Stadler preffered bidder for new Enterprise

[dorsetdesiro]

I imagine the new Enterprise fleet likely would closely resemble GA's 745s though with higher spec Eurostar-like interiors

 

[89-763-733]

The court has rejected CAF's case on the grounds it would cause the loss of 165 million euros of EU funding

 

[zwk500]

The court has rejected CAF's case on the grounds it would cause the loss of 165 million euros of EU funding

Is there a link to a report?
Edit: https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland...-improvements-contract-is-lifted-1835294.html

 

[csd]

CAF's case hasn't been rejected - the court has simply lifted the suspension of the contract to allow it to be signed before the end of the month. Stadler indicated that they wouldn't be able to deliver trains to meet the EU funding deadline of 31.12.2029 unless the contract was signed by 30.11.2025. IE/NIR will now be allowed to sign the contract but CAF's case will still be heard, so there may yet be trouble down the line.

/csd

 

[Austriantrain]

CAF's case hasn't been rejected - the court has simply lifted the suspension of the contract to allow it to be signed before the end of the month. Stadler indicated that they wouldn't be able to deliver trains to meet the EU funding deadline of 31.12.2029 unless the contract was signed by 30.11.2025. IE/NIR will now be allowed to sign the contract but CAF's case will still be heard, so there may yet be trouble down the line.

/csd

If the contract is signed, it is signed. Very Hard to undo it although CAF might win damages.

 

[GoneSouth]

The court has rejected CAF's case on the grounds it would cause the loss of 165 million euros of EU funding

If the contract is signed, it is signed. Very Hard to undo it although CAF might win damages.

€165 million of damages

 

[zwk500]

€165 million of damages

The damages would likely be higher than that, as the total contract value is claimed to be €650m.

However, if CAF were found to not have a case, then Stadler (and the other various parties to the contract) could well have a case for damages against Stadler through loss of the opportunity for the contract:

In his decision, Mr Justice Twomey said that lifting the suspension leads to the least risk of injustice to the parties because of the risk that the contract will be extinguished and that the EU Funding of €165 million for the Dublin-Belfast rail line will be lost if the suspension is continued.

This was a unique factor as the continuation of the suspension is likely to lead to the extinguishment of the contract with Stadler and not simply a delay in its execution and with the possibility that it might be executed with CAF, he said.

The court also noted that CAF claimed damages wasn't enough, but weren't willing to offer a guarantee against anybody else's damages:

Itr should also be noted that CAF’s claim, that damages are an inadequate remedy for it - if it wins at trial - would carry more weight if it had given an undertaking to pay damages itself, which would ensure that damages would be an adequate remedy for IR/NI Rail if they win, he said.

(quotes from link in post 33)

 

[Austriantrain]

The damages would likely be higher than that, as the total contract value is claimed to be €650m.

Well, the damages will be limited by the possible Profit (and the cost of the bid and proceedings), not the total contract value.

 

[43096]

Well, the damages will be limited by the possible Profit (and the cost of the bid and proceedings), not the total contract value.

Which is probably a better outcome financially for CAF, given they would probably deliver dross late and be subject to contractual penalties.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Stadler have won the tender. As expected, the design is based on the FLIRT UK.

I imagine the new Enterprise fleet likely would closely resemble GA's 745s though with higher spec Eurostar-like interiors

Electro-diesel Stadler Flirt trains selected to renew Dublin – Belfast Enterprise fleet

EUROPE: Ireland’s national railway Iarnród Éireann and North Ireland’s Translink have jointly selected Stadler Flirt trainsets to replace locomotive-hauled rolling stock on the cross-border Dublin – Belfast Enterprise service. EUROPE: Ireland’s national railway Iarnród Éireann and North...

www.railwaygazette.com

Ireland’s national railway Iarnród Éireann and North Ireland’s Translink have jointly selected Stadler from the three bidders for a contract to supply trainsets to replace locomotive-hauled rolling stock on the cross-border Dublin – Belfast Enterprise service.

Stadler had been informed that it was the preferred bidder in mid-September, but the award process was delayed when rival bidder CAF launched a legal challenge during the standstill period prior. The injunction sought by CAF was lifted at the High Court in Dublin on November 26, with the court noting the time-critical importance of securing EU funding contributions and also accepting that there is an urgent need to address emissions and improve accessibility.

Electro-diesel Flirt trainsets​

The order being placed through a joint venture of Iarnród Éireann and Northern Ireland Railways covers the supply of eight trainsets as well as simulators, plus separate 15-year service and support maintenance agreement which can be extended by a further 15 years.

The trainsets wil be based on Stadler’s proven Flirt platform. They will be capable of operating on the 1·5 kV DC electrification from Dublin, and in diesel mode elsewhere. Onboard traction batteries will be capable of powering the trains for short distances. These are expected to be used around Belfast’s Grand Central station and to York Road depot, which will be the principal maintenance facility for the fleet.

Two diesel engines will be installed in the driving vehicle at one end of a unit, creating a power car and avoiding the use of underfloor engines. Whilst both engines will normally provide power, it is expected that a single engine will be capable of delivering sufficient traction to maintain performance in the event of any failures.

There will be eight motors powering four bogies, two under intermediate vehicles and two located under the other non-articulated driving vehicle.

The design of the power car will allows for the future replacement of the diesel engines and fuel tank with pantographs and a transformer in the event of the Northern Irish network being electrified at 25 kV 50 Hz.

Passenger facilities​

While some design elements are still to be formalised, it is expected that eight of the passenger vehicles will be formed as articulated pairs.

Passenger access will be via a single, wide doorway and vestibule located at the mid-point of each vehicle, where a movable step will extend to the platform to allow level boarding. Every carriage will feature a low floor area.


The specification for the trains specifically refers to a high level of seat comfort. There will be a mix of bay and unidirectional seating, with six wheelchair spaces in PRM areas located away from the toilets to give a more inclusive experience.


The trains will be fitted with eight toilets, two in first class, five in standard and one for catering and onboard staff use; two will be PRM-TSI compliant. The trains will also have six reservable bike spaces.


Catering provision will build on that provided on the current locomotive-hauled trains, with an at-seat service of hot meals in first class and a bar-bistro and trolley service provided for standard class passengers.

The cabs will be based on an existing Flirt design with a centrally located driving position and a seat for a second person. The trains will have ETCS and the UK’s TPWS safety systems. They will be capable of selective door opening, and the driver will be supported by 22 external CCTV cameras.

Delivery timescale​

Delivery of the first sets for testing is expected to be in 2028 with entry into service in 2030, enabling the withdrawal of the existing Class 201 locomotives and De Dietrich coaches.

 

[stadler]

Stadler have won the tender. As expected, the design is based on the FLIRT UK.

Electro-diesel Stadler Flirt trains selected to renew Dublin – Belfast Enterprise fleet

EUROPE: Ireland’s national railway Iarnród Éireann and North Ireland’s Translink have jointly selected Stadler Flirt trainsets to replace locomotive-hauled rolling stock on the cross-border Dublin – Belfast Enterprise service. EUROPE: Ireland’s national railway Iarnród Éireann and North...

www.railwaygazette.com

That design looks so strange with the different front. The side of the train looks identical to our 231/745/755/756 trains. But yet the front of the train is a completely new design and has more similarity to other manufacturers models. I wonder why they went for a different front design.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That design looks so strange with the different front. The side of the train looks identical to our 231/745/755/756 trains. But yet the front of the train is a completely new design and has more similarity to other manufacturers. I wonder why they went for a different front design.

The front looks similar to the FLIRT UK, just with some minor updates and a fairing over the coupler, which I guess makes sense if there is no intention to work these in multiple in normal operation?

Perhaps more interesting is that there's no power pod, rather one of the end vehicles is a power car.

 

[AdamWW]

The front looks similar to the FLIRT UK, just with some minor updates and a fairing over the coupler, which I guess makes sense if there is no intention to work these in multiple in normal operation?

Perhaps more interesting is that there's no power pod, rather one of the end vehicles is a power car.

That is interesting.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/trac...dublin-belfast-enterprise-fleet/70100.article says

The design of the power car will allow for the future replacement of the diesel engines and fuel tank with pantographs and a transformer in the event of the Northern Irish network being electrified at 25 kV 50 Hz.

I thought that was one of the advantages of the power pack - if you convert to full electric you can take it away.
I wonder if the engine compartment has full windows so it can be converted to seating if they take it out.

 

[craigybagel]

The front looks similar to the FLIRT UK, just with some minor updates and a fairing over the coupler, which I guess makes sense if there is no intention to work these in multiple in normal operation?

Perhaps more interesting is that there's no power pod, rather one of the end vehicles is a power car.

Judging by the length of the trains in the drawings, it won't be possible to run them in multiple. They look to be at least 10 cars long - which would also tie in with the 8 toilets mentioned. Even with reduced length cars typical on Stadler sets, that's going to be about the limit of what will fit into Dublin and Belfast.

I also find the bit about the power pod interesting. Contrary to the drawings (and indeed current practice with the existing sets), I assume the trains will normally run the other way around, with the powerpack at the Dublin end. That way, it'll be under the shed but switched off at Connolly (assuming they either change the timetable to use platform 4, or electrify platform 2), and in the open in Belfast where it will need to be powered up, at least on arrival. Unless there's enough power in the batteries to get it in and out of Belfast, as well as keep everything running during the turn around.

I'm also curious as to what top speed they've gone for. With only 4 powered bogies I'm assuming only 100mph, but even that should deliver an improvement over what can be achieved now.

What is obvious though is that Stadler have find what they're best known for; come up with a bespoke product for a bespoke need. Very exciting times.

 

[popeter45]

makes sence as roughly the same size as 2-3 power pods that you get when you couple up normal FLIRT UK units
also this enables Longer units like this for UK operators like TfW or Scotrail who want Long Intercity trains but dont need 80X speeds

 

[ac6000cw]

Two diesel engines will be installed in the driving vehicle at one end of a unit, creating a power car and avoiding the use of underfloor engines. Whilst both engines will normally provide power, it is expected that a single engine will be capable of delivering sufficient traction to maintain performance in the event of any failures.

There will be eight motors powering four bogies, two under intermediate vehicles and two located under the other non-articulated driving vehicle.

While some design elements are still to be formalised, it is expected that eight of the passenger vehicles will be formed as articulated pairs.

I think that all implies a 10-car train (9 passenger cars plus 1 diesel power car) with some quite serious diesel power installed, if it can maintain schedules with only one of the two engines working.

(Speculation) A pair of Cummins QSK50 engines, as used singly in the cl. 99, could provide a total of 3.6MW/4800hp.

 

[AdamWW]

I also find the bit about the power pod interesting. Contrary to the drawings (and indeed current practice with the existing sets), I assume the trains will normally run the other way around, with the powerpack at the Dublin end. That way, it'll be under the shed but switched off at Connolly (assuming they either change the timetable to use platform 4, or electrify platform 2), and in the open in Belfast where it will need to be powered up, at least on arrival. Unless there's enough power in the batteries to get it in and out of Belfast, as well as keep everything running during the turn around.

The link I gave above says:

Onboard traction batteries will be capable of powering the trains for short distances. These are expected to be used around Belfast’s Grand Central station and to York Road depot, which will be the principal maintenance facility for the fleet.

I think that all implies a 10-car train (9 passenger cars plus 1 diesel power car) with some quite serious diesel power installed, if it can maintain schedules with only one of the two engines working.

Presumably somewhat larger than the ones in the power packs in UK FLIRTS, and also presumably why they aren't in a power pack.

 

[JonasB]

Has anyone seen an official press release about the new trains?

 

[stadler]

Has anyone seen an official press release about the new trains?

Nothing yet but this is where the official press release would be published:

Media | Stadler

Stay updated with the latest news about our company. Visit our Media page for official announcements and contact information for media inquiries.

www.stadlerrail.com

Media releases | Stadler

Explore our latest press releases to stay informed about our company's recent announcements, product launches, and corporate updates.

www.stadlerrail.com

I am guessing that an official press release will get issued some time this week.

 

[Steddenm]

Here are a couple of images of the new trains from a Google search:



Images show a computer designed image of the new Stadler FLIRT trains for the Enterprise services in Ireland and Northern Ireland. Both show the powercar and coaches in Enterprise livery. The powercar seems to have some seating behind the engine bays.

 

[Neilo09]

So it’s basically a DEMU ? Interesting and looking forward to seeing more technical detail.

 

[craigybagel]

Here are a couple of images of the new trains from a Google search:

View attachment 193517
View attachment 193518
Images show a computer designed image of the new Stadler FLIRT trains for the Enterprise services in Ireland and Northern Ireland. Both show the powercar and coaches in Enterprise livery. The powercar seems to have some seating behind the engine bays.

I'm not sure that is a seating area - there doesn't appear to be any doors in that carriage.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So it’s basically a DEMU ? Interesting and looking forward to seeing more technical detail.

Is it not a bimode? DC and diesel?

 

[craigybagel]

makes sence as roughly the same size as 2-3 power pods that you get when you couple up normal FLIRT UK units
also this enables Longer units like this for UK operators like TfW or Scotrail who want Long Intercity trains but dont need 80X speeds

It does seem like a nice idea for TfW and Scotrail - as good of a bi-mode as a 755, but with more capacity. However, it would appear that as designed these units can be used for either Diesel or 25KV AC - not both. Fine for Ireland, but an issue in the UK. The question would be if the space used for the 1500V DC equipment on the Irish sets could be used for AC equipment in the UK?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Dec 2025 ==

Is it not a bimode? DC and diesel?

I assume they were comparing it to the layout of the old "Thumper" DEMUs as formerly seen in Britain and also Northern Ireland, with a big engine and small passenger compartment in the front coach, although as I said above it looks to me like the entirety of that coach will be mechanical and not for public use.

But yes, as delivered these will be DC, Diesel and battery Tri-mode (edited in response to @Trainbike46 comment below) with the ability to swap the diesel for AC if (and hopefully when) necessary in the future.

 

[Trainbike46]

Is it not a bimode? DC and diesel?

It's a trimide actually:
- 1.5 kV DC OHLE
- diesel
- battery

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Dec 2025 ==

It does seem like a nice idea for TfW and Scotrail - as good of a bi-mode as a 755, but with more capacity. However, it would appear that as designed these units can be used for either Diesel or 25KV AC - not both. Fine for Ireland, but an issue in the UK. The question would be if the space used for the 1500V DC equipment on the Irish sets could be used for AC equipment in the UK?

What makes you say this design is either diesel or 25kV AC OHLE?

 

[craigybagel]

What makes you say this design is either diesel or 25kV AC OHLE?

This quote:

The design of the power car will allows for the future replacement of the diesel engines and fuel tank with pantographs and a transformer in the event of the Northern Irish network being electrified at 25 kV 50 Hz.

To me it implies it's an either or situation, and that they can't just add in AC capability whilst maintaining the ability to run on diesel as well.

 

[Trainbike46]

This quote:

To me it implies it's an either or situation, and that they can't just add in AC capability whilst maintaining the ability to run on diesel as well.

Thank you. You could very well be right, though it is also possible that it's written that way because the author assumed that 25kV AC OHLE being installed around Belfast. Your reading does seem more likely, though I can't imagine 25kV kit would need more space than taken by one of the two engines, so it may be possible to have both if you're willing to accept only a single engine.

Another point I noted in the article, it appears they're saying all maintenance will take place at York Road, so that would mean Translink taking on the full maintenance responsibilities, unlike now, where one maintains the locomotives and the other the carriages.

 

[craigybagel]

Thank you. You could very well be right, though it is also possible that it's written that way because the author assumed that 25kV AC OHLE being installed around Belfast. Your reading does seem more likely, though I can't imagine 25kV kit would need more space than taken by one of the two engines, so it may be possible to have both if you're willing to accept only a single engine.

There might well be some stuff in there that is open to interpretation alright. I'm not entirely convinced that it will be fully capable of running to time on only one engine out of two - if there's the case, why bother with two? Hopefully the official release from Stadler/IR/NIR will reveal all.

Another point I noted in the article, it appears they're saying all maintenance will take place at York Road, so that would mean Translink taking on the full maintenance responsibilities, unlike now, where one maintains the locomotives and the other the carriages.

That seems sensible to me. With only 8 sets it's probably not cost effective to split the work North and South, and York Road will likely have the capacity when the De Dietrich sets are withdrawn. Having 2 fewer 201s to maintain will likely have much less of an impact on Irish Rail. I'm sure we'll still see 3 sets stabling at each end every night, and the timetable already allows for rotation.

 

[superalbs]

Here's a couple more full-resolution images:


And another shot of the power car from a presentation:


These seem to be some very interesting units, with a dedicated power car yet pantographs throughout the train. It's a pretty similar product to the diesel-only units for Saudi Arabia, and I guess this is what we nearly got for the East Midlands franchise.

 

[RUK]

I suppose these will be based more on the mainland European FLIRT design than on the U.K. FLIRT design, given the island of Ireland’s wider track gauge, and hence presumably also loading gauge, than on Great Britain? The FLIRT U.K. was the first train with the new FLIRT 3/4 cab design, but it’s seen on newer FLIRTs in mainland Europe now, as well.