Best option for getting new trains

[northwichcat]

Don't let Hull Trains renew their 180 lease. They'll probably buy some new trains. They've previously bought the 170s and let Scotrail have them when they got 222s, then let EMT have them.

 

[Failed Unit]

But the word is lease, so it is back to getting the ROSCO to take the risk! As you know the problem is now getting someone to underwrite the risk. I wonder if a rosco ordered a load of new EMUs if northern would be allowed to lease them or if the 319s will forced on them.

Big problem no Market forces, northern could be operating DMUs under the wires because they have no EMUs. If a rosco took the risk northern would not be allowed to lease them. Crazy.

 

[tbtc]

Neither Grand Central nor WSMR bought new trains, so I'm sceptical that HT would buy a third new lot. Plus, we're only talking about four (or so) units.

 

[mallard]

Both HTs 170s and 222s were add-ons to existing rolling stock orders. What order would they append to now?

 

[gordonthemoron]

IEP? I'll get me coat

 

[ainsworth74]

IEP?

It might not be a bad idea assuming that IEP includes a Bi-mode version (I'm maintaining a forlorn hope that it won't) as a Bi-mode IEP would allow HT to use the wires as far as Doncaster and GC to use wires as far as Doncaster/Notherallerton. Which would be a big improvement over the current situation where at present on HT for instance on a journey of 205 miles around 155 miles is spent under the wires!

 

[Nym]

It might not be a bad idea assuming that IEP includes a Bi-mode version (I'm maintaining a forlorn hope that it won't) as a Bi-mode IEP would allow HT to use the wires as far as Doncaster and GC to use wires as far as Doncaster/Notherallerton. Which would be a big improvement over the current situation where at present on HT for instance on a journey of 205 miles around 155 miles is spent under the wires!

Yep, it does seem ideal for the likes of HT and GC.

Especially if the're more easilly joinable, GC could use one path to London and split at Doncaster for Sunderland and Bradford.

Also, the contract for the IEP will be to provide servicable units, so should make HT operations more reliable. And if some IEPs work their ways into the mitts of TPE it could end up as a combined operation. Now I'll really get my coat...

 

[route:oxford]

Surely the best way to get new trains is to add additional units to known planned orders.

GoCo are claiming that they will be ordering new stock for their Westbury-West Midlands services due to start in 2013.

It would be interesting if the Coop movement were to become a Rosco in addition to operating services.

 

[anthony263]

Surely the best way to get new trains is to add additional units to known planned orders.

GoCo are claiming that they will be ordering new stock for their Westbury-West Midlands services due to start in 2013.

It would be interesting if the Coop movement were to become a Rosco in addition to operating services.

How about a few Bi-mode clas 172's and lease them to FGW?, i wonder if it might be a good idea for GOCO to become a rosco as well as a open acess train operator. Whats teh latest about their plans anyway? it seems mr wolmar is a fan of what they are trying to do.

 

[starrymarkb]

BiMode 172s would be a bit hard with the mechanical transmission. Maybe better to start out with the Electrostar and add generators

Mind you Bombardier do have Bi-Mode experience in France with the AGC*, maybe a UK version of one of those...

*AGC is an SNCF regional unit, comes in Dual Voltage EMU, DEMU and EDMU versions

 

[N Levers]

Especially if the're more easilly joinable, GC could use one path to London and split at Doncaster for Sunderland and Bradford.

I thought Network rail were against this as there was indesicison about what happens if one portion is late...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I thought Network rail were against this as there was indesicison about what happens if one portion is late...

Although I know during enginering work they have...

 

[mallard]

BiMode 172s would be a bit hard with the mechanical transmission. Maybe better to start out with the Electrostar and add generators

The only feasible way of making a dual-mode 17x would be to have a completely separate electric traction system. This is possible, some EMUs (such as the Cl321) have all the traction equipment on one carriage with the others being trailers, but it would require uprated engines on the diesel vehicles as such a carriage would effectively a heavy trailer when on diesel power. Still, no real reason why you couldn't have a lower top speed off-wires to compensate, particularly since with separate traction systems you can have different gearings for each.

 

[LE Greys]

The only feasible way of making a dual-mode 17x would be to have a completely separate electric traction system. This is possible, some EMUs (such as the Cl321) have all the traction equipment on one carriage with the others being trailers, but it would require uprated engines on the diesel vehicles as such a carriage would effectively a heavy trailer when on diesel power. Still, no real reason why you couldn't have a lower top speed off-wires to compensate, particularly since with separate traction systems you can have different gearings for each.

It's been done. One proposal was to do a version with a transformer car and a diesel engine.

 

[northwichcat]

Yep, it does seem ideal for the likes of HT and GC.

There is a 6 car DEMU Polaris train designed which could be used for Grand Central and rival Alliance Rail if they get awarded new services. If Grand Central replace 180s with these then could Hull Trains want to do likewise? They should be able to reduce both fuel costs and maintenance costs if they did so.

 

[starrymarkb]

The only feasible way of making a dual-mode 17x would be to have a completely separate electric traction system. This is possible, some EMUs (such as the Cl321) have all the traction equipment on one carriage with the others being trailers, but it would require uprated engines on the diesel vehicles as such a carriage would effectively a heavy trailer when on diesel power. Still, no real reason why you couldn't have a lower top speed off-wires to compensate, particularly since with separate traction systems you can have different gearings for each.

Can't see that working I'm afraid, I know the current Voith transmissions have to be disconnected prior to a Tow, would that apply to the ZF box under a 172 aswell?