sleepiness scales.
Distraction monitoring: Not just “eyes off road” but also frequent short glances away (visual attention time sharing).
Phone use detection: The system should recognize when a driver is looking at, holding, or interacting with a phone, not just detect general distraction.
Impairment detection: A major addition – DMS should be able to detect signs of impairment from alcohol or drugs.
Unresponsive driver detection: If a driver stops reacting, the system must escalate warnings and, if necessary, take action, such as increasing safety assist sensitivity or activating an emergency function to bring the car to a safe stop.
Better than any of that would be a total ban on touchscreen control for any core feature of the vehicle that may need to be used when in motion. Heating, aircon, hazard lights etc plus the radio volume should be required to be physical controls designed to be used without looking by law, and touchscreens should be required to be disabled by law when in motion unless a passenger is detected in the front seat who could be doing it. Faffing with a touchscreen is every bit as bad as a phone.
Yup, buttons for the win! Having to use a touch screen for key functions, or expecting people to press a button to voice control something (which, if it doesn't hear correctly, or does the wrong thing, causes more hassle) should not be a thing.
Remember, car makers found that a cheap TFT display was something that made a car look premium - so they quickly removed switches and buttons (which can be expensive if they vary from model to model depending on spec) and just made screens ever bigger. Software is cheap. Software can be changed at any time. Features can be added or removed (perhaps with a subscription). They added big screens for their benefit, not ours.
Obviously a big screen is great for things like navigation, or even playing video if you're parked up, and it's also useful to allow control of car settings when you're not moving. But let's have real buttons too!
I don't know if any insurers have such clauses yet, or if they will, but it's something to keep an eye on. I'm sure they won't want to shout about it, but if they can reduce their liability they certainly will try.
Equally, there could be some milestone cases of certain 'invasive' mandated safety measure being identified as contributeary to incidents. Manufacturers might find certain models being escalated up the insurance price bands, severely depressing their sales
Equally, there could be some milestone cases of certain 'invasive' mandated safety measure being identified as contributeary to incidents. Manufacturers might find certain models being escalated up the insurance price bands, severely depressing their sales
Yes, there have certainly been some cars that have (at least early on) had software issues with things like lane keep assist, that can actively steer a vehicle into danger without quick intervention.
(A bit like Tesla Autopilot or FSD (supervised) deciding do something stupid and you having to step in rapidly to avoid disaster - and there are many court cases pending Stateside).
Yes, there have certainly been some cars that have (at least early on) had software issues with things like lane keep assist, that can actively steer a vehicle into danger without quick intervention.
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