Merseyrail 777 introduction

[Lloyds siding]

I notice the fabric of the seating isn't wearing well: with stitching coming apart and small tears developing.

 

[Skie]

If only there was a technology which would allow passengers to book tickets online and have them available to display on a device like a phone to cut down queues at ticket offices...

To be fair they do have the metro card now which enables “tap n go”

Easy enough to get a card and set it up.

 

[Kite159]

To be fair they do have the metro card now which enables “tap n go”

Easy enough to get a card and set it up.

For people who use the railway regularly, but for someone who might only use the trains once every couple of months, they wouldn't want to carry around a smartcard.

Probably will take longer than the ability to buy an e-ticket from Bidston to Liverpool on a phone.

 

[tumbledown]

Passengers who do not carry around gadgets with them are not inferior passengers.

 

[MR-507508]

There was also a diagram missing on the New Brighton line around lunchtime/early afternoon.

The effects on the wider network of the new Everton stadium still have to work their way through the system, not least in terms of ticket office capacity - it’s unusual to see a queue at Birkenhead North, but at about 12.30 there were two or three groups of Evertonians and a family of 5 going to the Christmas markets. Not all of them got on the next train.

It should help once the Chester line reverts back to it's usual timetable in January, releasing a unit to be used.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Days like today show why the Merseyrail network needs more trains. 47/53 isn’t a bad number of trains out in service, but at least another 7-8 units need to be ordered.

777004 is desperately needed back in service.

However many TOCs in the country have suffered overcrowding today, not surprising with it being December and Christmas rapidly approaching.

 

[WirralLine]

Days like today show why the Merseyrail network needs more trains. 47/53 isn’t a bad number of trains out in service, but at least another 7-8 units need to be ordered.

I agree.

This may be drifting off topic here, so feel free to move/delete as appropriate. As has been mentioned previously, there is the option to order more units, however it has long been the goal to expand the Merseyrail network through the use of more IPEMU Battery 777/1s.

Last I heard it was pretty much guaranteed this will be the case for the Bidston-Wrexham line (in some form, either part way or full) within the not too distant future. The question is, is there suitable capacity at Kirkdale to maintain a theoretical order of much needed extra 777/0s, plus further orders of 777/1s for the various expansions?

I suppose in theory Birkenhead could be better utilised, but it already homes the TfW 230s and last I heard Stadler were wanting to fit a wheel lathe there. (If thats still the case.)

The problem we have now is with Evertons new stadium increasing demand for the already busy Northern Line on match days, aswell as the necessary 8 cars on certain Southport diagrams, there arnt enough 777s to go around to provide enough 8 car capacity everywhere its needed. There are certain Chester services that could do with their former 6 car peak capacity back too.

Does the Ormskirk line have any regular 8 car services now except for match days? I know it used to get 6 cars with the 50X during peak at one point.

And finally, is there scope for 8 car 777/1s on Headbolt Lane services? Is this a thing or been tested or not on the cards? I struggle to keep up!

 

[greeny11]

A quick check of RTT over the past few weeks shows no 8-cars on Ormskirks Monday-Friday, and 3 or 4 8-cars on the Southport line, this means the following:

Southport - 12 units (4 8-cars, and 4 4-cars)
Ormskirk - 8 units
Headbolt Lane - 4 units
Chester - 7 units
West Kirby - 5 units
Ellesmere Port - 3 units
New Brighton - 4 units

Total - 43 units

This goes up to 46 or 47 units on match days - the split of 8-cars was 6/2 in favour of Ormskirk yesterday, 4/3 in favour of Southport last weekend. There are 3 long-term absentees (004 which seems to be a donor to others, and 007/047 which have both been out of service for several weeks), so there's a fleet of 50 units currently. That doesn't leave a huge amount of room to expand the services any more.

 

[Djgr]

For people who use the railway regularly, but for someone who might only use the trains once every couple of months, they wouldn't want to carry around a smartcard.

Presumably if you are an Everton supporter travelling from Birkenhead North for the games then you will be using the trains far more frequently than every couple of months?

 

[Pacef8]

If your looking for space birkenhead central has a whole shed lying empty and derelict that would take 4 units.

 

[Northerngirl]

Personally, I think they should get 15 or 20 120m units to cover the busiest Ormskirk & Chester services, and that would free up enough of the existing fleet to cover the extended lines

 

[danbarjon]

777144 had a bit of a wobble at Fazakerley today, full reset was done and ended up arriving into Headbolt 21 minutes late. Must say after a long day sitting on a 777 for a short time in the dark was actually quite nice although maybe not something I’d regularly want to do…

 

[nilvaj395]

Personally, I think they should get 15 or 20 120m units to cover the busiest Ormskirk & Chester services, and that would free up enough of the existing fleet to cover the extended lines

Also, to add to this, in my opinion, choosing to go for shorter units that double up over longer fixed units comes with a bunch of problems. I always think the best way you could've spec'd things is with a Thameslink Cl 700 approach. Maybe a 4/5 car fixed and a 7/8 car (fixed). So many crowding issues that could've been better dispersed if there was walk-through between units.

 

[Pacef8]

The shorter axle lengths where to solve the problem of wheel rub on the loop . They dont rub as much but often still do.

 

[karlbbb]

A few saw this issue straight away, but I wasn't convinced it'd be an issue... I've come to dislike the end carriages being single-door. It's very noticeable at busier stations that the two inner carriages have finished unloading and loading while people are still piling into the single door at either end. A poor decision to try and reduce the scale of platform-lengthening works.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few saw this issue straight away, but I wasn't convinced it'd be an issue... I've come to dislike the end carriages being single-door. It's very noticeable at busier stations that the two inner carriages have finished unloading and loading while people are still piling into the single door at either end. A poor decision to try and reduce the scale of platform-lengthening works.

I agree, this is a particular issue on the narrow platforms at Liverpool Central where two doors would fit.

 

[nilvaj395]

A few saw this issue straight away, but I wasn't convinced it'd be an issue... I've come to dislike the end carriages being single-door. It's very noticeable at busier stations that the two inner carriages have finished unloading and loading while people are still piling into the single door at either end. A poor decision to try and reduce the scale of platform-lengthening works.

You also then get people shuffling from the single door down the platform to the carriages with double doors, but the effect you mentioned is painfully obvious on special event days too, combined with how the doors and door area aren't nesscarily as wide they could be for clearing people up from the platform and into the train.

 

[Skie]

I agree, this is a particular issue on the narrow platforms at Liverpool Central where two doors would fit.

The platform ends have more space at Central so people do hang around them, especially the Southport end of P2 which has seating. But 4 cars don't stop that far up so you get a crowd at the first door which blocks people getting to any other doors. Used to be a problem with the 507/508's too.

The only fixes are to move the stop markers (but that just moves the problem to the other end of the train), make the doors wider (in 2055?) or rebuild the station so people can congregate along the length of the train and not beyond the stop boards. A lot of Merseyrail stations have similar layout problems, with their entrances/exits being right at the end of the platform and platform furniture discouraging people from using more of the length. Entrances and waiting rooms should be more central with stop boards positioned so the centre of a 4 car is at the waiting room, encouaging a better spread.

I'd prefer more doors, but then you'd have less seats. I'd prefer they just ran longer trains more often.

 

[Polarbear]

I’ve noticed the 777’s are continuing to have issues with both internal & external destination displays.

A few days back, had one service on the loop, allegedly going to Bootle New Strand, (it was a West Kirby service). Another on the same day recited the next station, always being one behind, which confused a few people!

 

[azzarazza]

BBC running an article about trains not stopping at Cressington and unhappy locals. Will we see any progress on this?

A rail user said he was "astonished" there would be no trains stopping at his local station to take him into Liverpool city centre on the "busiest Saturday of the year" this weekend.

John Mullany, who lives in south Liverpool, said it would be the second Saturday this month that Cressington station would be "closed", with passengers instead offered a replacement bus service.

He said he was "shocked" when he arrived at the suburban station to find no trains were stopping there on 6 December. There were no signs, and it was only by checking online he discovered no trains were stopping due to an event at Aintree racecourse, and an Everton game at Hill Dickinson.
An announcement on Merseyrail's website explains no trains will be running from Cressington station to allow the company to run more eight-car trains. Posters advising passengers of the change are displayed inside the station.

Greg Suligowski, head of corporate affairs and communications for Merseyrail, said altering timetables was a "difficult decision".
Link to BBC article

Also, does anyone know why the PIS announcements keep being changed? Station announcements are the same but announcements about penalty fares/ticket checks/anti-social behavior seem to change monthly. Seems like a bit of a pointless change unless they're hoping by altering them you notice them more?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2025 ==

I’ve noticed the 777’s are continuing to have issues with both internal & external destination displays.

A few days back, had one service on the loop, allegedly going to Bootle New Strand, (it was a West Kirby service). Another on the same day recited the next station, always being one behind, which confused a few people!

I've seen a few coming in to ormskirk with Chester on the front. Must be very lost!

 

[gka472l]

Travelling back from Chester on 777025 this evening.....the lights around the doors were yellow on one of the doors on one of the coaches (the ones which are either white, green or red).....never seen that before! A glitch, or some other meaning??

 

[Polarbear]

Another thing I’ve noticed, sometimes when the doors are opening, the “door close” chime will kick in for a few seconds.

When this happens, the door cycle stops, but again, just for a few seconds. Can be somewhat unnerving when trying to exit the train when the doors stop mid-cycle.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

Another thing I’ve noticed, sometimes when the doors are opening, the “door close” chime will kick in for a few seconds.

When this happens, the door cycle stops, but again, just for a few seconds. Can be somewhat unnerving when trying to exit the train when the doors stop mid-cycle.

Yes, has happened to me several times. I thought it was an over-sensitive door trap detector which doesn't know which way the doors are going, or maybe something to do with weight on the floor and the mechanism underneath.

 

[jamesst]

Yes, has happened to me several times. I thought it was an over-sensitive door trap detector which doesn't know which way the doors are going, or maybe something to do with weight on the floor and the mechanism underneath.

If i remember correctly irs to do with the sliding step from when it first moves out to when it reaches the platform edge

 

[nilvaj395]

Travelling back from Chester on 777025 this evening.....the lights around the doors were yellow on one of the doors on one of the coaches (the ones which are either white, green or red).....never seen that before! A glitch, or some other meaning??

Is it possible that some parts of the RGB LED inside are most likely damaged? Especially if they were trying to be yellow at a time when they should be red/green.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2025 ==

Another thing I’ve noticed, sometimes when the doors are opening, the “door close” chime will kick in for a few seconds.

When this happens, the door cycle stops, but again, just for a few seconds. Can be somewhat unnerving when trying to exit the train when the doors stop mid-cycle.

No doubt it will cause a hit on throughput and loading/unloading too. They should really rectify that, as those sorts of trivial issues with something as small as a door are silly.

 

[Liverpool 507]

777015 & 777026 failed at Ormskirk line earlier around 16:45, causing havoc for the best part of over 2 hours. It feels like reliability of these trains has taken three steps back. If they were cars, you’d ask for a refund.

As for Merseyrail’s Head of Communications statement on the reasons for closing Cressington, I find quite poor which hints no end insight for this ‘temporary’ timetable. If they don’t have enough drivers, recruit more. As for Stadler, they need to get a grip of these units and supply of parts to get 004 back in service. No recent activity for 007 or 047 which are slowly becoming long term stopped units.

 

[nilvaj395]

777015 & 777026 failed at Ormskirk line earlier around 16:45, causing havoc for the best part of over 2 hours. It feels like reliability of these trains has taken three steps back. If they were cars, you’d ask for a refund.

As for Merseyrail’s Head of Communications statement on the reasons for closing Cressington, I find quite poor which hints no end insight for this ‘temporary’ timetable. If they don’t have enough drivers, recruit more. As for Stadler, they need to get a grip of these units and supply of parts to get 004 back in service. No recent activity for 007 or 047 which are slowly becoming long term stopped units.

I guess they couldn't drag it out due to begin a double unit/trains bunched up, must've been horrible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2025 ==

It's also saddening that such new trains have an entire unit out of service just to be a parts donor.

 

[karlbbb]

777015 & 777026 failed at Ormskirk line earlier around 16:45, causing havoc for the best part of over 2 hours. It feels like reliability of these trains has taken three steps back. If they were cars, you’d ask for a refund.

As for Merseyrail’s Head of Communications statement on the reasons for closing Cressington, I find quite poor which hints no end insight for this ‘temporary’ timetable. If they don’t have enough drivers, recruit more. As for Stadler, they need to get a grip of these units and supply of parts to get 004 back in service. No recent activity for 007 or 047 which are slowly becoming long term stopped units.

Maybe Merseyrail need to review their archaic stance of only employing drivers who have served time as guards first. I believe they're the only TOC to still do this?

 

[MR-507508]

777015 & 777026 failed at Ormskirk line earlier around 16:45, causing havoc for the best part of over 2 hours. It feels like reliability of these trains has taken three steps back. If they were cars, you’d ask for a refund.

As for Merseyrail’s Head of Communications statement on the reasons for closing Cressington, I find quite poor which hints no end insight for this ‘temporary’ timetable. If they don’t have enough drivers, recruit more. As for Stadler, they need to get a grip of these units and supply of parts to get 004 back in service. No recent activity for 007 or 047 which are slowly becoming long term stopped units.

Both units did return to service later in the evening, with 015 coupled to 049 and 026 running solo.
Also interesting to observe some coupling of units taking place at Ormskirk station yesterday morning. Brought back memories of how the 507/508s used to do this for the peak services.

 

[AndrewE]

Maybe Merseyrail need to review their archaic stance of only employing drivers who have served time as guards first. I believe they're the only TOC to still do this?

I know that was the Mersey Railway practice, but I didn't think it continued into BR days...