LNER Stevenage Pickup/Setdown

[Tram203]

So, realistically, a situation could arise in a Thameslink meltdown where King's Cross platforms are clogged with northbound LNER trains awaiting staff, because LNER won't allow LNER staff to use LNER trains to get to King's Cross to book on and work them?

 

[azOOOOOma]

Or someone who realises that the Lumo operation (and therefore their job at an open access operator) relies on revenue being earnt, which there couldn’t be for your journey. IIRC it was a licence condition as well, so needs to be enforced.

It always astonishes me how little people understand about commercial reality, or how money is made. Even under GBR, there’ll be a need to account properly for revenue accrued by business unit.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==


It’ll certainly be interesting to see whether any disciplinary cases are put forward, after all it’s not as if managers travelling on those trains can’t see out of the window.

Well the travelling managers on my train will be welcome to enforce it. I won’t be as it’s just another pinch point for abuse/attitude/assault. If they feel strongly then…

 

[Hadders]

Being pick up only northbound makes sense. It stops Stevenage commuters grabbing all of the unreserved seats resulting in long distance passengers having to stand for the first part of their journey.

I'd like to think this change is to stop overcrowding between Kings Cross and Stevenage.

If you read what I put upthread you’ll see that LNER have told my MP that only an average of 15 passengers per train use the LNER train (I don’t believe this figure)

In my experience, the 17:33 and 18:33 LNER departures from Kings Cross, first stop Stevenage, convey large volumes of fresh air.

If there were hoards of Stevenage commuters using LNER’s trains then how are they going to be accommodated? Thameslink trains don’t run empty, it’s already standing room only in the peak.

"Saving 45 seconds at each Stevenage call means apparently make the timetable more robust."

It's more than 45 seconds. The train has to slow down to stop and then accelerate back to line speed, that's not instant. And might it have to change tracks to let a following service not stopping overtake it?

The trains are still stopping at Stevenage!

 

[Rich McLean]

The most effectively way is to deploy Revenue Protection Teams to those trains between Stevenage and Kings Cross (and v.v), then charge those passengers for the full fare from the previous call or next station stop (depending on direction). GWR used to do this regularly over the years. Obviously they can't do this for every single train, but if they target these trains, less passengers will take the risk.

It's better than having arguments on the platform.

 

[bramling]

"Saving 45 seconds at each Stevenage call means apparently make the timetable more robust."

It's more than 45 seconds. The train has to slow down to stop and then accelerate back to line speed, that's not instant. And might it have to change tracks to let a following service not stopping overtake it?

From memory, I think a Stevenage calls adds about 4-5 minutes with typical dwell times. But the train will be stopping anyway, so that doesn’t apply.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

The most effectively way is to deploy Revenue Protection Teams to those trains between Stevenage and Kings Cross (and v.v), then charge those passengers for the full fare from the previous call or next station stop (depending on direction). GWR used to do this regularly over the years. Obviously they can't do this for every single train, but if they target these trains, less passengers will take the risk.

It's better than having arguments on the platform.

Judging by what happens on the (nowadays rare) occasions you see revenue on the GN services, they would be met with a blank look, shake of the head, followed by something mumbled like “I go London”.

In practice, they aren’t going to get away with doing that. Stevenage passengers are too used to using the LNER trains. It’s very many years now since any restriction applied.

 

[Hadders]

The most effectively way is to deploy Revenue Protection Teams to those trains between Stevenage and Kings Cross (and v.v), then charge those passengers for the full fare from the previous call or next station stop (depending on direction). GWR used to do this regularly over the years. Obviously they can't do this for every single train, but if they target these trains, less passengers will take the risk.

It's better than having arguments on the platform.

The issue is why are LNER going pick-up/set down only rather than how you police it.

Reality is policing it, even in the way you describe won’t be easy given that it’s typically a 19 minute journey.

 

[YorksLad12]

The issue is why are LNER going pick-up/set down only rather than how you police it.

Reality is policing it, even in the way you describe won’t be easy given that it’s typically a 19 minute journey.

Why call at Stevenage at all? What major flows are being served that LNER has to stop to set down (southbound) or pick up (northbound)? Is it that there's no space to have all trains call at Peterborough? Genuine questions.

 

[Hadders]

Why call at Stevenage at all? What major flows are being served that LNER has to stop to set down (southbound) or pick up (northbound)? Is it that there's no space to have all trains call at Peterborough? Genuine questions.

Stevenage is a major interchange station serving passengers from a wide area across Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and North London who wish to make journeys to/from the north.

LNER (and its predecessors) has increased the number of trains that call in recent years.

 

[xotGD]

I do think it's quite an obvious thing to reserve a seat on such journeys when booking. If people decide not to, then rock up at the last minute, and then must stand for twenty minutes, I'd hardly be devastated for them.

Many a time I've had a reserved seat back to Leeds but managed to make a quick dash for the service 30 minutes earlier. No time to make a fresh reservation in those circumstances. Or should I make a speculative second reservation, just in case?

 

[Failed Unit]

Why call at Stevenage at all? What major flows are being served that LNER has to stop to set down (southbound) or pick up (northbound)? Is it that there's no space to have all trains call at Peterborough? Genuine questions.

WIth the new timetable - it will be much quicker to do Cambridge - Leeds / Newcastle via Stevenage compared to changing at Peterborough. Going South the higher frequency will be welcomed by some. Going North if you miss the LNER you are waiting 1 hour just like at Peterborough.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Many a time I've had a reserved seat back to Leeds but managed to make a quick dash for the service 30 minutes earlier. No time to make a fresh reservation in those circumstances. Or should I make a speculative second reservation, just in case?

Well you take the choice, slow down and get the train with a reserved seat or speed up and hope for the best. Of course if the train is genuinely full of Stevenage commuters then you'll only be standing for 20 minutes or so and then you'll be able to swoop into the empty seats.

The issue is why are LNER going pick-up/set down only rather than how you police it.

The only explanation that makes any sense is Project Oval.

Now that so many of the GN trains go into Thameslink, for many commuters those services would be preferable anyway as they get them closer to/from where they're going. The 1733 LNER is followed by a Brighton-Cambridge which also calls at Finsbury Park, so unless you're actually at Kings Cross then the GTR is likely to be more appealing.

 

[tumbledown]

I do think it's quite an obvious thing to reserve a seat on such journeys when booking. If people decide not to, then rock up at the last minute, and then must stand for twenty minutes, I'd hardly be devastated for them.

The assumption that all passengers know when they are going to be able to travel is a false one.
Those who do not are not inferior passengers.

 

[YorksLad12]

Stevenage is a major interchange station serving passengers from a wide area across Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and North London who wish to make journeys to/from the north.

LNER (and its predecessors) has increased the number of trains that call in recent years.

WIth the new timetable - it will be much quicker to do Cambridge - Leeds / Newcastle via Stevenage compared to changing at Peterborough. Going South the higher frequency will be welcomed by some. Going North if you miss the LNER you are waiting 1 hour just like at Peterborough.

Thanks both.

 

[Hadders]

The only explanation that makes any sense is Project Oval.

That is not what LNER have said in their customer communications or to my MP.

Now that so many of the GN trains go into Thameslink, for many commuters those services would be preferable anyway as they get them closer to/from where they're going. The 1733 LNER is followed by a Brighton-Cambridge which also calls at Finsbury Park, so unless you're actually at Kings Cross then the GTR is likely to be more appealing.

Kings Cross is more convenient if arriving on the underground.

Also, the xx12 and xx42 GN peak extras from Kings Cross (1st stop Stevenage) are normally standing only on departure. You won’t get a seat on the xx31 or xx46 from St Pancras and definitely not at Finsbury Park.

Meanwhile the 17:33 and 18:33 LNER have spare capacity between Kings Cross and Stevenage, as long distance business travel isn’t what it used to be.

 

[Kite159]

And commuters probably prefer the ability to get onto the train at the start of the journey to make themselves comfortable compared to standing around the grim underground platforms at St Pancras for the correct 700 to roll in from the south (which will already be busy with commuters from Blackfriars/City Thameslink/Farringdon etc).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Also, the xx12 and xx42 GN peak extras from Kings Cross (1st stop Stevenage) are normally standing only on departure. You won’t get a seat on the xx31 or xx46 from St Pancras and definitely not at Finsbury Park.

Meanwhile the 17:33 and 18:33 LNER have spare capacity between Kings Cross and Stevenage, as long distance business travel isn’t what it used to be.

If it’s as you’ve described (and I assume it is!) then more people are choosing the GTR service. A standing room only 12-car 700 is a heck of a lot of people. So it makes even less sense that LNER are citing capacity and dwell times as a reason.

That is not what LNER have said in their customer communications or to my MP.

I’m sure they have, and it makes me wonder whether the official reason is the same as the actual reason.

 

[Hadders]

Tonight’s 18:33 LNER departure from Kings Cross, first stop Stevenage, has 45 passengers in coach C. There are 84 seats in the coach.

 

[Fuzzytop]

Is it not the case that a lot of LNER Stevenage calls will be made by shorter trains in the new timetable? In the present timetable the 1733 and 1833 departures are both 9-car Azumas with about 500 standard class seats. The replacement for the former becomes the 1739, which is booked to be a 7-car InterCity 225 with around 175 fewer seats.

If capacity is going to be constrained I could understand the restrictions, at least northbound, while the new timetable is bedding in.

 

[Hadders]

Is it not the case that a lot of LNER Stevenage calls will be made by shorter trains in the new timetable? In the present timetable the 1733 and 1833 departures are both 9-car Azumas with about 500 standard class seats. The replacement for the former becomes the 1739, which is booked to be a 7-car InterCity 225 with around 175 fewer seats.

If capacity is going to be constrained I could understand the restrictions, at least northbound, while the new timetable is bedding in.

That is a sensible point, however based on my observations of loadings there would still be sufficient space on board.

But this doesn’t explain why pick-up and set down is being imposed on all LNER trains at Stevenage. They won’t all have reduced capacity.

 

[Haywain]

I assume the LNER argument here would be that they don't offer a service between Stevenage and London so the staff should have been travelling on different trains (and paying) all along.

LNER staff have free residential travel on GTR services.

 

[Robbouk]

The 20:33 Kings Cross to Leeds is always packed with Stevenage passengers, many of whom happily take reserved seats that are for longer distance travellers. I've got the no seat guarantee refund many times on that service so I think this is a perfect one to not be setting down at Stevenage.

Others though which are less packed out could probably still set down but I suppose that causes confusion.

 

[yorkie]

The most effectively way is to deploy Revenue Protection Teams to those trains between Stevenage and Kings Cross (and v.v), then charge those passengers for the full fare from the previous call or next station stop (depending on direction)...

On what lawful basis?

GWR used to do this regularly over the years.

If you refer to the current GWR company, I don't think we have ever had any reports of this happening on this forum, which would be surprising if it ever did.

Obviously they can't do this for every single train, but if they target these trains, less passengers will take the risk.

I'm not convinced this would be an effective use of resources, notwithstanding the dubious legality of this proposal. Presumably your idea is that the railway would generate negative publicity and this would be seen as a good thing?

It's better than having arguments on the platform.

This is a classic false dichotomy fallacy; are you aware that Greater Anglia and SWR avoid all these hassles, as well as avoiding extended dwell times, by simply not advertising the trains and then not fussing over anyone who is 'in the know' and takes the train anyway? Is there any reason why LNER can't take the same approach (other than being an authoritarian company that doesn't like to apply pragmatism, which isn't a genuine excuse)?

 

[jon0844]

It would seem that not advertising, letting a train leave early, and not paying out on delay repay if there was a problem is all that needs to be done.

At King's Cross, you could potentially check tickets before boarding and push back those only with a ticket to Stevenage. That would do the job, with no penalties but perhaps a bit of moaning.

 

[Bikeman78]

Meanwhile the 17:33 and 18:33 LNER have spare capacity between Kings Cross and Stevenage, as long distance business travel isn’t what it used to be.

This isn't even a new thing. I travelled on a 17xx departure from King's Cross well over 20 years ago and the leading coach had plenty of free seats. In other news, I got off at Stevenage even though it was pick up only at the time!

 

[Ecmlleeds]

The 20:33 Kings Cross to Leeds is always packed with Stevenage passengers, many of whom happily take reserved seats that are for longer distance travellers. I've got the no seat guarantee refund many times on that service so I think this is a perfect one to not be setting down at Stevenage.

Others though which are less packed out could probably still set down but I suppose that causes confusion.

I agree, last night this service was packed to the rafters as it is on a Thursday and I had people stood in the vestibules until after Stevenage so certainly I think on services like this one it'll help alleviate that a little.

 

[Horizon22]

I agree, last night this service was packed to the rafters as it is on a Thursday and I had people stood in the vestibules until after Stevenage so certainly I think on services like this one it'll help alleviate that a little.

Which is fine. And they can do what GWR does (for Reading) and take a targeted approach to actively not advertise specific trans. Unfortunately LNER are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

 

[Ecmlleeds]

Which is fine. And they can do what GWR does (for Reading) and take a targeted approach to actively not advertise specific trans. Unfortunately LNER are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

I honestly think it makes sense northbound in general, but I can appreciate a differing view southbound

 

[Ian79]

The 20:33 Kings Cross to Leeds is always packed with Stevenage passengers, many of whom happily take reserved seats that are for longer distance travellers. I've got the no seat guarantee refund many times on that service so I think this is a perfect one to not be setting down at Stevenage.

Others though which are less packed out could probably still set down but I suppose that causes confusion.

20:33 is hardly rush-hour though, so it would be interesting to understand why so many people take this particular train to Stevenage.

Perhaps there's a gap in the faster Thameslink services, or is it that it's people who stop for a couple of drinks in Kings Cross after work and trudging all the way down into the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras is just less convenient. The fact it takes 7 minutes less than the faster Thameslink trains might make a difference too, but given the passengers have already stopped off on the way home from work they can't be on a time critical journey.

Also, with an arrival time of nearly 11pm into Leeds, it's getting fairly late for anyone starting long distance journeys, and a good few trains after the artificial late evening peak caused by the restrictions on "off peak" tickets. I've never taken that particular train, but my experience is that anything arriving in York around that time is fairly empty for the second half of the journey.

 

[Royston Vasey]

It would seem that not advertising, letting a train leave early, and not paying out on delay repay if there was a problem is all that needs to be done.

At King's Cross, you could potentially check tickets before boarding and push back those only with a ticket to Stevenage. That would do the job, with no penalties but perhaps a bit of moaning.

20:33 is hardly rush-hour though, so it would be interesting to understand why so many people take this particular train to Stevenage.

Perhaps there's a gap in the faster Thameslink services, or is it that it's people who stop for a couple of drinks in Kings Cross after work and trudging all the way down into the Thameslink platforms at St Pancras is just less convenient. The fact it takes 7 minutes less than the faster Thameslink trains might make a difference too, but given the passengers have already stopped off on the way home from work they can't be on a time critical journey.

Also, with an arrival time of nearly 11pm into Leeds, it's getting fairly late for anyone starting long distance journeys, and a good few trains after the artificial late evening peak caused by the restrictions on "off peak" tickets. I've never taken that particular train, but my experience is that anything arriving in York around that time is fairly empty for the second half of the journey.

I would have a good bet that lots of them will be on LNER Advance tickets from KGX-SVG, because it's often cheapest and always quickest.

The 20:33 to Leeds is a bit of a special case for good reasons.

I searched for a SVG-KGX return next Thursday, out at 08:30, back at 20:15. Interestingly, even without a railcard the cheapest combination is flexible singles, so even the non-split booking engines like Great Northern's will already be offering singles not the Anytime Day Return. This is important, as far more commuters than usual will be looking at two singles instead of a return.

There's only 20p difference in price between GN and LNER return but it is much much quicker by LNER.

https://trainsplit.com/results?From...5&InboundTime=20:15&Adults=1&OpenReturn=false

Importantly, this is also what Trainline and even Great Northern's own booking engine will offer. GN is not even a fancy splitting site, it already offers singles.

https://ticket.greatnorthernrail.com/journeys-grid/SVG/KGX/2025-12-11T08:00/2025-12-11T20:15/1//NEWx1?departNow=no&realTime=no&searchPreferences=,,,,true&showAdditionalRoutes=no&showCheapest=no&tocSpecific=no

Also notable that if you plan to be at Kings Cross about 20:00, your options for the next hour area as follows, since the GN service thins out.

19:57 1 Change FPK, 31 mins
19:57 Direct, 41 mins
20:00 Direct, 43 mins
20:27 Direct, 41 mins
20:33 Direct, 20 mins (+£0.20) - not cheaper, admittedly, but very close!
21:00 Direct, 21 mins (+£0.60)

I would say most passengers will choose the 20:33 from that list. So this particular service is also a quirk of the current timetable and the quirk of fares that are always cheaper as two singles (at the moment!)

This would all very very easily have been solved by LNER just ceasing to sell advances to and from Stevenage. They'd still get people on Any Permitted on the train but on flexible tickets, they're more likely to choose a different train than wait around for that one, and they won't have seat reservations.

It would also have been helped by contactless being available at Stevenage from next week. People will not plan the journey on a booking engine any more, they'll just tap and go, and not ever be shown the quick option for almost the same price.



PS if you're a commuter heading home around 17:30, the 17:33 LNER combination is actually cheapest by £4.20. This is a big difference! But that train is anecdotally not crowded, it's not an issue anyway!

https://trainsplit.com/results?From...5&InboundTime=17:30&Adults=1&OpenReturn=false

 

[Hadders]

I would have a good bet that lots of them will be on LNER Advance tickets from KGX-SVG, because it's often cheapest and always quickest.

The 20:33 to Leeds is a bit of a special case for good reasons.

I searched for a SVG-KGX return next Thursday, out at 08:30, back at 20:15. Interestingly, even without a railcard the cheapest combination is flexible singles, so even the non-split booking engines like Great Northern's will already be offering singles not the Anytime Day Return. This is important, as far more commuters than usual will be looking at two singles instead of a return.

There's only 20p difference in price between GN and LNER return but it is much much quicker by LNER.

https://trainsplit.com/results?From...5&InboundTime=20:15&Adults=1&OpenReturn=false

Importantly, this is also what Trainline and even Great Northern's own booking engine will offer. GN is not even a fancy splitting site, it already offers singles.

https://ticket.greatnorthernrail.com/journeys-grid/SVG/KGX/2025-12-11T08:00/2025-12-11T20:15/1//NEWx1?departNow=no&realTime=no&searchPreferences=,,,,true&showAdditionalRoutes=no&showCheapest=no&tocSpecific=no

Also notable that if you plan to be at Kings Cross about 20:00, your options for the next hour area as follows, since the GN service thins out.

19:57 1 Change FPK, 31 mins
19:57 Direct, 41 mins
20:00 Direct, 43 mins
20:27 Direct, 41 mins
20:33 Direct, 20 mins (+£0.20) - not cheaper, admittedly, but very close!
21:00 Direct, 21 mins (+£0.60)

I would say most passengers will choose the 20:33 from that list. So this particular service is also a quirk of the current timetable and the quirk of fares that are always cheaper as two singles (at the moment!)

This would all very very easily have been solved by LNER just ceasing to sell advances to and from Stevenage. They'd still get people on Any Permitted on the train but on flexible tickets, they're more likely to choose a different train than wait around for that one.

It would also have been helped by contactless being available at Stevenage from next week. People will not plan the journey on a booking engine any more, they'll just tap and go, and not ever be shown the quick option for almost the same price.



PS if you're a commuter heading home around 17:30, the 17:33 LNER combination is actually cheapest by £4.20. This is a big difference! But that train is anecdotally not crowded, it's not an issue anyway!

https://trainsplit.com/results?From...5&InboundTime=17:30&Adults=1&OpenReturn=false

Some very interesting analysis.

Also last night I note that the 20:01 and 20:46 Thameslink services from St Pancras to Stevenage were cancelled last night. This might have influenced some to travel on the 20:33.