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Saltney/Wrexham redoubling,question to Minister

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a good off

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No it shouldn't, it should be capacity. As we have talked about before in the past you need some sort of IB solution between Gobowen and Shrewsbury.

The section between Gobowen and Shrewsbury has auto signals at Baschurch and capacity isn't too much of a problem. It is the section between Gobowen and Wrexham that IB signals are really needed to break up the absolute block section. I'd go for installing them at Ruabon.
 
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The Planner

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Baschurch is too close to Shrewsbury to be of any use, you are still talking 10 miles odd between there and Gobowen. We ignore it when planning. In the down you can't pass Baschurch until the first train is past Gobowen and v.v.

I'll have to dig out what was sketched out to be put in at work as it was 3 IBs over the whole Wrexham Shrewsbury section if I recall.
 

daikilo

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Baschurch is too close to Shrewsbury to be of any use, you are still talking 10 miles odd between there and Gobowen. We ignore it when planning. In the down you can't pass Baschurch until the first train is past Gobowen and v.v.

I'll have to dig out what was sketched out to be put in at work as it was 3 IBs over the whole Wrexham Shrewsbury section if I recall.

So do we agree that the whole problem to be addressed is not just the transformation of the single line to double track but also the usability of the additional track by relaxing constraints on the approaches?

Would relaxation of these constraints without doubling be a help?
 

jones_bangor

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So do we agree that the whole problem to be addressed is not just the transformation of the single line to double track but also the usability of the additional track by relaxing constraints on the approaches?

Would relaxation of these constraints without doubling be a help?

The whole line from Newport to Chester needs to be looked at.

In terms of increasing capacity between North Wales and Wrexham / South Wales, the reinstatement / construction of a link between the Borderlands line at Shotton and the North Wales Coast line would be very effective and would provide a linkage for eastern Clwyd at Buckley.
 
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a good off

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Baschurch is too close to Shrewsbury to be of any use, you are still talking 10 miles odd between there and Gobowen. We ignore it when planning. In the down you can't pass Baschurch until the first train is past Gobowen and v.v.

I'll have to dig out what was sketched out to be put in at work as it was 3 IBs over the whole Wrexham Shrewsbury section if I recall.

Some of the earlier schemes for that line were drastic with the singling of the Shrewsbury - Gobowen section almost happening. I agree The Planner, another set of signals between Baschurch and Gobowen would be good in an ideal world but they would be auto signals instead of IB as the signalling is TCB not AB. A good place for them I think would be in the former Haughton Sidings area.
 

merlodlliw

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The whole line from Newport to Chester needs to be looked at.

In terms of increasing capacity between North Wales and Wrexham / South Wales, the reinstatement / construction of a link between the Borderlands line at Shotton and the North Wales Coast line would be very effective and would provide a linkage for eastern Clwyd at Buckley.

It may well be effective, but no where now to put it, Also Chester is a hub for the majority of passengers, no North South trains will ever bypass Chester now,
 

Gareth Marston

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It may well be effective, but no where now to put it, Also Chester is a hub for the majority of passengers, no North South trains will ever bypass Chester now,

I lead a group of 11 on a Mid/North Wales circular on Saturday. The 1023 from Shrewsbury to Holyhead (0909 ex INTL) was standing room on leaving and lost time due to extended dwell, no chance of revenue collection easily 50 standing leaving Wrexham - vast majority got off at Chester as they always do. We were able to reassemble and get table seats before the passengers at Chester got on.
 

The Informer

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So do we agree that the whole problem to be addressed is not just the transformation of the single line to double track but also the usability of the additional track by relaxing constraints on the approaches?

Would relaxation of these constraints without doubling be a help?





NO! Because when something fails on the single section whether it be a train or infrastructure the knock on effect is catastrophic!!!
 

merlodlliw

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NO! Because when something fails on the single section whether it be a train or infrastructure the knock on effect is catastrophic!!!

Fully agree, ATWs biggest nightmare in North Wales is a failure on the single track between Wrexham & Saltney,it is classed as North Wales main pinch point.
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I lead a group of 11 on a Mid/North Wales circular on Saturday. The 1023 from Shrewsbury to Holyhead (0909 ex INTL) was standing room on leaving and lost time due to extended dwell, no chance of revenue collection easily 50 standing leaving Wrexham - vast majority got off at Chester as they always do. We were able to reassemble and get table seats before the passengers at Chester got on.

Yes the vast majority do get off at Chester,50 standing leaving Wrexham on a down 2 coach DMU is not unusual.

I am told there was chronic overcrowding on Sunday on the trains from Rhyl after the airshow, the local paper reports 100,000 lined Rhyl Prom for the event,I caught some of it at Talacre as the red arrows & wing walkers passed over.
Talacre light house is famous for Dulux dogs adverts,never saw one ,plenty of scousers though:)
 

TDK

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NO! Because when something fails on the single section whether it be a train or infrastructure the knock on effect is catastrophic!!!

If something fails anywhere it will always be a problem, that is not grounds to double a length of single track as the risk assessment will be low as not many failures happen on the short section of track and to be honest recovery of a failed train on a single track is an easier process on double as you can easily assist from either direction, the problems occur mainly when the signalling fails as you need a pilotman to pass over the single line, if this was the main problem resignalling would be a lot cheaper than redoubling.
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Fully agree, ATWs biggest nightmare in North Wales is a failure on the single track between Wrexham & Saltney,it is classed as North Wales main pinch point.

In 6 years working over the single line I can only remember one unit failure
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



You couldn't run a train any faster along that section. Capacity is the issue! And I agree with making an IB section between Gobowen and Wrexham! Linespeeds can only be increased when they rid of ALL the jointed track sections. Especially BR1 and Lockspike type baseplates, of which there is plenty between salop and chester!
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Just reading that again Planner but don't you mean between wrexham and gobowen? There is already an IB section between Salop and Gobowen approx half way at Stanwardine. There is 4 colour light signals in total in this area. 2 for each line, a distant followed by a controlled signal that are both operated from Crewe Jnc. CJ200 controls the UP and CJ201 the down, obviously once a train is passed either signal then another is sent straight in!

They are in fact controlled signals with axle counters however this is irrelevant. To get better capacity between Chester and Gobowen you will need at least 4 signal sections added. one between Chirk & Ruabon, one between Ruabon and Wrexham, One between Wrexham and Rossett and one between Rossett and Balderton, this will give you more capacity however I have not seen any documentation on planning these extra signal sections, once these are in place you may need one extra between Goboen and Baschurch to balance out the extra capacity and also another between Baschurch and Shrewsbury only this way will the whole line be balanced.

For example, a train leaves Shrewsbury for Gobowen, there is a 12 minute waiting time for the proceeding train to clear Baschurch, then there is another 12 minute pathing time from Baschurch to Gobowen, if you maintain linespeed even at 60 for LHCS when you approach Baschurch signal CJ201R will be at caution. The on arraival at Gobowen you have another wait of about 12 minutes for the train to clear Croess Newydd. The on arriving at Wrexham you have another 12 minutes for the train to clear the single line.

You will not obvioulsy wait 12 minutes as you have the travelling time to and from the signalling point but all this line needs is resiganalling to increase the capacity and doubling the line from Wrexham to Saltney
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am told there was chronic overcrowding on Sunday on the trains from Rhyl after the airshow, the local paper reports 100,000 lined Rhyl Prom for the event,I caught some of it at Talacre as the red arrows & wing walkers passed over.
Talacre light house is famous for Dulux dogs adverts,never saw one ,plenty of scousers though:)

Well that is abd planning on the part of ATW then as extra services should be provided when there are events like this, I remember Cosford airshow when there was just a basic sunday service provided, this is poor on the part of ATW as many folks are left behind missing the show.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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May I ask if there has been any recent discussions on station re-openings between Saltney and Wrexham or is there no demand for these? Is the existing bus service provision deemed acceptable to meet the current travel needs of the local populace?

Please excuse my ignorance on the current housing situation in this area.
 
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