On what routes, if any does on train catering make a profit?

[The exile]

Does catering really increase custom?

One of those difficult questions which even surveys are unlikely to get a true answer to. In terms of concrete reasons for choosing the train for a specific journey - then probably no, but in terms of putting the train in the “choice frame” then yes. Not for everyone, of course, and certainly only for specific journeys.

 

[TonyW590]

... and TfW must be an absolute basket case.

I wonder, what makes you think that?

A recent trip on the Cambrian from Wales: Trolley and attendant boarded rear of train at Machynlleth. He made one trip to the front with no announcement or customer interaction at all. Trolley was stowed when he got to the front, at which point he took four or five items off the trolley, sat down in the front bay, scoffed his collection and went to sleep. All this happened before we got to Talerddig. He and trolley got off at Shrewbury.

 

[Howardh]

Which is the longest scheduled journey that doesn't have catering? There are obviously routes like Cambridge - Brighton which aren't designed for end-to-end travel, but I'm thinking routes where passengers would take most of the journey?

 

[The exile]

Which is the longest scheduled journey that doesn't have catering? There are obviously routes like Cambridge - Brighton which aren't designed for end-to-end travel, but I'm thinking routes where passengers would take most of the journey?

Can’t find any suggestion that either Norwich - Liverpool or Portsmouth - Cardiff have catering.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Which is the longest scheduled journey that doesn't have catering?

No catering on all journeys, or no catering on any journey? If the former I'd say something like Glasgow or Edinburgh to Inverness. Scotrail catering is still more miss than hit, five years after Covid.

Can’t find any suggestion that either Norwich - Liverpool

(Some of) those services have catering between at least Manchester and Nottingham. I've seen, and bought things from, the trolley on EMR between Manchester and Liverpool too. I'm not sure if the trolley goes south of Nottingham.

 

[Howardh]

No catering on all journeys, or no catering on any journey?

Any single journey

 

[Tetchytyke]

Any single journey

I'd start with Edinburgh to Inverness then, only a couple of trains on that route have catering. Pretty shoddy for a 3.5 to 4 hour journey.

 

[dk1]

I wonder, what makes you think that?

A recent trip on the Cambrian from Wales: Trolley and attendant boarded rear of train at Machynlleth. He made one trip to the front with no announcement or customer interaction at all. Trolley was stowed when he got to the front, at which point he took four or five items off the trolley, sat down in the front bay, scoffed his collection and went to sleep. All this happened before we got to Talerddig. He and trolley got off at Shrewbury.

He sounds like an asset to the company

 

[cats_five]

Which is the longest scheduled journey that doesn't have catering? There are obviously routes like Cambridge - Brighton which aren't designed for end-to-end travel, but I'm thinking routes where passengers would take most of the journey?

XC Edinburgh to Penzance on a bad day

 

[Howardh]

XC Edinburgh to Penzance on a bad day

Could be sold as the "Weight Watcher's Special"?! I take it they normally have catering? Although I doubt few actually do the whole journey - if I were on and was on an advance ticket, and catering wasn't available even though advertised, I'd ask to get off on the way (break of journey) to stock up and get back onto the following service, and if not allowed I wouldn't be a happy traveller.

 

[800Travel]

Could be sold as the "Weight Watcher's Special"?! I take it they normally have catering? Although I doubt few actually do the whole journey - if I were on and was on an advance ticket, and catering wasn't available even though advertised, I'd ask to get off on the way (break of journey) to stock up and get back onto the following service, and if not allowed I wouldn't be a happy traveller.

There is only one Edinburgh to Penzance service daily, so that wouldn't really work unfortunately. I believe I've seen comments online in relation to the Aberzance service, dearly departed, which mentioned people dashing off the train in longer station stops to grab stuff from cafes on platforms.

 

[Howardh]

There is only one Edinburgh to Penzance service daily, so that wouldn't really work unfortunately. I believe I've seen comments online in relation to the Aberzance service, dearly departed, which mentioned people dashing off the train in longer station stops to grab stuff from cafes on platforms.

Of course these days there's the chance to order on-line and have it delivered to a forthcoming stop - if the delivery service is allowed on the platform? No idea if that's been done, how popular it is, and what happens if it goes wrong?!

I wonder thought to keep it in-house whether a station, eg Milton Keynes, with a cafe on the platform it's possible via an app to order, pay and they bring it to the train as it stands on the platform? All they need is your carriage no.? If it's not been done it may be on a nationalised railways "to do" list!!

 

[Sleepy]

No catering on all journeys, or no catering on any journey? If the former I'd say something like Glasgow or Edinburgh to Inverness. Scotrail catering is still more miss than hit, five years after Covid.

(Some of) those services have catering between at least Manchester and Nottingham. I've seen, and bought things from, the trolley on EMR between Manchester and Liverpool too. I'm not sure if the trolley goes south of Nottingham.

They are sometimes seen between Nottingham and Peterborough.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Depends what you mean by increase custom. I have certainly bought first class tickets on TfW and TPE (west coast) in recent times because of the catering offer. I would have travelled anyway, but in standard, if there was no such offer.

Yes, I did that on my last return from Euston to Oxenholme partly for the catering but mainly somewhere to sit at EUS.

 

[cats_five]

Could be sold as the "Weight Watcher's Special"?! I take it they normally have catering? Although I doubt few actually do the whole journey - if I were on and was on an advance ticket, and catering wasn't available even though advertised, I'd ask to get off on the way (break of journey) to stock up and get back onto the following service, and if not allowed I wouldn't be a happy traveller.

LOL at WWS!
They normally have a buffet car. I hesitate to call it catering, more a low-end retail operation.

I wanted to go right to Penzance, that was when the signalling was being rewired at Gloucester. Over 2 hours late at Penzance, got my entire fare down back. And I took sandwiches to cover the whole trip. Taking a break to get on the following train would have resulted in a very late arrival at Penzance.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Of course these days there's the chance to order on-line and have it delivered to a forthcoming stop - if the delivery service is allowed on the platform? No idea if that's been done, how popular it is, and what happens if it goes wrong?!

It has been done, but seems to be unusual enough to be news :

Cafe delivers bacon rolls to group onboard Mallaig to Glasgow train

An award-winning roadside eatery made a special delivery of breakfast rolls to a hungry group - onboard on a ScotRail train.

www.heraldscotland.com

"Breakfast rolls galore, successfully delivered for a group on board who had ordered online and organised this with us beforehand. I think the lovely ScotRail staff on board were a little envious when they smelled the bacon wafting past! (Sorry ladies).

"We are just entering our more steady winter season which lasts from end October to the of end March. Its this time of the year as well as it being a group order that made this feasible, and we were delighted to oblige.

 

[Mark J]

Other than settling for vending machines - the train company should directly employ the staff, manage them well to ensure high coverage and other than booze, resist the temptation to sell luxury junk - just cheapo Kenco(ish) coffee for £1. Those instant £1 coffees will sell out and make far more profit than seen on one current (failed) intercity company, not unknown to sell just three cups of not "Starbucks" at £3.40 a tepid cup - on a busy 250 seat five-car train.

I thought Crosscountry now proudly serve tepid Costa Coffee.

 

[philthetube]

Other than settling for vending machines - the train company should directly employ the staff, manage them well to ensure high coverage and other than booze, resist the temptation to sell luxury junk - just cheapo Kenco(ish) coffee for £1. Those instant £1 coffees will sell out and make far more profit than seen on one current (failed) intercity company, not unknown to sell just three cups of not "Starbucks" at £3.40 a tepid cup - on a busy 250 seat five-car train.

£1 would be far too cheap, you probably have to sell 30 an hour to break even by the time all the incidental costs of employing someone is taken into account, uniforms holiday and sickness cover, national insurance etc, is suspect charging £2.50 would make very little difference to volumes.

 

[185]

The coffee is sort of a loss leader, even though it's still profit. Coffee, plus cakes, plus sandwich... and so on. But surprisingly, 110-120 hot drinks a day was almost allowing the trolley to break even on its own, before the other item which tripled the income.

Net cost of the cup was about 11p, leaving 90p to pay the bills.

 

[Falcon1200]

I wonder thought to keep it in-house whether a station, eg Milton Keynes, with a cafe on the platform it's possible via an app to order, pay and they bring it to the train as it stands on the platform?

Interesting idea, but how long a dwell time would it require; Passengers getting on and off the train with others standing in the doorway waiting their order - And if more than one order, possibly at opposite ends of the train!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Of course these days there's the chance to order on-line and have it delivered to a forthcoming stop - if the delivery service is allowed on the platform? No idea if that's been done, how popular it is, and what happens if it goes wrong?!

It’s easy enough to do in isolation. There are countless examples of crew having takeaways delivered to trains. The issue is doing it at scale.

 

[occone]

It has been done, but seems to be unusual enough to be news :

Cafe delivers bacon rolls to group onboard Mallaig to Glasgow train

An award-winning roadside eatery made a special delivery of breakfast rolls to a hungry group - onboard on a ScotRail train.

www.heraldscotland.com

I think the Night Riviera does similar - I remember writing my order down after boarding, the slip was collected and I believe the breakfasts are loaded on at Exeter and then served up at the time you chose.

I'd also have to guess that Avanti makes a killing from catering - long journeys and their unreasonably tasty cheeseburgers really hit the spot.

 

[liamf656]

Can’t find any suggestion that either Norwich - Liverpool or Portsmouth - Cardiff have catering.

EMR have Rail Gourmet trolleys between Liverpool and Grantham, sometimes to Norwich if staffing allows

 

[paulcleaver]

I used to enjoy the EMT Saturday morning First Class Breakfast services down to London. I always thought that they were good value for money paying an additional amount to standard class in return for a really nice breakfast and a nice start to the weekend.

I wonder if they made a profit because they always seem popular when I traveled?

 

[David Bullock]

Could be sold as the "Weight Watcher's Special"?! I take it they normally have catering? Although I doubt few actually do the whole journey - if I were on and was on an advance ticket, and catering wasn't available even though advertised, I'd ask to get off on the way (break of journey) to stock up and get back onto the following service, and if not allowed I wouldn't be a happy traveller.

I once travelled from Bodmin parkway to Leeds, diverted via Newport (7h30 in total) in first class. I got a very cheap Seatfrog upgrade.

I was in the rear set so no trolley for the whole journey. The front set had a trolley from Plymouth the Exeter (about an hour in all).

Due to the diversion we had a 15 minute wait and reversal at Newport. I jumped off to go the the vending machine (it was Sunday evening so no cafes open) but the vending machine was broken.

The first class galley on the train was actually stocked with drinks and snacks - and a member of staff was sat in it for a large part of the journey. By Birmingham I was flagging so asked if I could have a drink, he asked to see my ticket and then told me he could only give me a 330ml bottle of water. I wasn’t feeling great by the time I got to Leeds.



I mentioned it on a different thread but I think consistency is so important to whether catering turns a profit or not. If people can rely on it and know it’s good, they’ll use it. If there’s a 50% chance the trolley won’t turn up then people will just buy beforehand.

 

[WesternLancer]

I used to enjoy the EMT Saturday morning First Class Breakfast services down to London. I always thought that they were good value for money paying an additional amount to standard class in return for a really nice breakfast and a nice start to the weekend.

I wonder if they made a profit because they always seem popular when I traveled?

Yes it was excellent value. I regularly selected the train concerned and happily paid the weekend first upgrade or before that the upgrade and cost of the meal or booked first advance.

Usually very full on an HST.

 

[physics34]

Id love catering to reappear on longer distance services even if it makes a loss* (within reason!). Its a service not a business. Sadly its not looked at that way. The catering on swiss and german railway must make a small loss.. but its seen as a great bonus to have .. and offers.. choice!

 

[Rescars]

It’s easy enough to do in isolation. There are countless examples of crew having takeaways delivered to trains. The issue is doing it at scale.

Well something similar was possible a long time ago - before restaurant cars were introduced. Let's reinvent the luncheon basket!

 

[Tester]

Well something similar was possible a time ago - before restaurant cars were introduced. Let's reinvent the luncheon basket!

Anyone remember Tray Meals?

 

[dk1]

Anyone remember Tray Meals?

Cuisine 2000?