At what point is it not considered "street running" for trams?

[frankmoh]

The London Trams do not need barriers in certain parts because they run on the street and it would be impractical to put up loads of fences around Croydon. However, the line through South Norwood Country Park doesn't seem like it fits the definition of street running and yet it has no barriers to the track. Why is this?

South Norwood Country Park, with tram line running through the middle.

Also on another note, you cannot (legally) walk between Harrington Road Tram Stop and a nearby crossing, despite the proximity of them.

Southbound view from Harrington Road Tram Stop. Foot crossing in the middle-distance.

 

[507 001]

For Metrolink there are three distinct running categories:

- Street
- Reservation (or reserved)
- Segregated

Street and Reservation are the most similar, the same rules apply but the speeds can sometimes be higher than they would in conventional street running due to there being less opportunity to encounter pedestrians. These sections are generally not fenced off due to the risk of entrapment.

 

[cool110]

Blackpool mixes it up with a fourth type as they also distinguish between ballasted track parallel to the road and the interurban section on its own alignment.

 

[507 001]

Blackpool mixes it up with a fourth type as they also distinguish between ballasted track parallel to the road and the interurban section on its own alignment.

Is there an actual rule book distinction there though? There wouldn’t be for us, ballasted or concrete slab track that’s not completely separated from road traffic would be classed as reservation running.

If it’s fenced off, as it around Bispham, it would be classed as segregated.

 

[Mojo]

@frankmoh, the images in your post no longer work. May want to check them.

 

[edwin_m]

The distinction in the standards is basically between tramway (vehicles run on line of sight at a speed that they can stop short of any obstruction) and railway (vehicles run faster than this under the authority of signals).

Railways have to be fenced because clearly it is dangerous for someone to be on that kind of track. Level crossings are exceptions they are the number one source of safety risk on the UK railway and it's virtually impossible to add a new one. Otherwise people or road vehicles aren't allowed on the track.

Tramways don't have to be fenced, but can be fenced and pedestrians prohibited from the track on sections where they would be at higher risk (such as tunnels and viaducts). There's nothing to prevent a tramway being fenced for other reasons, but the fencing would have to be designed on the expectation that people might be present. Generally access by road traffic is prohibited or severely limited on street tramway track, but this is usually related to reliable operation not to safety.

 

[frankmoh]

@frankmoh, the images in your post no longer work. May want to check them.

Here is the line running precariously through South Norwood Country Park.




And here is the foot crossing you can't walk to from Harrington Road tram stop despite it being right there.

 

[frankmoh]

Tramways don't have to be fenced, but can be fenced and pedestrians prohibited from the track on sections where they would be at higher risk (such as tunnels and viaducts).

This is true on the formerly railway sections of the Tramlink, such as between Elmers End and Sandilands.

Generally access by road traffic is prohibited or severely limited on street tramway track, but this is usually related to reliable operation not to safety.

Unusually Lebanon Road is still open to cars, buses and trams. I have had to endure several traffic jams in all 3 of these modes of transport because of the other two.

 

[daodao]

The distinction in the standards is basically between tramway (vehicles run on line of sight at a speed that they can stop short of any obstruction) and railway (vehicles run faster than this under the authority of signals).

Railways have to be fenced because clearly it is dangerous for someone to be on that kind of track. Level crossings are exceptions they are the number one source of safety risk on the UK railway and it's virtually impossible to add a new one. Otherwise people or road vehicles aren't allowed on the track.

Tramways don't have to be fenced, but can be fenced and pedestrians prohibited from the track on sections where they would be at higher risk (such as tunnels and viaducts). There's nothing to prevent a tramway being fenced for other reasons, but the fencing would have to be designed on the expectation that people might be present. Generally access by road traffic is prohibited or severely limited on street tramway track, but this is usually related to reliable operation not to safety.

In the UK, street tramway track, but not reserved track, is generally accessible to ordinary road vehicles. An example in Manchester is Hollyhedge Road east of the M56 bridge; the section west of it is reserved track with ungated (but signal controlled) level crossings.

However, while there are many other examples of street tramway track on modern UK tramways, they have generally been designed to minimise the extent of street running, as mingling with ordinary road traffic subjects the tram service to the vagaries of traffic congestion and increases collision risks.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Level crossings are exceptions they are the number one source of safety risk on the UK railway and it's virtually impossible to add a new one.

Makes the Rother Valley Railways approval for three new ones very impressive

 

[jon81uk]

And here is the foot crossing you can't walk to from Harrington Road tram stop despite it being right there.

Looking at the satellite image on Google Maps you can easily walk to the tram stop by following the footpath for 30m on to Harrington Road and then the tram stop is 20m away. The tram tracks are flanked by a house and a cemetry between Harrington Road and the footpath so it makes sense as to why there is no path on the small amount of land on the side of the tracks at the bottom of someones garden or the side of the cemetary.

Harrington Road · Harrington Rd, London SE25 4NF

★★★★☆ · Tram stop

www.google.co.uk

 

[D365]

Blackpool mixes it up with a fourth type as they also distinguish between ballasted track parallel to the road and the interurban section on its own alignment.

Is there an actual rule book distinction there though? There wouldn’t be for us, ballasted or concrete slab track that’s not completely separated from road traffic would be classed as reservation running.

Sheffield has similar at various points. Ballasted track adjacent to roads.

 

[etr221]

Unusually Lebanon Road is still open to cars, buses and trams. I have had to endure several traffic jams in all 3 of these modes of transport because of the other two.

I think you mean that part of Addiscombe Road which isn't the A235, through Lebanon Road tram stop - Lebanon Road itself has no tram track, and is not a bus route.

One of the oddities with Tramlink I noted years ago, but never bothered to follow up - the Tramlink Act provides for penalties for 'Trespassing on Tramlink' (which it stated was 'railways'), but this was dependent on appropriate 'do not trespass ... penalty ...' notices being installed - which wasn't done.

 

[YorksLad12]

In Sheffield, Granville Street and Park Square Bridge are 'interesting', in that they are segregated tram sections but with a footpath/cycle path alongside. Segregated but not segregated (and people frequently walk along the wrong side causing trams to slow down so as not to hit them).

 

[edwin_m]

One of the oddities with Tramlink I noted years ago, but never bothered to follow up - the Tramlink Act provides for penalties for 'Trespassing on Tramlink' (which it stated was 'railways'), but this was dependent on appropriate 'do not trespass ... penalty ...' notices being installed - which wasn't done.

Typically they will just install round "no pedestrians" signs on sections where it would be considered dangerous to wander around on the track. I don't know which ones these are on Tramlink, but I would expect the former rail tunnels to be included. It's interesting that they have powers to enforce this if they install the relevant extra signage, and have never done so. Perhaps it's just a way of making sure they aren't liable if someone is hit by a tram on one of these sections.

There was an issue a few years ago about "No Entry" signs with a plate "Except Trams", which were not generally authorised for use on the highway so had to be specifically agreed by DfT or predecessors each time. It's quite common for road vehicles to mistakenly drive down a tramway where it diverges from a shared traffic lane, usually ending up stuck somewhere. At this time the tramways just had to put up a blue "Tram only" sign, which I would guess most people just think is a warning of trams being present like the similar "Tramway look both ways". Some would put "No Entry Except Trams" far enough back that it didn't count as being on the highway, but I believe they weren't enforceable. This has now been cleared up I think.

 

[507 001]

Sheffield has similar at various points. Ballasted track adjacent to roads.

But we’re still none the wiser as to whether there’s an actual official distinction made. Ballasted track alongside a road would just be considered reservation running on Metrolink, for example between Shadowmoss and the Airport.