Following Matthew Pennycook's announcement yesterday about a default yes being given to dense housing developments near stations, it seems very likely to me that Winslow will grow a fair bit in the next 5-10 years. Mind you, I'm still not sure that justifies a full-time staffed building.
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Chiltern Railways selected as operator for the first stage of East West Rail - Oxford to Milton Keynes
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Sounds like an excuse to me. Even if the station is duff they could have done what they did in Northumberland and run trains without stopping there.
Snow1964
Established Member
The DfT has suddenly decided to publish the East West Rail Contract deed amendment dated March 2025
On page 12 suggests the 6 class 196/0 are only leased until 31 March 2026
When you get to schedules (at end of document), there are fair number of references to no later than 1st July 2025 which presumably was the having started by date
On page 12 suggests the 6 class 196/0 are only leased until 31 March 2026
When you get to schedules (at end of document), there are fair number of references to no later than 1st July 2025 which presumably was the having started by date
PLY2AYS
Member
This is correct. The lease ends 31st March next year, almost exactly in line with West Mids being renationalised.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Presumably this is simply because all the WMT leases will end then, and GBR will sign new ones going forward? Is this the norm each time a franchise expires?
Yes, massive other though happening on this thread on this...
absolutelymilk
Established Member
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Which thread are you referring to? Another one on EWR or on GBR leases?
This one and previous EWR threads as regards lease end dates.
New towns were intended to be self contained not commuter dormitories for London. The original policy was to not build central stations as that would encourage commuting.
renegademaster
Established Member
Expecting people to behave how the planners want to them to behave rather than mitigating how they will actually behave is a bad strategy
Snow1964
Established Member
Although that does create different problems, if there is no suitable station or services, how do people do leisure trips, multiple changes of train to visit the beach isn't going to encourage usage. Or students trying to get to/from University etc. 200 years ago people might not have traveled beyond their village, but not nowadays
Not that the line seems to be used properly, take Saturdays return of a 150 to Exeter, 3 hours from Bletchley to Didcot via Acton, rather than using EW line
Realtime Trains | 5V83 1318 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter Tmd | 20/12/2025
Real-time train running information for 5V83 1318 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter Tmd on 20/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Although that does create different problems, if there is no suitable station or services, how do people do leisure trips, multiple changes of train to visit the beach isn't going to encourage usage. Or students trying to get to/from University etc. 200 years ago people might not have traveled beyond their village, but not nowadays
Not that the line seems to be used properly, take Saturdays return of a 150 to Exeter, 3 hours from Bletchley to Didcot via Acton, rather than using EW line
Realtime Trains | 5V83 1318 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter Tmd | 20/12/2025
Real-time train running information for 5V83 1318 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to Exeter Tmd on 20/12/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Replied here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...been-designed-more-around-the-railway.296284/
Having been engaged in a range of formal "New Towns" over an extended period, this strange attitude has been a real downside to their development, turning their backs on the rest of the world beyond their designated borders. Notably hardly any such towns had a competent central rail station initially, and when you went into their offices large maps on the wall showed it in complete isolation, as if it was the Isle of Man. Aspects like all employment would be within the town turned out a complete fiction, and the various major factories etc that were encouraged to relocate have notably, a generation later, closed down.
work-traveller
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A curious position for Chiltern to be taking, being as they were involved during the station design phase. It was designed to be:
- Similar in function to the existing new stations between Oxford and Bicester.
- Able to be staffed, with a ticket counter, public toilets, ticket hall.
- Able to operate without staff presence.
- Large car parking provision, including for eV charging, blue badge parking.
- Kiss & ride, bus stops, taxi waiting, staff parking, maintenance vehicle parking.
- Platforms that can be extended without impacting alignment or signalling.
185
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That may be down to traction clearance... I'm guessing EW is cleared for 170s, certain loco & wagons etc, but I doubt other types of stock have been route cleared for it.
Is it some thing as simple as the lighting is almost but not quite good enough for DOO or just no DOO platform cameras and monitors?
PLY2AYS
Member
There’s no platform equipment at all.
Moreover the windows don’t open on 196s, so look back method can’t be used, as well as the fact that it is bi-directional line. So platform equipment is essential.
No update on bodyside cameras, but from grumblings overheard, if there’s a hardware installation required, Chiltern will supposedly need to pay for the entire fleet of 196s to be refitted… by the point an agreement will be theoretically made with that, the lease will have expired.
Edit* I realise the bodyside camera information is speculation at this point.
As you have been told repeatedly, the 196s have bodyside cameras fitted. There's nothing needed to be installed.
Although there has been lots of noise from the RMT over the role or presence of the guard, I've seen nothing from ASLEF. I would to have expected to have seen mention of some sort of communication regarding this point if they felt it was unsuitable.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The DOO issue is simply that the unions won't accept it. The 196s are fitted with cameras which just need to be turned on and properly tested in use, and the drivers trained in their use if they haven't been already.
Their presence isn't speculation, they can be clearly seen on any picture of a 196.
Snow1964
Established Member
Flip flopping union, accept it on routes in some parts of the UK, but not other areas, when did they stop being a national union covering whole UK and start doing local variations.
How will they deal with an England and Wales GBR who are bound to want countrywide consistent policies.
PLY2AYS
Member
We’re delving into that DOO debate again.
I’ll leave it with, the cameras do not work for whatever reason.
To assume no one has ‘switched them on’ until this point seems a little silly, I think we can all agree.
The fact of the matter is at least 33% (if not half) of the stations on EWR aren’t fit for purpose for DOO. If the company wants to run DOO, at least come to the table with the equipment and infrastructure in place at the very stations you helped design and build.
Ideologically the unions of course will oppose the extension of DOO because it protects their members and is seen as a safer railway.
If members of the forum want to chat in my DMs or even over a coffee about it, I’ll be happy to have that frank discussion.
But for fear of getting the thread locked, we should leave it as, I think we can all agree it’s a terrible shame and massively frustrating for staff, company and most importantly, aspiring passengers and rail users.
I’ll leave it with, the cameras do not work for whatever reason.
To assume no one has ‘switched them on’ until this point seems a little silly, I think we can all agree.
The fact of the matter is at least 33% (if not half) of the stations on EWR aren’t fit for purpose for DOO. If the company wants to run DOO, at least come to the table with the equipment and infrastructure in place at the very stations you helped design and build.
Ideologically the unions of course will oppose the extension of DOO because it protects their members and is seen as a safer railway.
If members of the forum want to chat in my DMs or even over a coffee about it, I’ll be happy to have that frank discussion.
But for fear of getting the thread locked, we should leave it as, I think we can all agree it’s a terrible shame and massively frustrating for staff, company and most importantly, aspiring passengers and rail users.
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OxtedSignaller
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The whole situation is laughable, and just goes to show why we need a unified railway organisation encharge. And also management who are pragmatic and trouble shooters... Once you add up the cost of all these delays, it would have been cheaper to rectify all the sticking points and open up the railway.
Or it goes to show that the DfT didn't think about the method of working when they made the decision to award the operating contract to Chiltern. I can see their logic, given Oxford - Bicester Village already operates on a DOO basis.
The same issue would have arisen if GBR was already in place and what is currently Chiltern was the proposed operator, given it would still be the only service at Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central not to have a Guard.
The real tragedy is this would not even feature in the top twenty fiascos of the privatisation era.
fishwomp
Established Member
I wonder what will happen. Chiltern has around 100 days to start this service (right?) before it reverts to GBR. I do wonder what the contract for this looks like and who is paying who for failing to deliver..
Chiltern can't solve the staffing issue - Government pulls the strings; Network Rail may be losing money for services not being run - so failing to get Winslow right pushes blame into their court etc.. If Chiltern was to get a bonus or payment for running the service, perhaps they'd have a call on the govt for compensation etc.. Money could be flowing everywhere..
Now, who would place bets that 1st April - if that's when GBR takes over - is suddenly announced as a launch date for the service? Ironically, everything is already their responsibility today..
That makes it sound like there is a 'magic wand' that can be waved to get the service running just because it falls under GBR or DFTO
Any mobilisation to enable a service would either need to be made by Chiltern in advance of their transfer date, or by DFTO after that date. If it involves recruitment and training of staff, then that will take time whoever does it.
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Chiltern and GWR are due to move to DFTO at some point after GTR. GTR move over on 31st May 2026.
It's vanishingly unlikely that GBR will be in any position to start taking over from DFTO on 1st April 2026, as no date has been set for the Committee stage for the Railways Bill yet, and that's the third stage of twelve on the path to Royal Assent.
fishwomp
Established Member
Thank you. I thought I'd read the March date earlier in the thread.
I'm not making much distinction between DFTO and Gbr.. ! should I ??
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