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Avanti take needless announcements to a new level

londonbridge

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So, push the responsibility for your wellbeing onto the caterer, rather than taking responsibility for what you put in your own mouth?
And how are you expected to take responsibility if you are completely unaware that the product is potentially harmful to you because all the ingredients aren’t listed on the packaging??
 
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Russel

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And how are you expected to take responsibility if you are completely unaware that the product is potentially harmful to you because all the ingredients aren’t listed on the packaging??

Again, this goes back to listing ingredients properly which isn't relevant!
 

TUC

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And how are you expected to take responsibility if you are completely unaware that the product is potentially harmful to you because all the ingredients aren’t listed on the packaging??
In what way is that at all relevant to the staff warning you? How can they know either?
 

Bikeman78

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You say this, but the amount of people that still manage to walk into those doors, or are caught off guard by them is ridiculous. Accident form galore because of it.
I got clouted on the side of my head by an internal door on a Belgian AM96 unit. I didn't search for the guard or fill in an accident form. I made a mental note to be more careful next time.
 
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One of the best ways for GBR to make an improvement to train passengers' journeys is to stop all of these ridiculous and gratuitous PA announcements by traincrew.

Travelling between Coventry and Birmingham on Avanti trains is torture at times due to the rambling and overly detailed manual announcements. They go on, and on, and on... and then the catering announcement starts!

I get the impression that some staff see themselves as radio DJs and have to deliver highly detailed traffic reports to their 'listeners'.

I accept that for less-frequent travellers a bit more info might be appreciated and delayed connections info for the immediate future might be useful but so much of the rest is simply repeating the PIS info or verbal diarrhoea.

Noise cancelling earphones are essential which can lead to you missing a rare relevant and crucial bit of info.

Please can we be allowed to gaze out the window without the aural hectoring?
 

nilvaj395

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I got clouted on the side of my head by an internal door on a Belgian AM96 unit. I didn't search for the guard or fill in an accident form. I made a mental note to be more careful next time.
On the topic of Europe, I am not sure of its entirety given my more limited experience but they have never to me at least had any overly excessive announcements. Nothing more than upcoming stops and the simple nessecary information. NS for example aside from the sprinter trains (which also even if automatic are not excessive) seem to rely solely on manual announcements (I don't know if there is any exceptions) and that's only the bare essentials (welcome + stopping points, approaching stations etc) and it's much more peaceful.

As much as a culture it has become, I much despise the BTP announcements also. It is really something that can be relegated into a interior information screen as opposed to an announcement at every stop or more.
 

Brooke

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On the topic of Europe … As much as a culture it has become, I much despise the BTP announcements also. It is really something that can be relegated into an interior information screen as opposed to an announcement at every stop or more.
I think the BTP ones are a good example of how simple things are in Europe.

There’s a similar text message system in the Paris metro, but it is just displayed on a poster and on some of the digital message screens.

Travelling in France is much more peaceful than in the UK!
 

trainmania100

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What is this compulsory bag free with every drink? Given I have to pay at least 10p at supermarket, I'm all for it
 

Krokodil

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On the topic of Europe, I am not sure of its entirety given my more limited experience but they have never to me at least had any overly excessive announcements. Nothing more than upcoming stops and the simple nessecary information. NS for example aside from the sprinter trains (which also even if automatic are not excessive) seem to rely solely on manual announcements (I don't know if there is any exceptions) and that's only the bare essentials (welcome + stopping points, approaching stations etc) and it's much more peaceful.
On intercity services in Europe the conductor will often list connecting departures and their platform allocations when approaching the station. I always do the same, many passengers seem to appreciate the heads up.
 

jamiearmley

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I think that is partly because a previous generation of trains, such as HSTs, had foot sensors which would open the doors automatically in response to stepping on them. Why these haven't been fitted to more recent trains is somewhat puzzling.
This. Exactly this.

Walking through several carriages on a HST with your coffee and microwaved burger from the buffet was so easy, as the doors opened as you approach them.

Why we have to go backwards and insist upon manual door open buttons - which are arguably a retrograde step, especially for those with additional needs- continues to puzzle me.

There are, of course so many areas where progress appears to move us backwards - seat comfort, suspension, legroom, announcements, the list goes on.
 

Baxenden Bank

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This. Exactly this.

Walking through several carriages on a HST with your coffee and microwaved burger from the buffet was so easy, as the doors opened as you approach them.

Why we have to go backwards and insist upon manual door open buttons - which are arguably a retrograde step, especially for those with additional needs- continues to puzzle me.

There are, of course so many areas where progress appears to move us backwards - seat comfort, suspension, legroom, announcements, the list goes on.
Doors which can trap you and not re-open too! I have been caught, waiting for the train to stop and me alight, with my body one side of the door and my rucksack (on my back) the other. No way to turn and press the button. They do make an awful crunching sound as you force them back on their track!

As I recall the footpad operated doors had an 'isolation' toggle switch high up on the vestibule panel.
 

nilvaj395

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On intercity services in Europe the conductor will often list connecting departures and their platform allocations when approaching the station. I always do the same, many passengers seem to appreciate the heads up.
Yeah, that is how it should be and what I would call under essentials, especially when there are delays and such. I think the difference for me between the UK and Mainland Europe is that we tend to have automatic announcements + mind the gap + whatever, and then the conductor will repeat the same thing plus more manually.
There’s a similar text message system in the Paris metro, but it is just displayed on a poster and on some of the digital message screens.

Travelling in France is much more peaceful than in the UK!
That's how it should be; so much information that is announced in the UK should be (and is already sometimes) confined to the internal LCDs that most trains have now (failing that, onboard posters). The only argument I can see being put in favour of all of these announcements is if someone is visually impaired and needs it in an audio form.

I think, as others said it could be an insurance liability thing, and I do understand the pain of the people who have been scolded by someone taking their hot drink out of the provided bag! However, I don't think we should be telling 500+ people on the train about it for the maybe handful of people that may actually use the shop (and not necessarily buy hot drinks). You could just tell them at the counter when they are ordering.
 
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TUC

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I think, as others said it could be an insurance liability thing, and I do understand the pain of the people who have been scolded by someone taking their hot drink out of the provided bag! However, I don't think we should be telling 500+ people on the train about it for the maybe handful of people that may actually use the shop (and not necessarily buy hot drinks). You could just tell them at the counter when they are ordering.
I agree. If anyone objects to the bag, it's only then that 'I'm sorry, but I have to' becomes relevsnt.
 

philthetube

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I suspect that the announcement at the start of this thread was a protest by the train manager at being told to make loads of announcements , warning people about wet floors sounds very much like that
 

blimmo

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It'll be paper anyway, not plastic.
In many ways this makes it worse: paper bags use significantly more energy and hence carbon to produce than plastic ones. The only advantage is that they do less harm if they aren't disposed of properly.
 

Russel

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I suspect that the announcement at the start of this thread was a protest by the train manager at being told to make loads of announcements , warning people about wet floors sounds very much like that

No, it's common on Avanti for the on train staff to go overboard with announcements.
 

Sad Sprinter

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Usually threads complaining about excessive onboard announcements concern SWR, so it's a little refreshing to see another TOC under the spotlight for once.

Most likely an effort to reduce liability for anyone being stupid and getting themselves injured by lack of common sense...

I’ve noticed the Elizabeth Line have introduced more announcements, and are worded quite verbosely so they go on for ages.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Another pointless announcement I've just remembered, on rainy days, around stations we're constantly told to be careful as floors may be slippery...

Yet I can leave the station and walk down the street that is also wet and somehow survive, despite not being reminded that the pavement may be slippery every 30 seconds!
Likewise if I catch a train at Sheffield station I will probably be screamed at to stay behind the yellow line yet I can walk out of the station and freely cross the tram tracks wherever I like.

Yes I know Avanti don't serve Sheffield but it just demonstrates how ludicrously risk adverse the rail industry has become.
 

Ellwill

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Likewise if I catch a train at Sheffield station I will probably be screamed at to stay behind the yellow line yet I can walk out of the station and freely cross the tram tracks wherever I like.

Yes I know Avanti don't serve Sheffield but it just demonstrates how ludicrously risk adverse the rail industry has become.
In all honesty, the risk with the yellow line is somewhat well founded. I would point to the case of Christopher McGee, formerly of Merseyrail, who was given five years in prison for gross negligence manslaugter after a fatal incident at James Street in 2011.
From the RAIB report:
"At 23:29 hrs on 22 October 2011, a young person was struck and killed by the train she had left 30 seconds earlier. She was leaning against the train as it began to move out of the station and when she fell, the platform edge gap was wide enough for her to fall through and onto the track. Her post-mortem toxicology report recorded a blood alcohol concentration nearly three times the UK legal drink drive limit."

"The guard dispatched the train while the young person was leaning against it. The RAIB concluded it is possible that he did this because he had seen her but expected her to move away before the train moved or that he looked briefly in her direction but did not see her or that he did not see her because his attention was on his control panel and a large group of people on the platform."

"Platform video camera footage shows him warning her to stand back in the moments before the train departs and it is likely he did this because he thought that it would be immediately effective and because he had no direct and immediate way to stop the train."

​

 

Krokodil

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Likewise if I catch a train at Sheffield station I will probably be screamed at to stay behind the yellow line yet I can walk out of the station and freely cross the tram tracks wherever I like.
Trams are relatively good at stopping quickly in an emergency. Trains are not.
 

Kev77

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I absolutely agree that the content and sheer number of announcements are ridiculous. The reason for them unfortunately are that "secret shoppers" are travelling on the service and scoring the TM and catering crew on their performance. A large part of this is announcements and if certain things are left out you get scored accordingly. I have gone through this process and the subsequent debrief with a manager.
I lost points on not reminding customers to take care due to slippy underfoot conditions due to the rain. I also was questioned why I hadn't done tickets between Preston and Crewe. Had to point out that the train was full and standing, I had bikes on and off, wheelchair users booked and joining us yet all wheelchair spaces where full of massive suitcases and a medical emergency. Little reminder to everyone before you jump to a conclusion about what the TM is or isn't doing, there will no doubt be a very valid reason that you are unaware off.
 

styles

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And how are you expected to take responsibility if you are completely unaware that the product is potentially harmful to you because all the ingredients aren’t listed on the packaging??
All the normal ways other establishments manage (even after Natasha's law):
  • Mention allergy to staff and check the item you want is safe
  • If staff don't seem confident, ask to see the allergen matrix
  • Read the list of ingredients on prepackaged food.
This is what anyone I know with a severe allergy, or severe intolerance, does.

The issue Natasha's law aimed to tackle was that the baguette she got in Pret didn't list sesame as an allergen. Post-Natasha's law, that labelling is now a legal requirement, including for food packaged on the premises.

It didn't require announcements to hundreds of people who may not even be customers, announcements which I'm sceptical would make any difference in all honesty.
 

The exile

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Given the large number of trains on the network nowadays that don't have internal doors, I imagine it's quite easy for someone who usually travels on such trains to get caught out by a door that decides to starts closing as you're starting to walk through it - i.e the door's already open as you approach it, so you don't even realise there's a door there, then it starts closing on you as you're walking through, especially the Pendolino gangway doors which open and close as a pair.
So how about fixing the doors so they don’t close on people?
 

Mattplans

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I’ve noticed the Elizabeth Line have introduced more announcements, and are worded quite verbosely so they go on for ages.
I have a theory that their new announcements played when at a red signal is pre-recorded. Was caught up in some disruption, and I'm certain the announcement said the same thing word-for-word about 5x times. Especially because the internal displays were displaying 'We are at a red signal....', while a manual announcement wouldn't necessarily display that internally at the exact same time it's being manually announced. Or I could be going crazy. Perhaps they think people would respond better to a voice that sounds like a driver telling them they're at a red signal as opposed to the woman that makes all the other announcements.
 

lrbvoyager

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Even TPE have started with catering announcements after every stop! Must of been influenced by Avanti.
 

Vexed

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I have a theory that their new announcements played when at a red signal is pre-recorded. Was caught up in some disruption, and I'm certain the announcement said the same thing word-for-word about 5x times. Especially because the internal displays were displaying 'We are at a red signal....', while a manual announcement wouldn't necessarily display that internally at the exact same time it's being manually announced. Or I could be going crazy. Perhaps they think people would respond better to a voice that sounds like a driver telling them they're at a red signal as opposed to the woman that makes all the other announcements.
There's a pre-recorded version on Thameslink as well. It's manually triggered by the driver. "This train is being held at a red signal and should be moving shortly" I believe is the wording for TL.

Doing it that way also means deaf or hard of hearing people can still understand the announcement as you have the message on the screens, that you wouldn't get for a manual announcement.
 

Mattplans

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There's a pre-recorded version on Thameslink as well. It's manually triggered by the driver. "This train is being held at a red signal and should be moving shortly" I believe is the wording for TL.
Not sure if I was unclear in my post, yes, that's the message you'd expect them to have. Elizabeth Line also seems to have a message voiced by another man (sounds like the driver) that says this red signal stuff, but his voice differs to every other automated announcement on the train. I thought that they might have changed the red signal announcement and recorded it impromptu as it is clearly different from the regular automated announcements, leading customers to think it's the driver speaking, even though it's just another automated announcement.
 

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