Merseyrail 777 introduction

[jamesst]

Yes but they now occupy platform 1 for a while whilst the train is cleared out and often delay the hunts cross train albeit not always.

As was done with the Ormskirks ore timetable change, the issue being 8mins is not nearly enough time to empty an 8car, shunt out and shunt back in.

 

[Pacef8]

This all begs the question should the rebuild of central station of taken place prior to the inadequate 777 trains being introduced . One for Mr Rotherham dream weaving maybe.

 

[Tremzinho]

Cressington is not the only station which requires SDO, but is unique in that it requires an entire unit to be locked out rather than just one door.

For those unfamiliar with the station: Cressington sits in a cutting with road bridges at both ends of the platforms. When the station was reopened and upgraded for Merseyrail in 1978, the platforms were extended into the cutting under the road bridge at the Liverpool end. The platform extensions are very narrow and required special dispensation for construction, even by the more relaxed standards of the 1970s. For as long as 507s and 508s ruled the roost, grandfather rights applied. The arrival of the 777s required an alternative solution. The "normal" width platform can only accommodate a 4-car unit.

But yes, it is ridiculous that we are still waiting on a solution. It is nearly six years since the first 777 was delivered!

Thanks for the info. I wonder if Merseytravel and Mayor Rotheram were unaware they were going to have this issue when the 777s were ordered. It would explain the embarrassing total lack of response during the recent media criticism over Cressington.

Measuring on Google Earth, the platform looks to be around 75 metres. So it should be possible to open doors on 5 carriages, rather than leaving an entire unit locked out. It would also be possible to stop with just 2 doors on the front unit and 2 on the rear locked out. That might be a bit more challenging, but would probably be the best solution.

 

[WirralLine]

Thanks for the info. I wonder if Merseytravel and Mayor Rotheram were unaware they were going to have this issue when the 777s were ordered. It would explain the embarrassing total lack of response during the recent media criticism over Cressington.

Measuring on Google Earth, the platform looks to be around 75 metres. So it should be possible to open doors on 5 carriages, rather than leaving an entire unit locked out. It would also be possible to stop with just 2 doors on the front unit and 2 on the rear locked out. That might be a bit more challenging, but would probably be the best solution.

I believe the issue with Cressington is the old bridge which makes the platforms extremely narrow and unsuitable for passenger use. The 50X stock had grandfather rights which allowed them to use the full platform whereas 777s do not. Same as 50X at Green Lane where the front and rear set of doors on a 6 car opened inside the tunnel with a narrow ledge type platform and "do not alight" signage on the walls. This isnt allowed on the 777 stock either.

 

[bahnause]

Thanks for the info. I wonder if Merseytravel and Mayor Rotheram were unaware they were going to have this issue when the 777s were ordered. It would explain the embarrassing total lack of response during the recent media criticism over Cressington.

He wasn't even Mayor when they were ordered.

 

[Tremzinho]

He wasn't even Mayor when they were ordered.

You’re right, I momentarily forgot, as he loves to imply that he bought them.

I’ll rephrase, was Merseytravel and the then chair Liam Robinson (who now leads Liverpool City Council) unaware when they ordered these trains? When did Rotheram find out?

 

[urbophile]

Cressington is not the only station which requires SDO, but is unique in that it requires an entire unit to be locked out rather than just one door.

This would cause even more problems if so, since passengers would have to move into the front (or rear) portion and could only do this by walking on the platform at another station. But I doubt if that is true: I would have thought the platforms are long enough for all doors of one unit plus one of the other to be openable.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This would cause even more problems if so, since passengers would have to move into the front (or rear) portion and could only do this by walking on the platform at another station. But I doubt if that is true: I would have thought the platforms are long enough for all doors of one unit plus one of the other to be openable.

There is precedent for this being allowed - in the case of double 3 car 195s calling at Burneside and Staveley one unit is completely off the platform.

 

[jamesst]

This would cause even more problems if so, since passengers would have to move into the front (or rear) portion and could only do this by walking on the platform at another station. But I doubt if that is true: I would have thought the platforms are long enough for all doors of one unit plus one of the other to be openable.

It is very true.
Only one unit will be platformmed at Cressington. As already explained the remainder of the platform there is too small by modern standards. In the past they got away with it as the 50x stock had grandfather rights, the 777s dont.
St Michael's up, Aigburth down, Bidston up snd down will see the very back set of doors unable to open, Green Lane the front and rear most set of doors , Hamilton Square platform 1 and 2 the rear most set of doors

 

[Phillipimo]

St Michael's up, Aigburth down, Bidston up snd down will see the very back set of doors unable to open, Green Lane the front and rear most set of doors , Hamilton Square platform 1 and 2 the rear most set of doors

Since 8 car trains already stop at St Michael's and Aigburth so do you know if this part of SDO functional or do all doors fit on the platform?

 

[MR-507508]

Since 8 car trains already stop at St Michael's and Aigburth so do you know if this part of SDO functional or do all doors fit on the platform?

The rear most set of doors are manually locked out of use by the train manager.

 

[Phillipimo]

The rear most set of doors are manually locked out of use by the train manager.

Thank you I didn't know that.

 

[urbophile]

There is precedent for this being allowed - in the case of double 3 car 195s calling at Burneside and Staveley one unit is completely off the platform.

Precedent maybe. But how would it work in practice when passengers are not able to walk from one unit to the next?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Precedent maybe. But how would it work in practice when passengers are not able to walk from one unit to the next?

Move to the other unit before the short platform, or get off 1 station too far and go back having learnt your mistake.

 

[Skie]

Precedent maybe. But how would it work in practice when passengers are not able to walk from one unit to the next?

Platform PIS will show it and onboard announcements will tell people they need to be in the correct carriage to disembark.

If they ever get around to updating the walls at Central they might even indicate where to stand to guarantee certain stations.

 

[Kite159]

There is precedent for this being allowed - in the case of double 3 car 195s calling at Burneside and Staveley one unit is completely off the platform.

And also for 10 coach IET sets calling at stations with short platforms where the entire rear unit is off the platform, Ivybridge for one.

(And even for local door only release on some of the GWR routes served by 143s & 150/1s and lately Turbos, no gangways there)

 

[baldyman26]

Platform PIS will show it and onboard announcements will tell people they need to be in the correct carriage to disembark.

If they ever get around to updating the walls at Central they might even indicate where to stand to guarantee certain stations.

Can't trust the PIS to tell us the correct destination or station at the moment

 

[Prime586]

You’re right, I momentarily forgot, as he loves to imply that he bought them.

I’ll rephrase, was Merseytravel and the then chair Liam Robinson (who now leads Liverpool City Council) unaware when they ordered these trains? When did Rotheram find out?

I suspect it was the responsibility of Merseytravel's 777 Design and Programme Manager (and former poster on this forum, who went MIA from here and any media briefings once their issues became apparent).

 

[urbophile]

Move to the other unit before the short platform, or get off 1 station too far and go back having learnt your mistake.

Not very customer friendly though.

 

[185143]

Not very customer friendly though.

Good job it's a metro service with zonal tickets and a train every 15 minutes then.

Not like some of the GWR examples mentioned above.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not very customer friendly though.

More customer friendly than cramming people in. It's a local station for local people, as it were. Any given passenger will only be caught out at most once, and it'll only cost them about 15 minutes at most.

 

[Bevan Price]

Mostly 8 coach formations on special Boxing Day services South Parkway/ Southport & Liverpool Central / Ormskirk. Announcement to "change at Southport for (non-existent) services to Stalybridge & Manchester Oxford Road"

 

[MR-507508]

I was on an 8 car 777, Southport bound, on boxing day which had been held just outside Liverpool Central adjacent to the reversing siding. I noticed a warning sign towards the buffer of the reversing siding which read 'NO FLY TIPPING, CCTV in Operation'.
I did not expect to see such a sign in this location. I surmise fly tipping must have been an issue here? Perhaps from the opening which is above this end of the reversing siding?

 

[Pacef8]

Somewhere in this thread it was discussed how the new trains would fare better in the sleety hail snow.
Well they are off from hooton right now.

 

[karlbbb]

Somewhere in this thread it was discussed how the new trains would fare better in the sleety hail snow.
Well they are off from hooton right now.

There's only so much you can do about physics. The 777s probably have better wheelslip/wheelslide protection, and they have better protections from third-rail welding, but ice is ice...

 

[jamesst]

Somewhere in this thread it was discussed how the new trains would fare better in the sleety hail snow.
Well they are off from hooton right now.

They protect themselves better, that isn't necessarily a good thing for the service.

The 50xs would generally blow MAs on iced live rail which cost a hell of a lot to repair, the 777s basically shut systems down to avoid this.

 

[M60lad]

Apparently their also off from Hunts Cross-Liverpool South Parkway with tickets valid on Northern services between South Parkway and Hunts Cross

 

[WirralLine]

I witnessed 777009 pull into Bromborough Rake this evening with no fans or anything, silent, it tried to take power flash bang and lots of alarms it cut out and died.

 

[M28361M]

The maps on OpenTrainTimes seem to show trains moving towards Chester, Ellesmere Port and Hunts Cross again. Fingers crossed tomorrow's morning peak runs smoothly.

 

[Prime586]

In Merseytravel's post-mortem report on the 777 issues last winter, the proposed solution to the shutdowns due to third rail icing was to run trains during the night to keep the third rail clear. I wondered on reading that who they were going to get to drive them, which is presumably the reason why the issues have returned this weekend.

Given the sleet and hail have really hit tonight (the M57 between Switch Island and Huyton was terrible earlier this evening - there was an overturned car on the north-bound sliproad at Prescot as well), I expect there's going to be issues in the morning too.