Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[InTheEastMids]

All advice gratefully accepted

As has been noted, the specific information about which unit will work which diagram typically only becomes known in the small hours of the morning, so you probably would need to buy your ticket on the day.

Easiest ways are either to look at the service you might want to catch on RTT - By morning you'll be able to see what's running the diagram
Alternatively you can look at Rail Record (link below), search for specifc units and find out which services they are diagrammed to.
The second approach is quite easy at the moment because there are only two trains carrying passengers - 006 and 010, so you can quickly see what each of them is supposed to be doing.

Train Allocations Lookup | Rail Record

Search UK Train Schedules By TOPS Number, Show Loco Allocations and Unit History | Train Tracker | Rail Record

live.rail-record.co.uk

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[ivorytoast28]

On one of these new trains for the 21:32 from St Pancras and happy there is at least 1 toilet working

Though it is highly disappointing that capacity wise they seem near identical to the trains they're replacing, it's a completely full 5 car even this late in the evening people are standing as the capacity isn't there. Again with 1.75 carriages dedicated to first class and just 3 and a bit to standard class, I still can't understand how this is acceptable for an InterCity service and can only imagine how overcrowded they will continue to be during the day - as a passenger the number 1 question has to be why can't the Midland mainline get trains with a reasonable length for the InterCity service they cover?

 

[Bald Rick]

Though it is highly disappointing that capacity wise they seem near identical to the trains they're replacing, it's a completely full 5 car even this late in the evening people are standing as the capacity isn't there.

Accepting this is a long thread and you may not have reas the many previous comments about capacity. The 5 car Class 810 has about a third more standard class seats than the 5 car Class 222s they replace, and when the fleet is fully deployed about half the services will be 10car, offering more than 2.5x the number of seats on a 5 car 222.

 

[Freemo]

Based on the figures in post #4980, if half the 810s are doubled it'll be an uplift on the era when you had the HSTs plus 7-10 car 222s running around (on Sundays in particular having fewer but longer trains definitely seemed more humane).

In the meantime it's hard to imagine capacity on the West Coast line being so severely constrained for what, seven years? without an uprising of some sort. But hey there's been a 100% increase in 810s in service in a matter of days, onwards and upwards!

 

[duffield]

On one of these new trains for the 21:32 from St Pancras and happy there is at least 1 toilet working

Though it is highly disappointing that capacity wise they seem near identical to the trains they're replacing, it's a completely full 5 car even this late in the evening people are standing as the capacity isn't there. Again with 1.75 carriages dedicated to first class and just 3 and a bit to standard class, I still can't understand how this is acceptable for an InterCity service and can only imagine how overcrowded they will continue to be during the day - as a passenger the number 1 question has to be why can't the Midland mainline get trains with a reasonable length for the InterCity service they cover?

To add some more very specific info about seat numbers, most of the class 222 5 coach units have 190 standard seats plus 10 tip-up seats in the vestibules. The class 810s have 254 standard seats in a 5 coach unit. So there would have been a lot more people standing if you'd been on a 5 coach 222! The space is used much more efficiently, e.g. the vestibules are much smaller.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Well never mind capacity, We've just been termined at Leicester

The reason "The driver is stuck in the cab"

 

[Ben Anslow]

Well never mind capacity, We've just been termined at Leicester

The reason "The driver is stuck in the cab"

Mental how things are in 2025 supposed to be in service in 2022 my father said to me a while back how bad things are now not helped by increasingly computerised everything has become but I did some research class 810s 3 years late. Look at example class 185s how much quicker they were rolled into operation

 

[Freemo]

I was stuck during my commute for half an hour at Barnsley with the lights off on a 195 two weeks after their introduction. The unit switched itself off and the driver couldn't work out how to get it back on and had to be talked through it by control (I was sat by the cab door and heard quite a bit of it). They're fine now.

Better than the gangway on a 150 just blowing open one morning at line speed!

 

[ivorytoast28]

So now we're stranded at Leicester for at least an hour

The staff were just as perplexed as anyone else - the driver was saying "I'm locked out the cab and wouldn't be able to get back in on turn around, once we end the service we need to switch ends and I won't be able to get back" so it sounds like the rear cab was stuck locked

Both the driver and train manager were very friendly and seemed just as bemused as I was at how this was an issue with a brand knew train and the train manager was saying the cab used to be a push but was now a lever which had broken

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2025 ==

It looks like the 23:37 (after an hour at Leicester) is also one of these new trains, so not hopeful of making it home tonight

As if it wasn't bad enough someone is unveiling a sign for these new trains mocking us across the platform at the same time

 

[ThatBloke]

810s have two only powered bogies per unit. I'm not surprised if they're having adhesion issues accelerating at low speeds

According to the info on Wiki,
When on 25KV power cars 2 and 4 with traction motors x4 in each provide traction.
On diesel engines, upto 4 cars: 1,2,4&5 can provide traction.

 

[liamf656]

I was stuck during my commute for half an hour at Barnsley with the lights off on a 195 two weeks after their introduction. The unit switched itself off and the driver couldn't work out how to get it back on and had to be talked through it by control (I was sat by the cab door and heard quite a bit of it). They're fine now.

Better than the gangway on a 150 just blowing open one morning at line speed!

I also had a 195 on the first day in service, we stopped at Preston for 20 minutes for a toilet stop because there weren't any working on the train. I'm still hopeful these teething issues on the 810s will be ironed out, especially once everyone is more used to them

 

[Alpaca]

So now we're stranded at Leicester for at least an hour

The staff were just as perplexed as anyone else - the driver was saying "I'm locked out the cab and wouldn't be able to get back in on turn around, once we end the service we need to switch ends and I won't be able to get back" so it sounds like the rear cab was stuck locked

Both the driver and train manager were very friendly and seemed just as bemused as I was at how this was an issue with a brand knew train and the train manager was saying the cab used to be a push but was now a lever which had broken

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Dec 2025 ==

It looks like the 23:37 (after an hour at Leicester) is also one of these new trains, so not hopeful of making it home tonight

As if it wasn't bad enough someone is unveiling a sign for these new trains mocking us across the platform at the same time

So he was in the north facing cab, and realised he couldn't get in the other end on arriving at Sheffield? Or he’d got out of his end and couldn’t get back in?

 

[liamf656]

(deleted)

 

[Merle Haggard]

To add some more very specific info about seat numbers, most of the class 222 5 coach units have 190 standard seats plus 10 tip-up seats in the vestibules. The class 810s have 254 standard seats in a 5 coach unit. So there would have been a lot more people standing if you'd been on a 5 coach 222! The space is used much more efficiently, e.g. the vestibules are much smaller.

The flaw in that argument is that the 810s are working 7 car 222 diagrams (2 x 7 cars having gone off-lease)

As an aside, first in the 13.02 St Pancras - Sheffield (810 vice 7 car) was pretty much full all the way.

 

[D365]

According to the info on Wiki,
When on 25KV power cars 2 and 4 with traction motors x4 in each provide traction.
On diesel engines, upto 4 cars: 1,2,4&5 can provide traction.

Using the same four traction motors on the MS & MC vehicles.

 

[eastwestdivide]

006 and 010 both out today according to realtimetrains, on the diagrams memtioned earlier

 

[43096]

According to the info on Wiki,
When on 25KV power cars 2 and 4 with traction motors x4 in each provide traction.
On diesel engines, upto 4 cars: 1,2,4&5 can provide traction.

You are confusing traction motors and diesel engines. The same traction motors are used regardless of power source. On diesel, the engines in cars 1,2,4,5 provide power to the traction motors.

 

[800001]

006 and 010 both out today according to realtimetrains, on the diagrams memtioned earlier

Cab door must be fixed then.

 

[jontyasaurus]

The flaw in that argument is that the 810s are working 7 car 222 diagrams (2 x 7 cars having gone off-lease)

As an aside, first in the 13.02 St Pancras - Sheffield (810 vice 7 car) was pretty much full all the way.

You'd think so, but I believe a 7-car 222 has 232 standard seats (and a few flip-ups), so a 5-car 810 still handily beats those!

I'm on the 7:13 from Chesterfield to London tomorrow, it's currently booked as an 810 so hoping for my first full journey. Might spring for the first class upgrade.

 

[dosxuk]

Might spring for the first class upgrade.

There's less than half of the first class provision compared to the 222 it's replaced, so I wouldn't be overly confident of the space available.

 

[liamf656]

There's less than half of the first class provision compared to the 222 it's replaced, so I wouldn't be overly confident of the space available.

But on a 7 car 222 you'll more often than not find that a whole first class coach is empty

 

[222001]

But on a 7 car 222 you'll more often than not find that a whole first class coach is empty

I also believe the plan in the end is to run the old 7 car diagrams as double 810s?

 

[QSK19]

On the note of doubled up units, how is progress on this going? Last I heard (though I stand corrected) was that the units weren’t talking to each other properly and restricted to diesel-only running along the MML.

 

[bunnahabhain]

But on a 7 car 222 you'll more often than not find that a whole first class coach is empty

Sounds perfect to me!

 

[mountainman]

Using the same four traction motors on the MS & MC vehicles.

 

[AndrewJM70]

I also believe the plan in the end is to run the old 7 car diagrams as double 810s?

I don't know how many sets are running at any one time but assuming 2:10 hours to Sheffield and 30 minutes turns and 1:40 hours to Nottingham with 30 minute turns, this would require 6 or so sets for an hourly Sheffield service and 5 or so for a Nottingham so around 22 sets would be my guess. This leaves around 11 for spares and doubling up.

 

[Snow1964]

According to the info on Wiki,
When on 25KV power cars 2 and 4 with traction motors x4 in each provide traction.
On diesel engines, upto 4 cars: 1,2,4&5 can provide traction.

It's a bit confused, the traction motors are in 2 and 4

Diesel engine and generators (4 of them) can supply electricity to motors in 2 and 4, there are no traction motors in 1 & 5 (or 3)

For completeness when using 25kv, the electricity is fed through transformer in car 3, to motors in 2 & 4

 

[Freemo]

I don't know how many sets are running at any one time but assuming 2:10 hours to Sheffield and 30 minutes turns and 1:40 hours to Nottingham with 30 minute turns, this would require 6 or so sets for an hourly Sheffield service and 5 or so for a Nottingham so around 22 sets would be my guess. This leaves around 11 for spares and doubling up.

Upthread it says there are presently 24 diagrams. There are meant to be 33 new units so back of an envelope gives me 7 doubled-up diagrams if you allow for a couple of spares. I think that's roughly equivalent to what was being covered by 7 and 10 car 222 until recently, although with a substantial addition of seats on those.

 

[222001]

Upthread it says there are presently 24 diagrams. There are meant to be 33 new units so back of an envelope gives me 7 doubled-up diagrams if you allow for a couple of spares. I think that's roughly equivalent to what was being covered by 7 and 10 car 222 until recently, although with a substantial addition of seats on those.

Indeed, and those 24 diagrams already include 5x 10 car sets off STP in the evening. 1602/1732/1735/1835/1902.

 

[Ben Anslow]

I also had a 195 on the first day in service, we stopped at Preston for 20 minutes for a toilet stop because there weren't any working on the train. I'm still hopeful these teething issues on the 810s will be ironed out, especially once everyone is more used to them

195117 I remember it well was on it for a short hop from where I live to Carnforth rampacked toilets broken digital screens weren’t working delays because of the doors