Great British Railways: What should be the remit?

[Dr Day]

I do not know if Transport for Wales loyalty is as strong, though that may change if all the new trains really transform the experience. I could see how it might be different in The Valleys of Cardiff, but since the Intercity services in Wales are provided by GWR and Avanti it is a bit different to Scotland where Scotrail provide the majority of services between big cities.

Another big difference is TfW provide a significant proportion of the service for many flows wholly within England.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do not know if Transport for Wales loyalty is as strong, though that may change if all the new trains really transform the experience. I could see how it might be different in The Valleys of Cardiff, but since the Intercity services in Wales are provided by GWR and Avanti it is a bit different to Scotland where Scotrail provide the majority of services between big cities.

Is it that different? Sure, Cardiff<->Newport<->Swansea is an inter-city flow (a flow connecting cities), but so is the District Line, and so are Cov-Wolves via New St stoppers - I'd probably put it more into the bracket of the latter as a regional journey that connects cities rather than a traditional long distance InterCity service, because the three cities are really very close together.

I thus wouldn't say that Wales and Scotland are vastly different in this regard - there's the domestic TOC and then there are the "international trains" to England which are primarily used to travel to London but are used for some domestic journeys. There is the difference that as someone else said TfW provides a fair bit of English domestic service (e.g. the Borders* and the Manchester Airport service being provided by a Welsh "international train" to England rather than the English TOC) and that it even manages a few fairly major stations in England (Hereford, Chester and Shrewsbury) though. Having said that there is also a Scottish "international train" to England - the Caledonian Sleeper.

This sort of thing goes on all over Europe and has done pretty much as long as railways have been mainstream there, and I'm not sure it's really any sort of issue at all. It wasn't even an issue before the EU existed, bar stops for passport and customs checks at border stations.

* That's sort of analogous to the way intercity trains from western Austria to Vienna go through Germany, though those don't usually stop and carry passengers within Germany so it's not quite the same.

 

[Smwrff]

Arriva Trains Wales ..a strong brand !!! They were universally detested...

TfW has still got a long way to go but its investment in new rolling stock has gone down very well with users and strong increases in passenger numbers over last two years suggest they are going in the right direction.

But I think they missed a trick in not calling theselves Rail Wales..

 

[Krokodil]

Arriva Trains Wales ..a strong brand !!! They were universally detested...

TfW has still got a long way to go but its investment in new rolling stock has gone down very well with users and strong increases in passenger numbers over last two years suggest they are going in the right direction.

I went on a Northern 323 this morning. I had forgotten how bad things could be (apart from the lack of an underfloor engine). TfW's 150s offer more comfort.

 

[Topological]

I went on a Northern 323 this morning. I had forgotten how bad things could be (apart from the lack of an underfloor engine). TfW's 150s offer more comfort.

That is actually true. The TfW 150s are actually ok. They just aren't suitable for Cardiff to Manchester as a 2-car.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Is it that different? Sure, Cardiff<->Newport<->Swansea is an inter-city flow (a flow connecting cities), but so is the District Line, and so are Cov-Wolves via New St stoppers - I'd probably put it more into the bracket of the latter as a regional journey that connects cities rather than a traditional long distance InterCity service, because the three cities are really very close together.

I thus wouldn't say that Wales and Scotland are vastly different in this regard - there's the domestic TOC and then there are the "international trains" to England which are primarily used to travel to London but are used for some domestic journeys. There is the difference that as someone else said TfW provides a fair bit of English domestic service (e.g. the Borders* and the Manchester Airport service being provided by a Welsh "international train" to England rather than the English TOC) and that it even manages a few fairly major stations in England (Hereford, Chester and Shrewsbury) though. Having said that there is also a Scottish "international train" to England - the Caledonian Sleeper.

This sort of thing goes on all over Europe and has done pretty much as long as railways have been mainstream there, and I'm not sure it's really any sort of issue at all. It wasn't even an issue before the EU existed, bar stops for passport and customs checks at border stations.

* That's sort of analogous to the way intercity trains from western Austria to Vienna go through Germany, though those don't usually stop and carry passengers within Germany so it's not quite the same.

You could argue in Belgium and the Netherlands intercity trains are very short and can be EMU operated

 

[Bletchleyite]

You could argue in Belgium and the Netherlands intercity trains are very short and can be EMU operated

While there are trains in Belgium and the Netherlands with an IC designation, they aren't really traditional intercity trains of the kind we're talking about. By their definition, particularly Belgium's, a Euston-Northampton semifast would be IC, while a Manchester Airport-Barrow would practically be an international train. The railway in those two countries is in effect a big metro due to their small size.