TfW withdrawals (Now just 150/158s to go)

[158822]

@Caaardiff Valleys drivers and guards work Cardiff to Rhymney though and there are more 153s in storage.

 

[Cardiff123]

If all 150s were to go by around March, which would be strange as they are on lease for another year after that, could they introduce the first 398s into service on Cardiff Bay and put 153s on the VOG if valleys depots are still competent on them.

Or just get on with training mainline crews on 231s so those can finally be put on VoG services?
A Modern Railways article in August / September quoted TfW as saying that a "small number of 150s" in the best condition would be kept going for VoG services until all of the 398s entered service and the related unit cascades in South Wales had taken place.

 

[Caaardiff]

@Caaardiff Valleys drivers and guards work Cardiff to Rhymney though and there are more 153s in storage.

You said VOG, not Rhymney.
Either way, Valleys train crew will not be signing 153's in the near future.

Or just get on with training mainline crews on 231s so those can finally be put on VoG services?
A Modern Railways article in August / September quoted TfW as saying that a "small number of 150s" in the best condition would be kept going for VoG services until all of the 398s entered service and the related unit cascades in South Wales had taken place.

Pointless training mainline on 231's until the 398's start to enter service, as the 231's will be required on Valleys until enough 398's are in service. They would lose competency quite quickly, so you'd be training people, just to have to refresh them again months down the line.

 

[LowLevel]

I see 150279 has escaped to Birmingham International this morning.

 

[158822]

@Caaardiff the trains that run on the VOG run to Rhymney so I assumed it would be implied.

 

[Anonymous10]

I see 150279 has escaped to Birmingham International this morning.

Must be an unusual turn now, wonder how long since the last went there.

 

[WirralLine]

I see 150279 has escaped to Birmingham International this morning.

Its currently working 1D13 International to Holyhead as far as Chester where it detaches.. cant remember the last time one reached Chester!

I thought it might get pulled off at Shrewsbury but can confirm its continued as ive got a friend whos onboard.

Edit, looks like it doesnt split but rather has a set swop at Chester and the pair goes back down to Shrewsbury on 1I18 1327 off Chester before being swapped out again at Shrewsbury.

 

[tfw756rider]

Must be an unusual turn now, wonder how long since the last went there.

I wonder if it was the first 150 to Birmingham since 197s (rather than 158s) started to be used on some Birmingham services in February 2025?

Edit: It wasn't:

Bikeman78 said: Searching through emails, the last one I can find is 150278 on 17/05/25.

 

[Bikeman78]

Have they all reached their c6 or being retired early?

Retired early. C6 don't expire until well into next year. As it turns out, only 150241 went to Landore.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==

Possibly out of budget for more overhauls to 150s

Although not yet clear if it is full withdrawal, or temporary storage and could be put back into service if other units fail or run out of hours.

I think the maintenance contracts all end 31st March 2026 anyway (which is why there are published tenders for extra 3 years maintenance to March 2029 for the 153 and 158, 230 and mk4 fleets). So on face of it all remaining 150s will be stood down during March (which is consistent with talk elsewhere of 398s entering service in Feb-March)

No overhauls are being done. There are currently 13 class 150 diagrams, nine on the valleys and four on the mainline. Nothing else could do Rhymney to Bridgend. You could split the service at Cardiff but that causes platform issues and requires even more sets or impossibly tight turn rounds.

You'd need at least eight trams in service covering complete diagrams just to displace the valleys turns. That's a lot of crew training. The four mainline could potentially be covered by bringing back more 153s. Personally, I'd be astonished if the 150s are all gone by the end of March.

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Or just get on with training mainline crews on 231s so those can finally be put on VoG services?

Would that make any difference? If 231s switched to the VoG, what would cover their existing diagrams? The only way to free up 150s off the valleys is to start running the 398s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==

Must be an unusual turn now, wonder how long since the last went there.

Searching through emails, the last one I can find is 150278 on 17/05/25.

 

[Anonymous10]

Retired early. C6 don't expire until well into next year. As it turns out, only 150241 went to Landore.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==


No overhauls are being done. There are currently 13 class 150 diagrams, nine on the valleys and four on the mainline. Nothing else could do Rhymney to Bridgend. You could split the service at Cardiff but that causes platform issues and requires even more sets or impossibly tight turn rounds.

You'd need at least eight trams in service covering complete diagrams just to displace the valleys turns. That's a lot of crew training. The four mainline could potentially be covered by bringing back more 153s. Personally, I'd be astonished if the 150s are all gone by the end of March.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==


Would that make any difference? If 231s switched to the VoG, what would cover their existing diagrams? The only way to free up 150s off the valleys is to start running the 398s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Dec 2025 ==


Searching through emails, the last one I can find is 150278 on 17/05/25.

I wonder if 241 could head over to GWR as they seem to need a 150 or two to help cover till 175s are in full service. Was rumours about some going a few weeks ago.

 

[Rich McLean]

I wonder if 241 could head over to GWR as they seem to need a 150 or two to help cover till 175s are in full service. Was rumours about some going a few weeks ago.

They won't really be needed until January. Can't see it happening, for what will be a limited amount of time.

 

[Anonymous10]

They won't really be needed until January. Can't see it happening, for what will be a limited amount of time.

Suppose it depends on the leasers and such. There would be nothing stopping them going even for just a few weeks as no training would be needed. Will be interesting to see.

 

[Cardiff123]

If TfW does now have surplus 150s (which is hard to believe as the VoG could benefit from strengthened services throughout the day) then TfW could sub-lease 'spare' 150s to GWR, as Nothern did to TfW a few years ago.

 

[BillStampy]

If TfW does now have surplus 150s (which is hard to believe as the VoG could benefit from strengthened services throughout the day) then TfW could sub-lease 'spare' 150s to GWR, as Nothern did to TfW a few years ago.

I might've found a reason as to why they've suddenly dumped a few, Canton capacity. Two pairs of 153s (AT05/06) came back to Canton today after two 150s have left. Considering a MK4 set left Canton the night before last week to make space at Canton that might be the reason as to why.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I might've found a reason as to why they've suddenly dumped a few, Canton capacity. Two pairs of 153s (AT05/06) came back to Canton today after two 150s have left. Considering a MK4 set left Canton the night before last week to make space at Canton that might be the reason as to why.

I thought AT05 was at Crewe. It was there yesterday.

 

[Roger B]

I might've found a reason as to why they've suddenly dumped a few, Canton capacity. Two pairs of 153s (AT05/06) came back to Canton today after two 150s have left. Considering a MK4 set left Canton the night before last week to make space at Canton that might be the reason as to why.

First time I've seen a referance to AT06 being out and about. Anyone know its formation, and when it entered service, please?

Many thanks

 

[sd0733]

First time I've seen a referance to AT06 being out and about. Anyone know its formation, and when it entered service, please?

Many thanks

AT06 has been added to the system this evening. Shown as vehicles 153568 and 153327

 

[BillStampy]

I thought AT05 was at Crewe. It was there yesterday.

Not sure about you but AT05 hasn't been out in about 72 days.

 

[Adlee Turner]

Or just get on with training mainline crews on 231s so those can finally be put on VoG services?
A Modern Railways article in August / September quoted TfW as saying that a "small number of 150s" in the best condition would be kept going for VoG services until all of the 398s entered service and the related unit cascades in South Wales had taken place.

The 231s will be operating to Maesteg, Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale. Only the 3 car 756s will operate to the Bridgend via the VOG.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2025 ==

Awe bummer, 251 is my last one.

150251 was back out last night working 2R60 to Rhymney where it stabled overnight.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2025 ==

If all 150s were to go by around March, which would be strange as they are on lease for another year after that, could they introduce the first 398s into service on Cardiff Bay and put 153s on the VOG if valleys depots are still competent on them.

Unfortunately, we’ve had an internal brief stating that we can no longer work 153s due to being out of competency so there will be no chance of the 153s appearing back on the valleys.

 

[Roger B]

AT06 has been added to the system this evening. Shown as vehicles 153568 and 153327

Many thanks sd0733 - much appreciated

 

[SWML9102]

Only the 3 car 756s will operate to the Bridgend via the VOG.

Surely the 3-car 756s on the Penarth-Caerphilly-Coryton circuit, and the 4-car on Rhymney valley to Barry Island / VoG? Or will VoG be short changed yet again?

 

[AdamWW]

Surely the 3-car 756s on the Penarth-Caerphilly-Coryton circuit, and the 4-car on Rhymney valley to Barry Island / VoG? Or will VoG be short changed yet again?

Penarth-Caerphilly-Coryton needs 5 out of the 7 3 car 756s and so far as I know can't have the 4 car ones due to the platform lengths.

So I hope if they are also required for the VOG route that a 4 car 756 will be allowed to deputise if necessary.

 

[MikePJ]

There is a job in the project plan for "December 2025" to install ASDO beacons on the VoG, Penarth and Coryton lines. Perhaps that will help with allowing 4-car units to places where they don't currently go?

 

[Cardiff123]

The 231s will be operating to Maesteg, Cheltenham and Ebbw Vale. Only the 3 car 756s will operate to the Bridgend via the VOG.

Yes I'm aware, but my point was that currently the 231s are working Rhymney / Bargoed - Barry Island services, and will be for many months yet as we wait for the full introduction of the 398s, so to allow 231s to run on the VoG whilst we're waiting for the heavily delayed introduction of the 398s, get mainline crews trained on 231s now, as they'll be working them eventually anyway. But as has been explained to me, it's not as simple as that.

As for 3 car 756s eventually working the VoG, I dont think there's a line more short changed in the "Metro" area than the VoG if that's the case. Increased frequency beyond 1tph (2tph on Sundays) cancelled, still stuck on 2 car 150s, whilst every other Cardiff area line has new trains with more capacity, and now it'll get replacement trains with not much more capacity than a 2 car 150?

 

[Adlee Turner]

Yes I'm aware, but my point was that currently the 231s are working Rhymney / Bargoed - Barry Island services, and will be for many months yet as we wait for the full introduction of the 398s, so to allow 231s to run on the VoG whilst we're waiting for the heavily delayed introduction of the 398s, get mainline crews trained on 231s now, as they'll be working them eventually anyway. But as has been explained to me, it's not as simple as that.

As for 3 car 756s eventually working the VoG, I dont think there's a line more short changed in the "Metro" area than the VoG if that's the case. Increased frequency beyond 1tph (2tph on Sundays) cancelled, still stuck on 2 car 150s, whilst every other Cardiff area line has new trains with more capacity, and now it'll get replacement trains with not much more capacity than a 2 car 150?

I believe the issue with 231s on the VOG is they are too big for the bay platform at Bridgend hence the reason for the 3 car 756s being used. At the moment, it’s still up the air in terms of who’s going to be doing the VOG going forwards whether it be valleys or remain mainline or mixture of both or whether mainline will get trained on the 756s as well. I know mainline crew training has begun on the 231s at Canton and a 231 recently completed fuel consumption runs to Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham.

 

[AdamWW]

I believe the issue with 231s on the VOG is they are too big for the bay platform at Bridgend hence the reason for the 3 car 756s being used. At the moment, it’s still up the air in terms of who’s going to be doing the VOG going forwards whether it be valleys or remain mainline or mixture of both or whether mainline will get trained on the 756s as well. I know mainline crew training has begun on the 231s at Canton and a 231 recently completed fuel consumption runs to Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham.

Only being able to run 3 car 756s on the VOG doesn't seem compatible with the 7 units that TfW have.

5 for Caerphilly-Coryton-Penarth + how many for the VOG? (+ margin to allow for maintenance/failures)....

 

[SWML9102]

I believe the issue with 231s on the VOG is they are too big for the bay platform at Bridgend hence the reason for the 3 car 756s being used.

A 231 or 4-car 756 is 80.7 m long. The bay platform at Bridgend can happily accommodate a 4-car 150, which is just shy of 80 m, so this is very unlikely the issue. It's the fact that only Valleys drivers are trained on them, but don't sign the route between Barry and Bridgend.

Only being able to run 3 car 756s on the VOG doesn't seem compatible with the 7 units that TfW have.

5 for Caerphilly-Coryton-Penarth + how many for the VOG? (+ margin to allow for maintenance/failures)....

Caerphilly-Coryton-Penarth is 5 diagrams.
The current timetable has 13 diagrams on Rhymney/Bargoed to Barry Island/Bridgend. Two more diagrams would be needed to overlay an additional additional hourly Cardiff-Bridgend service, which I think is the plan. It would be more efficient to keep 4tph to Barry and divert one of the 3tph Barry Island trains to Bridgend instead. Bear in mind it is also planned to extend the Bargoed terminators giving Rhymney 4tph. I think that could be done with 15 diagrams, but even that would be quite intensive diagraming for a fleet of 17 4-car units.

 

[Jez]

It woud make sense to me for VOG to switch to Valley's. At the moment with mainline and valleys both signing 150s it isnt an issue. But this means mainline will need to learn both 231 and 756. However given they are quite similar it might not be an issue for them to learn both and in the long run if they need a 756 to cover a 231 diagram for example it could make sense that both depots learn both.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2025 ==

Going back to the 150s and 153s they really seem to be using them a lot recently. As well as the 5 diagrams for the 150s outside of the Valleys we have seem them regularly covering on Maesteg/Cheltenham/Pembroke Dock. 153s also turned up on a Pembroke Dock working the other day, the first time in a while.

 

[Cardiff123]

Only being able to run 3 car 756s on the VOG doesn't seem compatible with the 7 units that TfW have.

5 for Caerphilly-Coryton-Penarth + how many for the VOG? (+ margin to allow for maintenance/failures)....

Rhymney to Bridgend currently is 4 diagrams daily for the 1tph service to Bridgend. So if 4 car 756s or 231s won't fit in the VoG bay platform at Bridgend, TfW need to get some 150s through C6 overhauls, as there's not enough 3 car 756s in the fleet to run a full daily service on Penarth - Coryton / Caerphilly and Rhymney to Bridgend.

A 231 or 4-car 756 is 80.7 m long. The bay platform at Bridgend can happily accommodate a 4-car 150, which is just shy of 80 m, so this is very unlikely the issue. It's the fact that only Valleys drivers are trained on them, but don't sign the route between Barry and Bridgend.

Caerphilly-Coryton-Penarth is 5 diagrams.
The current timetable has 13 diagrams on Rhymney/Bargoed to Barry Island/Bridgend. Two more diagrams would be needed to overlay an additional additional hourly Cardiff-Bridgend service, which I think is the plan. It would be more efficient to keep 4tph to Barry and divert one of the 3tph Barry Island trains to Bridgend instead. Bear in mind it is also planned to extend the Bargoed terminators giving Rhymney 4tph. I think that could be done with 15 diagrams, but even that would be quite intensive diagraming for a fleet of 17 4-car units.

The extra services on the VoG have been postponed indefinitely, aside from 1 extra AM and PM peak service. So the VoG is stuck at 1tph Mon to Sat and 2tph Sundays for the foreseeable future

 

[Anonymous10]

Rhymney to Bridgend currently is 4 diagrams daily for the 1tph service to Bridgend. So if 4 car 756s or 231s won't fit in the VoG bay platform at Bridgend, TfW need to get some 150s through C6 overhauls, as there's not enough 3 car 756s in the fleet to run a full daily service on Penarth - Coryton / Caerphilly and Rhymney to Bridgend.


The extra services on the VoG have been postponed indefinitely, aside from 1 extra AM and PM peak service. So the VoG is stuck at 1tph Mon to Sat and 2tph Sundays for the foreseeable future

Do you mean a sunday service of .5 tph ie 1 train / 2 hours