Urgent - Investgiation - response due tomorrow

[art4life55]

Hi all, hoping someone can help!!!

In august I got stopped by a revenue protection officer at vauxhall and reported for having a ticket two stops less than my journey - in hindsight i was completely in the wrong here, I had just been running late to a new job and at the time i lived at a station with no barriers so had rushed on and bought the ticket once already on

I have just received a follow up email about the investigation, where they have attached a lot of previous journeys over the past four years where they suspect short fares/not having covered the whole journey. Whilst I do not remember all journeys over such a long period of time, I’m worried that I might have been in the wrong for some of them (which I take full responsibility for) - at the time I was a broke student trying to get to work in wimbledon, and i can recall at least at some point doing the same thing as above and getting a ticket once i’d rushed onto the train, often getting a ticket to earlsfield - at the time i thought this was fine as it went via wimbledon and i’d sometimes get on and off there too, with my way back varying between driving home or using the bus (not using the complete ticket), or sometimes getting back on with the same ticket and going the other way. I know this is not an excuse and I accept full responsibility for this as I know I was in the wrong, but I am terrified of this going to court or the investigation continuing as it has already had such a huge affect on my mental health. I would like to pay any fine they deem necessary straight away, does anyone know what the best response would be to ensure this outcome?

For at least the last 6 months + I have been religiously buying travelcards and using my oyster, if anything paying more than I need to be to get to work, and my nearest station is now one with definite barriers so I know I would never accidentally do the same thing, I just really want them to see this and know the case is dumb mistakes from when I was younger and I really am sorry, I’m even happy to pay the maximum fine if necessary!

Sorry if I rambled on a bit, just very scared about the situation and would really appreciate any advice!!!!!!!

Thank you so so much

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2025 ==

also to note I would still go to earlsfield as the end journey too! sorry forgot to add

 

[z444z]

To secure an out of court settlement you need to follow the process they’re asking you to follow. This means going through their spreadsheet and filling it in to the best of your ability.

You might find this thread helpful, it also involves an SWR spreadsheet going back many years and uncertainty over which were legitimate and which weren’t:

SWR Intent to prosecute, but half the tickets are legitimate. Please help.

Hi all, Im new to this forum so please feel free to inform me If I am doing something against convention or forum rules. I was issued an MG11 notice of intent to prosecute by SWR in early may of this year, because I had an expired railcard and was travelling on it unknowingly. Upon being told...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, hoping someone can help!!!

In august I got stopped by a revenue protection officer at vauxhall and reported for having a ticket two stops less than my journey - in hindsight i was completely in the wrong here, I had just been running late to a new job and at the time i lived at a station with no barriers so had rushed on and bought the ticket once already on

I have just received a follow up email about the investigation, where they have attached a lot of previous journeys over the past four years where they suspect short fares/not having covered the whole journey. Whilst I do not remember all journeys over such a long period of time, I’m worried that I might have been in the wrong for some of them (which I take full responsibility for) - at the time I was a broke student trying to get to work in wimbledon, and i can recall at least at some point doing the same thing as above and getting a ticket once i’d rushed onto the train, often getting a ticket to earlsfield - at the time i thought this was fine as it went via wimbledon and i’d sometimes get on and off there too, with my way back varying between driving home or using the bus (not using the complete ticket), or sometimes getting back on with the same ticket and going the other way. I know this is not an excuse and I accept full responsibility for this as I know I was in the wrong, but I am terrified of this going to court or the investigation continuing as it has already had such a huge affect on my mental health. I would like to pay any fine they deem necessary straight away, does anyone know what the best response would be to ensure this outcome?

For at least the last 6 months + I have been religiously buying travelcards and using my oyster, if anything paying more than I need to be to get to work, and my nearest station is now one with definite barriers so I know I would never accidentally do the same thing, I just really want them to see this and know the case is dumb mistakes from when I was younger and I really am sorry, I’m even happy to pay the maximum fine if necessary!

Sorry if I rambled on a bit, just very scared about the situation and would really appreciate any advice!!!!!!!

Thank you so so much

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Dec 2025 ==

also to note I would still go to earlsfield as the end journey too! sorry forgot to add

The basic approach (that you can see working in other threads) is to
- apologise for what's happened
- seek to convince them you have changed your behaviour and will pay correct fares always in future
- and to co-operate with their investigation

as mentioned by @z444z completing their spreadsheet as accurately as you can (and if there are instances where you simply can not recall what you did then you will have to state that in the box concerned IMHO) is part of the co-operation element of this.

Otherwise they are most likely to just escalate to court and you will be prosecuted, almost certainly found guilty and have a court fine / criminal record etc

They will also start asking you for things like attending interviews under caution to discuss what they have found (which is usually advised not to attend without representation lest you incriminate yourself further - ie a solicitor at considerable expense to you in paying the solicitor)

securing the out of court settlement offer is the better outcome for most people

 

[art4life55]

Thank you so much!!! I am willing to do whatever is needed to avoid court and really hoping they accept the settlement request, do you think there is anything particularly that would make them want to go to court rather than deal with this now? I agree that the settlement offer should be the better outcome for everyone involved.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much!!! I am willing to do whatever is needed to avoid court and really hoping they accept the settlement request, do you think there is anything particularly that would make them want to go to court rather than deal with this now? I agree that the settlement offer should be the better outcome for everyone involved.

from what we generally see they don't usually want to go to court but the sort of things that might make it more likely would be things like

- being caught before and not changing your ways (inc records of previous Penalty Fares to your name for ticketing 'errors')
- they don't believe what you are telling them about any evasion (ie lies basically)
- aggravating factors like when stopped abusing staff or assaulting staff etc which makes the whole thing more serious for obvious reasons.

More generally

If you are responding and will send a written response seeking a settlement along with your spreadsheet you may wish to post your draft response here for checking before you send it

You will of course find examples of the sort of response on other threads if you have a look - this general advice given on the forum written by another forum member may give you a good overview of the context and way forward etc.

Clearly some of this below has already happened in your case.


Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare(s) and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

 

[Snow1964]

If you moved house and/or job and your normal stations changed, clearly state that with dates.

The default position they will use is the normal start and end stations are same for whole period, and will base spreadsheet on that. Assume they don't know about any moves

So if the spreadsheet is wrong annotate it, and if there are clear blocks because home or work station changed make sure that is clear too. There might be lots of underpaid fares, but if going to pay them in a block settlement then should be agreeing to correct amount.

 

[art4life55]

Thank you so much! Reading through advice now and writing my response, i’ll put a draft in here first to double check! Just wondering, is the maximum fare still £1000 for this, or is it different in this circumstance? Fine either way, just want to prepare.

 

[z444z]

Thank you so much! Reading through advice now and writing my response, i’ll put a draft in here first to double check! Just wondering, is the maximum fare still £1000 for this, or is it different in this circumstance? Fine either way, just want to prepare.

There is no maximum, they will want you to pay for all of the fares you have avoided, probably at the higher Anytime rate, and are unlikely to take into account any invalid tickets you did pay for.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thank you so much! Reading through advice now and writing my response, i’ll put a draft in here first to double check! Just wondering, is the maximum fare still £1000 for this, or is it different in this circumstance? Fine either way, just want to prepare.

It seems most likely that what's happening is that the railway is trying to recover unpaid fares from you rather than to fine you.

I know that sounds pedantic, but there's a limit of £1000 on a fine: for recovering fares the amount that the railway may want back will be the fares that you didn't pay. There's also an ongoing argument about how those fares should be calculated: the railway tends to charge the anytime single fare (i.e. the most expensive one with no discount for travelling off peak, having a railcard, getting a return ticket etc.) for the whole journey, but a lot of people here think that the charge should be the difference between what was paid and what should have been paid.

The practical upshot of this is that what the railway will charge will be based on what journeys you didn't pay the fares for. From what they've told you, they already have a fair idea of which journeys they're looking at, and you can work out from there what sort of amount they will be looking at. But it won't be capped at £1,000 if it comes to more than that.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much! Reading through advice now and writing my response, i’ll put a draft in here first to double check! Just wondering, is the maximum fare still £1000 for this, or is it different in this circumstance? Fine either way, just want to prepare.

As others have indicated I think you are confusing the maximum fine a court can impose for this offence (in reality a court fine is set according to sentencing formula - it is the punishment for the offence it's not related to what the railway believe you owe them in evaded fares) - an out of court settlement is a sum you pay in exchange for this not going to court (so no 'fine' gets imposed) - but that's not a sum they can just dream up - it needs to relate to what they believe you owe plus their admin costs. That is why they are asking you about previous travel - so they can establish what you owe them and charge you at the most expensive but genuine fare they can use. It's a take it or leave it 'offer' though - leave it and it will most likely be escalated to court.

You should privately go through your own ticket buying records to see what you believe you have evaded to get a sense of what you owe them vs what they might ask you for.

Hope that helps clarify.

 

[anothertyke]

You should privately go through your own ticket buying records to see what you believe you have evaded to get a sense of what you owe them vs what they might ask you for.

Hope that helps clarify.

Agree. If your top priority is to minimise the risk of going to court, I would begin by applying the test--- are there any journeys in there which are demonstrably wrong? For example because I can prove I was out of the country or have never been to place x etc. If there are, engage with SWR explaining that you can show particular entries are wrong and why.

Then you come to the rest and you have to ask yourself how credible buying tickets to Earlsfield (say) and then catching the bus the rest of the way actually is. If there is a pattern in the data, and your priority is an out of court settlement, you may have to yield on the journeys which look very similar to what you have been caught for. Then you know what you are potentially on the hook for.

 

[art4life55]

Hi all, thank you so much, I am finishing writing my draft and will put it in here as I am back from work now - I was just wondering, does it mean anything in particular that they have titled the spreadsheet 'pre-court partial disclosure' - or am I overthinking that? I am willing to be fully co-operative, tracking all of my journeys now and filling out the form.

I was also wondering, I have proof of getting out at Wimbledon sometimes and completing my journey by other means - is it worth trying to prove this for the relevant ones, or to avoid court shall I just accept all? Thanks

 

[z444z]

I was also wondering, I have proof of getting out at Wimbledon sometimes and completing my journey by other means - is it worth trying to prove this for the relevant ones, or to avoid court shall I just accept all? Thanks

What proof do you have?

 

[art4life55]

Only photos in my camera roll with the locations of where I was at those times, or tfl bus charges on the same day but I realise that may not suffice unfortunately.

What proof do you have?

photos with the locations and times of where I was on those days, alongside tfl bus charges but I now realise that may unfortunately not suffice.

 

[AlterEgo]

Only photos in my camera roll with the locations of where I was at those times, or tfl bus charges on the same day but I realise that may not suffice unfortunately.

photos with the locations and times of where I was on those days, alongside tfl bus charges but I now realise that may unfortunately not suffice.

Bus charges prove literally nothing and the location, date and time data on a phone camera roll can be edited anyway. It wouldn't be very good evidence.

 

[z444z]

Only photos in my camera roll with the locations of where I was at those times, or tfl bus charges on the same day but I realise that may not suffice unfortunately.

I don’t think photos will do it, timestamps and location can be edited and no doubt SWR will be used to people trying that.

If you have TFL journey history showing you used the bus at a time that corresponds with use of a train ticket and the bus route number checks out, then that will be pretty good evidence, but as far as I know journey history is only available for 8 weeks. It’s worth checking now - if you can prove that one ticket they suspect is fraudulent isn’t, they may accept that others on that route aren’t either.

 

[art4life55]

Hi, so far I have this:

Dear ____


Thank you for your email allowing me the opportunity to explain my rail travel and actions.

I would like to first and foremost offer my sincerest apologies for my past actions and the inconvenience it has caused to you and South Western Railway. I understand the seriousness of the situation and would like to resolve this matter without the need for proceeding to court.

I have reviewed and completed the attached spreadsheet as accurately as I am able to recall, and have added a column for relevant notes beside the journeys, and including the relevant full-price fares.

I sincerely apologise for my actions at the time of the journeys in question, I was unfortunately struggling with my circumstances as a student at the time and I regrettably travelled without covering all of my entire journeys - of which I have listed below. I fully acknowledge that this was unacceptable, regardless of the situation, and I should have always ensured that my ticket was fully valid prior to starting the journey.

I am extremely sorry for my previous mistakes, and can assure you that they will not be repeated - I can confirm I now ensure my entire journeys are fully compliant and covered by my Travelcard, oyster and railcard.

I am very keen to resolve this matter promptly and respectfully in cooperation with you, without the need for court proceedings. I would therefore be very grateful if you would consider allowing me to settle the matter by paying all of the outstanding fares, alongside reasonable administrative costs incurred along this process.

Thank you so much for your time, I would appreciate your guidance on the next steps.

Sincerely,
__________

 

[z444z]

It’s a bit long, repetitive and jumbled up, I’d suggest a few changes. I’m guessing you’ve decided not to pursue the bus explanation? My draft based on yours is below. I’d suggest you wait until early afternoon to allow others to give their feedback, but if today is the deadline they’ve given do make sure you’ve sent it by like 3-4pm.

REFERENCE: [INSERT REFERENCE]

Thank you for your email dated [INSERT DATE OF EMAIL].

I have reviewed and completed the attached spreadsheet as accurately as my memory allows given the timescales involved, and have added a column for relevant notes beside the journeys, and including the relevant full-price fares.

I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for the inconvenience I have caused South Western Railway. I understand the seriousness of my actions and can assure you that they will not be repeated - I now ensure I hold a valid ticket for every journey I make.

I am keen to resolve this matter promptly without the need for court proceedings. I would therefore be very grateful if you would allow me to settle the matter by paying the outstanding fares as well as your administrative costs.

[SIGN OFF]

 

[art4life55]

It’s a bit long, repetitive and jumbled up, I’d suggest a few changes. I’m guessing you’ve decided not to pursue the bus explanation? My draft based on yours is below. I’d suggest you wait until early afternoon to allow others to give their feedback, but if today is the deadline they’ve given do make sure you’ve sent it by like 3-4pm.

Thank you so so much , I really appreciate it! I have been trying to find records of the bus journeys and petrol from the times when I was driving, but I am worried this will look like I'm making excuse when I am not, and I don't want to ruin any chances of settlement, so I'm not sure!!

another large factor into my previous journeys had been living by a station with no barriers at the time - so when I was running late I got into the habit of buying the ticket as soon as I got on the train (horrible I know!), is this worth mentioning? I have also moved since and commute to Farringdon daily (travel card) - not sure if this should be mentioned

 

[z444z]

another large factor into my previous journeys had been living by a station with no barriers at the time - so when I was running late I got into the habit of buying the ticket as soon as I got on the train (horrible I know!), is this worth mentioning?

No.

I have also moved since and commute to Farringdon daily (travel card) - not sure if this should be mentioned

If you now regularly purchase travelcards it might be worth mentioning this to them as an indication that you have changed your ways.

 

[art4life55]

thank you! updated draft with your feedback and some others:

Dear___

Thank you for your email and for allowing me the opportunity to explain my rail travel and actions.

First and foremost, I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for my past actions and for the inconvenience this has caused to you and South Western Railway.

I have completed the attached spreadsheet as accurately as I am able to recall given the timescales involved, and have added a column for relevant notes alongside the journeys, together with the current full-price fare for each journey.

I sincerely apologise for my actions at the time of the journeys in question. Unfortunately I was struggling with my circumstances as a student living in London while managing a new job in Wimbledon, and I regret that I travelled without fully covering all of my journeys. I fully acknowledge that this was unacceptable, regardless of my situation, and I should always have ensured that my ticket was valid for the entire journey before travelling.

I am extremely sorry for my previous mistakes and understand the severity of my situation. I have learnt from this experience and can confirm that my travel is now always fully compliant and covered by regular Zones 1–5 Travelcards, Oyster and Railcard. I will not repeat my previous actions.

I am very keen to resolve this matter promptly and respectfully, in cooperation with you, without the need for court proceedings. I would therefore be very grateful if you would allow me to settle the matter by paying the outstanding fares as well as your administrative costs.

Thank you very much for your time. I would appreciate your guidance on the next steps.

Please anyone let me know your thoughts, I know it's definitely too wordy at the moment!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Dec 2025 ==

hey all, i’m going to reply at 10 so would greatly appreciate if anyone else had any more advice / thoughts

- sincerely, a terrified grad lol

 

[anothertyke]

I would say only apologise once.

First sentence Ok

Second sentence OK. Then add in same para I regret that I travelled without fully covering all my journeys. I fully acknowledge.....( as in para 3_

then I understand the severity of my situation. I have learnt from this experience ( as in para 5)

delete para 3.

Then para 2 i have completed the attached s/sheet

The rest is Ok. personally I would delete 'and respectfully'.

You express regret. You state how you are now behaving. You demonstrate cooperation in reaching an out of court settlement. That is fit for purpose.

 

[art4life55]

Thanks! is this better?

Dear ____


Thank you for your email and for allowing me the opportunity to explain my rail travel and actions.



First and foremost, I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for my past actions and for the inconvenience this has caused to you and South Western Railway. Unfortunately I was struggling with my circumstances as a student living in London at the time while managing a new job in Wimbledon, and I regret that I travelled without fully covering all of my journeys. I fully acknowledge that this was unacceptable, regardless of my situation, and I should always have ensured that my ticket was valid for the entire journey before travelling.

I understand the severity of my situation, have learnt from this experience. I can confirm that my travel is now always fully compliant and covered by regular Zones 1–5 Travelcards, Oyster and Railcard. I will not repeat my previous actions.

I have completed the attached spreadsheet as accurately as I am able to recall given the timescales involved, and have added a column for relevant notes alongside the journeys, together with the current full-price fare for each journey.

I am very keen to resolve this matter promptly in cooperation with you, without the need for court proceedings. I would therefore be very grateful if you would allow me to settle the matter by paying the outstanding fares as well as your administrative costs.

Thank you very much for your time. I would appreciate your guidance on the next steps

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks! is this better?

Dear ____


Thank you for your email and for allowing me the opportunity to explain my rail travel and actions.



First and foremost, I would like to offer my sincerest apologies for my past actions and for the inconvenience this has caused to you and South Western Railway. Unfortunately I was struggling with my circumstances as a student living in London at the time while managing a new job in Wimbledon, and I regret that I travelled without fully covering all of my journeys. I fully acknowledge that this was unacceptable, regardless of my situation, and I should always have ensured that my ticket was valid for the entire journey before travelling.

I understand the severity of my situation, have learnt from this experience. I can confirm that my travel is now always fully compliant and covered by regular Zones 1–5 Travelcards, Oyster and Railcard. I will not repeat my previous actions.

I have completed the attached spreadsheet as accurately as I am able to recall given the timescales involved, and have added a column for relevant notes alongside the journeys, together with the current full-price fare for each journey.

I am very keen to resolve this matter promptly in cooperation with you, without the need for court proceedings. I would therefore be very grateful if you would allow me to settle the matter by paying the outstanding fares as well as your administrative costs.

Thank you very much for your time. I would appreciate your guidance on the next steps

Small suggestion to this. I wouldn’t say ‘fully covering’ really. Maybe ‘without paying the correct fare for all my journeys’. In the sentence concerned.

Insert their case ref number clearly at the top so the reader can match your reply up with the file easily.

Ensure the ref number also on any attachment ie the spreadsheet.

Naturally keep copies of everything.

 

[art4life55]

Thank you so much, i have made these changes! lastly, do you think i have done everything i can do to ask for a settlement/avoid court, or is there anything outstanding?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much, i have made these changes! lastly, do you think i have done everything i can do to ask for a settlement/avoid court, or is there anything outstanding?

It’s the spirit of co operation and preparedness to pay what they believe you have evaded that helps avoid court so I think you’re going in the right direction.

Can’t think of more to add at this stage.