Railway Improvements That Have Led to Major Cuts In Bus Services

[DunsBus]

The Metro opened prior to bus deregulation by 5 or 6 years. The Tyne and Wear Passenger Transport Executive who oversaw bus services in their area, determined that buses should terminate at Gateshead. There was a great deal of complaint from passengers. The Government was looking at bus licensing reform. Coaches were deregulated in 1980. A local operator, Low Fell Coaches applied to the Traffic Commissioner to operate a route across the Tyne from Low Fell to Newcastle city centre with a terminus at St Thomas Street. This was granted though think it only ran hourly. This undermined the PTE policy and eventually led to cross Tyne bus routes being restored. I cannot recall whether this was before or after deregulation in October 1986.

It was before deregulation, in 1985.

An early effect of the Metro opening was the PTE withdrawing its services to Gateshead.

 

[Geeves]

The reopening of the Todmorden curve meaning direct trains from Accrington and Burnley to Manchester finished the locals from Burnley to Rochdale and the X41 from Accrington to central Manchester is currently hanging on by a thread having been under threat for a long time! Even the 590 from Rochdale to Halifax is a shadow of it's self with the improvements in train services over the Calder Valley over the years.

 

[ChrisC]

Light rail - Nottingham trams had a big impact on local buses in places like Bulwell and Beeston.

When the Nottingham tram opened TrentBarton completely withdrew from the route via Bulwell, Basford and Hyson Green into Nottingham. This resulted in that whole route into Nottingham losing its regular buses from Hucknall, Kirkby in Ashfield, Sutton in Ashfield and Mansfield. There isn‘t even a bus from Hucknall to Bulwell now. TrentBarton now only run into Nottingham via Hucknall Road and the City Hospital.

 

[Hophead]

It's surely just a matter of time before the Northumberland Line has an effect on buses into Newcastle from places such as Ashington.

 

[scrapy]

In the early 90s the 747 express bus between Manchester and its' airport ended when the rail link opened.

 

[daodao]

Buses along Princess Road from Manchester to Wythenshawe were reduced following the opening of the Metrolink airport route, in particular routes 108 and 109 via Northern Moor were withdrawn completely. Route 109 was a long-standing service that originated as service 44 to Baguley Sanatorium, in part replacing former first generation tramway route 44 from Piccadilly to Southern Cemetery (from where Wythenshawe buses used to start) in the late 1940s.

In South Wales, there are no longer direct buses Mon-Sat from Cardiff to Aberdare (former National Welsh and later Shamrock routes X5/X6) consequent on reopening of the Cynon Valley rail line and its later increase in service frequency to half hourly. There are no longer any direct buses from Ebbw Vale to either Cardiff or Newport via Risca, at least in part due to the introduction of passenger rail services on the reopened Ebbw Vale line.

 

[moogal]

When the Elizabeth Line opened, TfL shortened the bus that now runs between City Thameslink and Ilford. It used to run further into Central London (ie Tott Ct Rd, Oxford Circus) but no longer does, TfL assuming that the Lizzy will take the bulk of patronage, since they have many stops in common on the entire journey. This is the 25 which essentially (used to) mirror the Liz line

I think there is a similar route that ran to Whitehall / Horse Guards from Plumstead via Woolwich. This is actually one of the busiest routes in London, and was curtailed to just Lambeth North. I think this was less to do with the Elizabeth Line, and more reducing congestion in Central London (but one should think if there is to be a route congesting Central London, surely it should be one of the more patronised?). This is the 53, but they did open the 453 as a sister route which runs further in Central London.

Both of the night versions of these buses still go/beyond their original destinations in Central London.

What’s interesting is both of these routes are still respectively some of the busiest operated in London. The stop at Woolwich on the 53 is actually one of the busiest bus stops in Europe. And the 25 is also extremely busy.

Most of this wasn't related to the Elizabeth Line - in fact it happened several years before that opened. The justification given at the time was that the introduction of the Hopper fare meant they could reduce the number of half-empty buses clogging up Central London where multiple routes converged, as passengers could continue their journey via other routes covering the same corridor.

 

[D6130]

You can add Cononley, which lost most of its 666 (sic! - now 66) services as the main flow to Skipton was heavily undercut by the train. 2bph is now 5bpd (though Kildwick has gained as a result!). The route was awkward anyway with a steep hill and narrow roads as well as the level crossing.

You can add to that the near impossibility of maintaining any semblance of punctuality on the 666/667 route with the lengthy barrier down time at Cononley crossing after the introduction of the frequent electric services.

 

[Ianigsy]

The C1-C5 series of buses between Birkenhead and Chester have been steadily run down since through electric trains from Liverpool started running. The C1 used to be Chester-Birkenhead avoiding Ellesmere Port, C2-C4 took various routes through the Ellesmere Port area and C5 was a post-deregulation Liverpool-Chester direct service.

The current offering is four irregularly spaced buses an hour, all serving the zoo, Cheshire Oaks and Ellesmere Port town centre so it takes about 90 minutes from Chester to Birkenhead (and it’s a slightly shorter route as it doesn’t go down to Woodside).

 

[Requeststop]

In West Cornwall, First Bus have announced that They are withdrawing 14 services here as of February. It's thought that GO will take over the majority of the routes. The services withdrawn are not just the important village services which are vital for so many down here but the University routes from Falmouth to Truro, Penzance, Camborne and Redruth but the services following the train routes from St Ives/Penzance to Hayle, Camborne, Redruth and Truro, plus one of the Truro-Newquay routes.

These rail routes have improved over the last few years, especially with the increased frequency on the St Ives Branch, Falmouth Branch and along the Cornish Mainline. What will happen to the buses when the Cornish Metro starts is very open to question. Especially as these days passengers between Falmouth and Newquay also have to change buses these days as the through route (ex U1/U1A) was chopped.

The main problem on the bus routes is just how long it takes to travel from place to place. Penzance-Truro (T1) Penzance-St Ives (T2) for instance takes just under 2 hours. Falmouth-Truro (U1) takes nearly 50 minutes. Truro-Newquay (87) takes 97 minutes.

There are no limited stop routes for buses here. I can use my Senior Bus pass for free travel, but dammit, I'd rather pay and use my senior rail card with 30% off the ticket price to get about and then use the buses from the stations to get to any intermediate places I want to visit.
Here will will see if the routes withdrawn will be picked up in February.

 

[321362]

Though not immediate, the introduction of Southeastern's highspeed service on HS1 effectively heralded the end of commuter coaches running from North Kent into London.

There's still those random coaches to Ryarsh in peak times. No idea if they actually run though.

In a similar vein, the Wednesday and Saturdays only Kingston-Sutton-Brighton-Eastbourne coach was withdrawn around the time that Thameslink improved services from London to the South Coast. That might have also been COVID-related though.

 

[telstarbox]

Down to 1 journey per day. It serves a few housing estates which are further from stations, Ryarsh is where the Brookline depot is.

734 - Ryarsh - Kings Hill - Larkfield - London

Brookline

bustimes.org

 

[MP33]

When the DLR was extended there. The London City Airport shuttle bus, which ran to Liverpool Street via Canary Wharf, was ended. When I used to catch the unreliable 172 from Liverpool Street. You knew that you were in trouble, when the Airport bus, which was less frequent. Turned up.

 

[Taunton]

There's still those random coaches to Ryarsh in peak times. No idea if they actually run though.

Curiously I see this one on many mornings, coming into Canary Wharf at about 0750. Doesn't seem very full. But there did indeed used to be far more, which had specific bus stops erected for them, which are still there but unused. In evenings there used to be a large queue for them sheltering under the Cannon Street rail bridge where it passes over Lower Thames Street in The City.

 

[duffield]

Light rail - Nottingham trams had a big impact on local buses in places like Bulwell and Beeston.

Although Bulwell still has masses of buses into the city including the direct high frequency 68/69 which takes about the same time as the tram. Given the tram is 20% more expensive (for a single) it's hard to see how it competes for this journey.

Edit: But as another post pointed out, the tram has affected other journeys considerably such as to Hucknall.

 

[Julia]

Actually I can see the X5 still running but as a price competitor to E-W. If Stagecoach can fiddle the route bit and make it a bit more "X" they might hold passengers.

It's not well advertised, but (at least last time I asked!) there is through ticketing on to the 905 at Bedford, which makes it a pretty cheap way from points between Bedford and St Neots to west of MK. I can't see the time penalty being worth it to stick with the X5 on longer journeys when EWR opens, and it'll probably disintegrate into multiple local sections - which may well help operationally as it's a very long out-and-back from Bedford garage.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The C1-C5 series of buses between Birkenhead and Chester have been steadily run down since through electric trains from Liverpool started running. The C1 used to be Chester-Birkenhead avoiding Ellesmere Port, C2-C4 took various routes through the Ellesmere Port area and C5 was a post-deregulation Liverpool-Chester direct service.

The current offering is four irregularly spaced buses an hour, all serving the zoo, Cheshire Oaks and Ellesmere Port town centre so it takes about 90 minutes from Chester to Birkenhead (and it’s a slightly shorter route as it doesn’t go down to Woodside).

And the opening of Overpool station has led to the withdrawal of all nearby bus services after 1930. Overpool is currently served by the (anything but express) X1 Liverpool - Chester and the local 6/6A service. Local roads are now plagued with cyclists without lights at night, many clad in black.

In the olden days the C2 and C3 all went via Overpool until late in the evening.

The Ellesmere Port - Hooton - Neston service (now 23, was 272 and before that F59) is now down to half a dozen buses a day with none at weekends.

On the other side of the coin, the decline of services on the Ellesmere Port - Helsby line has led to more buses on the route, albeit not in the evenings, boosted by the opening of Cheshire Oaks.

 

[DM352]

Think around the time the cross city was electrified to Lichfield, the 901 timesaver to Birmingham was first diverted via Sutton Coldfield from the A38 off peak and then mostly withdrawn by West Midlands Teavel. Could have been a coincidence as it was outside Centro but was not a bad service in its time.

 

[3141]

If the pre-Second World War plan to electrify the LNER line between Finsbury Park and Alexandra Palace had been completed, becoming part of the Northern Line, it would surely have led to frequency reductions on the then Route 212, which today as the W7 still runs every four or five minutes for much of the day.

 

[Whisky Papa]

The reopening of the Todmorden curve meaning direct trains from Accrington and Burnley to Manchester finished the locals from Burnley to Rochdale and the X41 from Accrington to central Manchester is currently hanging on by a thread having been under threat for a long time! Even the 590 from Rochdale to Halifax is a shadow of it's self with the improvements in train services over the Calder Valley over the years.

By "the locals from Burnley to Rochdale" do you mean the former First 589? I'm not 100% convinced the Tod curve had much to do with its withdrawal as it had very few through passengers, except perhaps for football at Burnley. The 590, which is still hourly Rochdale to Halifax to be pedantic, but there has recently been a reduction in the Todmorden - Halifax daytime combined frequency. Personally I think changes in shopping habits and local employment patterns, plus increasing unreliability due to traffic congestion and long-term roadworks in Burnley and Halifax have had more of an impact on user numbers.

There is probably also an indirect link to the improved Calder Valley rail services, in that the Calder Valley towns have become much more attractive as dormitories for Leeds and (particularly) Manchester. Combined with the loss of many local manufacturing and administrative jobs, often in scattered small pockets along the valley, the requirement for bus travel to work must have dramatically reduced in the 20+ years since I was driving those routes.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Several of Londons Red Arrow services were intended as stopgaps until new Tube lines were built. The 500 eventually dissappeared several years after the opening of the Victoria Line between Victoria and Oxford Circus.
The 501 (and its replacement the 521, which took a different route in the City to avoid some tight curves not negotiable by Bendies) were intended to be replaced by the extension of the Aldwych branch to Waterloo and the Fleet Line along Fleet Street to the City. Neither project happened, but the 521 was nevertheless withdrawn in 2023.

 

[PGAT]

In London Route 472 got cut from a bus every 6 minutes to 8 minutes in anticipation for the Elizabeth Line. Although next month it will be turned into a Superloop route and have the frequency restored

 

[Edsmith]

Light rail, but the 54 bus in London stopped going to Croydon after the London Tramlink was built. Maybe not a major cut though.

Also the 353 no longer went to Croydon and the previously intensive service between Croydon and New Addington was greatly reduced when Tramlink opened.

 

[Simon75]

Didn't the Night Tube in London, result in some night buses getting reduced ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also the 353 no longer went to Croydon and the previously intensive service between Croydon and New Addington was greatly reduced when Tramlink opened.

Unlike the other new generation trams Croydon was very much designed in part to replace bus routes, hence why it is in the bus fare system and not the rather higher rail/Tube one.

 

[py_megapixel]

In London Route 472 got cut from a bus every 6 minutes to 8 minutes in anticipation for the Elizabeth Line.

I'm not sure that counts as a "major cut"! I'd bet most passengers barely noticed.

 

[PGAT]

I'm not sure that counts as a "major cut"! I'd bet most passengers barely noticed.

It’s a 25% cut in capacity which isn’t insignificant

 

[Busoccultation]

Light rail - Nottingham trams had a big impact on local buses in places like Bulwell and Beeston.

Clifton as well, plenty of massive reductions on bus services there since the NET extension to Clifton South, Navy 48 went from every 7 mins service during the peak hours using long wheelbase Omnidekkas prior to the trams to only every 20 mins using double deckers before it went up to every 15 mins earlier this year using single decker Yutong E12 buses.

In summary, before the trams a 7 min service on 90 odd seats Omnidekka to now only a 15 min service using single deck buses, despite Nottingham being one of the best UK cities for buses.

 

[johntea]

One area where the bus services still shine is Boxing Day, although they then lose out again to the railway on New Years Day!

 

[Llandudno]

One area where the bus services still shine is Boxing Day, although they then lose out again to the railway on New Years Day!

Depends, most areas of England and Wales have no bus services on Boxing Day…!