Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[Bellecat]

That's a shame, was hoping to catch it again on the way back. Guess I'll have to wait till next week now and hope for better luck!

Me too, knew I should have gone to Derby earlier this morning!

 

[Rob F]

810s have two only powered bogies per unit. I'm not surprised if they're having adhesion issues accelerating at low speeds

I thought they had 4? Both bogies on coaches B and D.

 

[800001]

Toilet door issues. They managed to fix it on 010 yesterday, today they are monitoring it and probably biting their nails over it! Hopefully they can revert to rest of the diagram back to 810 before it gets to Derby

As a side note I'm not 100% sure if it's both or just the one in coach E (the most important one as the only wheelchair accessible areas are in that coach)

Only wheelchairs in one carriage? Is that first or standard?
I would have thought would have been in both.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Not a good day for 810006. More issues under power leaving Chesterfield again. These are the sort of issues that should be ironed out in testing. This is not caused by passengers being on board. If anything a train full of passengers should aid adhesion.

It gained a minute on the schedule between Chesterfield and Dore S, according to realtimetrains, although that included a minute engineering allowance and a minute pathing allowance.

 

[Railperf]

810s have two only powered bogies per unit. I'm not surprised if they're having adhesion issues accelerating at low speeds

isn't it four powered bpgies on the two driving vehicles at each end of the train.
The issue isn't helped by the lack of drive axles, but it seems the traction software backs off drastically - especially under full power - and seems to go back to Idle before power can be reapplied. Stadler 745's have the same amount of bogies for six vehicles yet the traction software seems more adept to backing off the power slightly - even allowing some slip until the wheels gain traction again. Unless this was a fault on this particular unit?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

It gained a minute on the schedule between Chesterfield and Dore S, according to realtimetrains, although that included a minute engineering allowance and a minute pathing allowance.

it was not as quick to accelerate up to Bradway as a 222. Even the driver admitted these are generally slightly slower to all speeds than the 222's.

 

[zwk500]

Even the driver admitted these are generally slightly slower to all speeds than the 222's.

Is that on both modes or just diesel?

 

[Railperf]

Is that on both modes or just diesel?

810's are slower on diesel than a 222 as predicted. They are faster on electric, but unable to really see how much faster from rest until I manage to travel on one that stops at Kettering and Market Harborough.
What is clear is how quickly they recover from lower speed restrictions accelerating back to line speed.
Having had to travel back on a 222, it is clear the 222 engine is noisier and more agricultural - you feel the vibration more. But the HVAC on the 222's is quieter, the cabin feels better isolated against outside noise. And the seats - as tired as they are - are a bit comfier.
It is quite a dull / dark day and the interior lighting is cosier on the 222 -;while the 810 is very bright much like a hospital waiting area.
They also haven't sorted saloon temperatures out on the 810's because I had to resort to putting on my coat. Unless that was due to a fault.

 

[swt_passenger]

810s have two only powered bogies per unit. I'm not surprised if they're having adhesion issues accelerating at low speeds

You seem to keep getting this wrong, I think. Didn’t you agree with them having four powered bogies last month here:

Class 810 on the Midland Mainline: are the timetables too tight, or should the trains have been of a higher spec?

The 810s on electric are going to be superior to a 222. Although how much faster remains to be seen because the 222's are already a very fast and capable machine. It is the diesel sections that are going to be more variable particularly if an engine is out. I would hope they can't be much slower...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Railperf]

You seem to keep getting this wrong, I think. Didn’t you agree with them having four powered bogies last month here:

Class 810 on the Midland Mainline: are the timetables too tight, or should the trains have been of a higher spec?

The 810s on electric are going to be superior to a 222. Although how much faster remains to be seen because the 222's are already a very fast and capable machine. It is the diesel sections that are going to be more variable particularly if an engine is out. I would hope they can't be much slower...

www.railforums.co.uk

It is four powered bogies - two under vehicle two, and two under vehicle four. Nothing under the driving vehicles or the middle vehicle! But there are GU's on all but the middle vehicle!

 

[43055]

Only wheelchairs in one carriage? Is that first or standard?
I would have thought would have been in both.

2 spaces in the first class end vehicle.

 

[PG]

2 spaces in the first class end vehicle.

Presumably any Standard class wheelchair passengers get a free upgrade to First class then?

 

[Nottingham59]

I thought they had 4? Both bogies on coaches B and D.

My mistake. It's still only 8 out of 20 axles powered, which will limit acceleration that can be achieved.

 

[liamf656]

Presumably any Standard class wheelchair passengers get a free upgrade to First class then?

Correct. Both spaces in coach E and all wheelchair users will receive a first class service

 

[Nottingham59]

You seem to keep getting this wrong, I think. Didn’t you agree with them having four powered bogies last month here:

Yeah, I know. Weird isn't it? Seem to have a blind spot there....

 

[duffield]

Correct. Both spaces in coach E and all wheelchair users will receive a first class service

It's a big improvement for couples or friends who both use wheelchairs, who on other trains like the 222s would be forced to travel separately at opposite ends of the train.

 

[yhy17]

Has anyone tried to charge their phone on the train to test if the touchscreen malfunctions when plugged in (like on the GWR and LNER Hitachi trains)?

 

[Railperf]

Has anyone tried to charge their phone on the train to test if the touchscreen malfunctions when plugged in (like on the GWR and LNER Hitachi trains)?

Only using a 240v charger. No issues noted

 

[Bald Rick]

810's are slower on diesel than a 222 as predicted.

Are you making that judgement based on one trip on a wet day ?

 

[QSK19]

Are you making that judgement based on one trip on a wet day ?

Agreed - still very, very early days!!

 

[class387]

Can anyone who's had a ride comment on the difference between the seats on the 810 and those on the FLIRTs? Are they more padded and less upright, as promised?

 

[Yew]

Can anyone who's had a ride comment on the difference between the seats on the 810 and those on the FLIRTs? Are they more padded and less upright, as promised?

In a similar vein, how do the ride quality improvements manifest in reality.

 

[Railperf]

Are you making that judgement based on one trip on a wet day

No it is based on berth data timings , computer modelling confirmed by drivers.

 

[Nottingham59]

Are you making that judgement based on one trip on a wet day ?

The 810s have a published acceleration of 0.75m/s^2, compared to 0.8m/s^2 in a class 222. You'd expect them to be a bit slower at low to medium speeds from a standing start. That acceleration requires an achieved coefficient of friction of nearly 18.75%, which is high for steel wheels on steel rail. Their wheelslip control will have to be world class.

And the 810 has only 8 powered axles each rated at 290kW = 2.32 MW, which appears to be the limitied factor whatever the energy source. Though these may have a boost mode for short periods, or else I can't see why the four diesel engines have been uprated to 735kW = 2.94MW per unit. I assume power on AC will match or exceed this, but I haven't seen any figures.

The 222 has one 559kW diesel engine in every coach = 2.80MW in a 5-car unit, and two powered axles in each coach, rated at 300kW each, so not a constraint. The 810s should be able to out-accelerate a 222 at medium to high speeds, but only if the axle motors are pushed beyond their continuous power rating.

 

[185143]

Is that a fair assessment? The pictures I've seen suggest the legroom is fine

I'm just going off what they said to me. They shared my view in being very positive about the 810s on the whole, so I suspect it was a genuine opinion.

I've never had issues with legroom on anything, so I'm really not in a position to disagree!

 

[DaveyJones]

810010 is back out today on 1C17 etc

 

[GoneSouth]

K

Correct. Both spaces in coach E and all wheelchair users will receive a first class service

What about anyone travelling with them? Pay first class or be separated?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2025 ==

Geoff has had his first ride on one. Here’s a link to his YouTube video

 

[Railperf]

The 810s have a published acceleration of 0.75m/s^2, compared to 0.8m/s^2 in a class 222. You'd expect them to be a bit slower at low to medium speeds from a standing start. That acceleration requires an achieved coefficient of friction of nearly 18.75%, which is high for steel wheels on steel rail. Their wheelslip control will have to be world class.

And the 810 has only 8 powered axles each rated at 290kW = 2.32 MW, which appears to be the limitied factor whatever the energy source. Though these may have a boost mode for short periods, or else I can't see why the four diesel engines have been uprated to 735kW = 2.94MW per unit. I assume power on AC will match or exceed this, but I haven't seen any figures.

The 222 has one 559kW diesel engine in every coach = 2.80MW in a 5-car unit, and two powered axles in each coach, rated at 300kW each, so not a constraint. The 810s should be able to out-accelerate a 222 at medium to high speeds, but only if the axle motors are pushed beyond their continuous power rating.

The published acceleration figures are a maximum at a given point in the acceleration curve rather than a constant figure. In terms of putting power down it has as many powered axles as a 2+3 HST. in its current state, the difference in acceleration between diesel and electric suggests that Hitachi / MTU traction software maybe more consrvatively set from a power point of view - possibly due to the reliably issues Avanti have been having with their Class 805's which use the same power units but one less GU per set.

Let's face it, the 222's had their engines detuned from a reliability and fuel saving point of view. So there will be a process here in understanding the best settings for East Midlands.

If GWR land is anything to go by, it looks like the engines will eventually be tuned to the minimum level to achieve current schedules at highest reliability level. Experience is telling us that these engines don't like being highly tuned in a rail application.

Anyway, if my journey yesterday highlighted any performance issues, it was that the train should more or less meet the schedule. But the infrastructure through Leicester and Sheffield (not enough through tracks and too many flat junctions) was the cause of most delays where late running freight ended up impeding my runs both ways through there. And as @Bald Rick has mentioned before, once you pick up a delay, the schedule is too tight to make any sort of recovery. Therefore once out of path by more than a couple of minutes you end up with Corby and Thameslink trains in front!

 

[liamf656]

K

What about anyone travelling with them? Pay first class or be separated?

They also get upgraded

 

[midland1]

K

What about anyone travelling with them? Pay first class or be separated?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2025 ==

Geoff has had his first ride on one. Here’s a link to his YouTube video

The train he was on the pan. came down south of Kilby Bridge Jn. That were I saw it. That seems to be the case with most of the test trains seen.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The train he was on the pan. came down south of Kilby Bridge Jn. That were I saw it. That seems to be the case with most of the test trains seen.

I was also on that train and can confirm that. I was watching its shadow, and also heard the thud.