Proposed new Channel Tunnel services discussion

[Snow1964]

Reported in Belgium that Eurostar and Deutche Bahn have signed an intent to collaborate agreement

Deutsche Bahn and Eurostar have signed an agreement of intent to collaborate on new direct train routes between London and major German cities like Cologne and Frankfurt.

Eurostar, partially owned by Belgian railway company SNCB/NMBS, will work closely with Deutsche Bahn to make this vision a reality.

While both companies see significant potential in the project, they note that technical, operational, and legal challenges must still be addressed.

The initiative has received political support. German Transport Minister Patrick Schnieder stated that a dedicated working group is already tackling the legal, infrastructural, and political prerequisites.

UK Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander added that the project is expected to create jobs, boost trade, and enable greener international travel.

Currently, Eurostar and Deutsche Bahn compete on the high-speed route between Brussels and Cologne, where Deutsche Bahn operates its ICE services.

The partnership aims to establish these connections by 2030, as Eurostar announced its plans earlier this year.

Deutsche Bahn and Eurostar working on new rail links

The two rail companies are working on new lines connecting London and two major German cities.

www.brusselstimes.com

 

[zwk500]

That's very interesting.

 

[LLivery]

A bit more info, including making it clear Avelia Horizon stock would be used

EUROPE: Eurostar and Deutsche Bahn are working together to develop plans to launch direct high speed train services between London and major German cities such as Köln and Frankfurt in the early 2030s.

In a joint announcement on December 4, the two operators said launching a direct service between the UK and Germany ‘is considered highly challenging to be implemented by individual railway undertakings’, and so ‘joint partnerships are therefore critical’. Eurostar is contributing its expertise in cross-Channel rail travel, with DB bringing its ‘network and presence across Germany’.

The proposed services would use the Avelia Horizon Celestia double-deck high speed trainsets which Eurostar ordered from Alstom in October this year with entry into service planned from May 2031. The journey time from London to Köln would be around 4 h, with Frankfurt just over 5 h from London.

Michael Peterson, member of the management board for Long-Distance Passenger Transport at DB, said ‘Europe is coming together ever more closely by rail. In co-operation with Eurostar, we also want to bring Germany and the UK closer together at high speed. We are convinced of the great potential of such a direct connection. However, this project also shows that new cross-border long-distance services are often only possible through partnerships like this, due to complex framework conditions.’

Eurostar and DB have signed a memorandum of understanding setting out their intention to explore options for timetables and for terminal facilities which would permit the international border and security controls required for trains to the UK; the need for secure border areas at departure stations has been a major stumbling block for past ambitions to launch new train services to the UK.

The operators welcomed the ‘strong political support’ reflected in the Treaty on Friendship & Bilateral Co-operation signed on July 17 2025, in which the UK and Germany committed to ‘seek to facilitate direct long distance rail passenger services between their countries’.

The relevant ministries of both countries have set up a task force to address the political challenges involved, especially regarding entry formalities and the necessary infrastructure and intergovernmental agreements. This met for the first time in Berlin on November 25.


German Federal Minister of Transport Patrick Schnieder said the task force is ‘already working intensively on the legal, infrastructural and political requirements’ for the proposed service, saying ‘I very much welcome that the companies involved are now taking up this thread. I am certain that this project will be a great benefit for all rail passengers throughout Europe.’

UK Secretary of State for Transport Heidi Alexander said ‘I am delighted that following productive discussions with my German counterpart in the summer, we are speeding ahead with our ambitions to change how millions of people travel between our two countries. A direct rail link will support the creation of jobs, strengthen vital trade links and build a sustainable connection that will make international travel easier and greener.’

While Sky note Berlin has been ruled out at least for now:

What about Berlin?

Nothing was announced for a direct service to Berlin on Thursday, despite Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander singling out the benefits and prospect of journeys from London to the German capital in July.

"The Brandenburg Gate, the Berlin Wall and Checkpoint Charlie - in just a matter of years, rail passengers in the UK could be able to visit these iconic sights direct from the comfort of a train, thanks to a direct connection linking London and Berlin," she said at the time.

Shorter journeys, like those to Frankfurt and Cologne, are seen as more commercially viable than the current 10-hour train journey time to Berlin.

Market studies conducted by Eurostar found travellers are comfortable with international rail journeys of up to six hours.

"Our research indicates that many would choose rail over air for trips within this timeframe," Eurostar told Sky News. "This, combined with strong business and leisure demand on this route, is why we have prioritised London to Frankfurt."

 

[Krokodil]

Berlin was far too ambitious. Frankfurt has the business travel and Cologne is a useful hub for connecting to everywhere else in Germany. No need to complicate the service beyond those two. Having to change at both Brussels and Cologne as one currently has to when going to other destinations in Germany is a stressful pain in the posterior given DB's punctuality record.

 

[Mikey C]

Berlin is way too far, and not actually that important a destination anyway, when compared to Frankfurt.

 

[Sorcerer]

I expect any of these new services to Frankfurt via Cologne would be an extension of a Brussels service much like the Amsterdam trains are and could potentially even connect or split. A lot of that would be banking of Avelia Horizons getting approved for use in the Channel Tunnel though because otherwise you won't be getting a train to and from London. The 373s will be gone by then, and the 374s can't run on Germany's 15kV 16.Hz voltage.

 

[TheWierdOne]

I expect any of these new services to Frankfurt via Cologne would be an extension of a Brussels service much like the Amsterdam trains are and could potentially even connect or split. A lot of that would be banking of Avelia Horizons getting approved for use in the Channel Tunnel though because otherwise you won't be getting a train to and from London. The 373s will be gone by then, and the 374s can't run on Germany's 15kV 16.Hz voltage.

Why are people so hung up on the Avelias getting approval? Eurostar would have to be monumentally stupid to order rolling stock that they weren’t certain beyond reasonable doubt would meet Channel Tunnel safety standards.

 

[Class73Electro]

Why are people so hung up on the Avelias getting approval? Eurostar would have to be monumentally stupid to order rolling stock that they weren’t certain beyond reasonable doubt would meet Channel Tunnel safety standards.

I think its because so far there's been no word on how they are getting round the issue of the currently known safety rule of regarding train length. The only way I could possibly see it happening (assuming no rule changes) would be only running as 200m sets, and making sure in an a emergency they stop at specific spots near to the exits - same as only one 395 can use the Shakespeare tunnel at Dover.

 

[zwk500]

I think its because so far there's been no word on how they are getting round the issue of the currently known safety rule of regarding train length.

Does this rule still exist? Last time I looked at the IGC requirements it did not specify a minimum length for the trains, and in looking through the relevant TSI's there was also no general requirement for a minimum length.

The IGC Requirements currently state that Channel Tunnel Trains should be rated for 30 minutes running when on fire in order to allow them to proceed out of the tunnel and then evacuate to the open air. Alternatively, they can be rated for 15 minutes fire protection and must demonstrate they can perform a full train evacuation to the service tunnel within this period.

The relevant documents are all on the IGC website.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Presumably Cologne Messe / Deutz is going to have to be used because of platform occupancy / border control issues at the Hbf?

 

[Class73Electro]

Does this rule still exist? Last time I looked at the IGC requirements it did not specify a minimum length for the trains, and in looking through the relevant TSI's there was also no general requirement for a minimum length.

The IGC Requirements currently state that Channel Tunnel Trains should be rated for 30 minutes running when on fire in order to allow them to proceed out of the tunnel and then evacuate to the open air. Alternatively, they can be rated for 15 minutes fire protection and must demonstrate they can perform a full train evacuation to the service tunnel within this period.

The relevant documents are all on the IGC website.

OK thats fair then. Maybe it has changed.

 

[TheWierdOne]

Does this rule still exist? Last time I looked at the IGC requirements it did not specify a minimum length for the trains, and in looking through the relevant TSI's there was also no general requirement for a minimum length.

The IGC Requirements currently state that Channel Tunnel Trains should be rated for 30 minutes running when on fire in order to allow them to proceed out of the tunnel and then evacuate to the open air. Alternatively, they can be rated for 15 minutes fire protection and must demonstrate they can perform a full train evacuation to the service tunnel within this period.

The relevant documents are all on the IGC website.

Yes according to Jon Worth, the regulations are now concerned with the timings and door spacings, not the train length. He has been arguing the Avelia might not be approved due to some relatively eccentric door positioning on the end passenger cars, but I would still argue that Eurostar must be very confident of getting these things approved, or have incorporated design changes that aren't yet public.

 

[Sorcerer]

Why are people so hung up on the Avelias getting approval? Eurostar would have to be monumentally stupid to order rolling stock that they weren’t certain beyond reasonable doubt would meet Channel Tunnel safety standards.

Perhaps Eurostar could bank on the idea that if the fleets weren't approved for Channel Tunnel usage then they could just as easily cascade them to the continental services, and indeed some will already be replacing the PBA sets along with the 373s. I'm mostly getting my information from Jon Worth talking about train length requirements though.

The IGC Requirements currently state that Channel Tunnel Trains should be rated for 30 minutes running when on fire in order to allow them to proceed out of the tunnel and then evacuate to the open air. Alternatively, they can be rated for 15 minutes fire protection and must demonstrate they can perform a full train evacuation to the service tunnel within this period.

Wasn't the practice of running to the other side abandoned after the 1996 fire?

 

[Schweir]

Would the border controls be in Germany, or Brussels (or even Lille / London)?

 

[zwk500]

Wasn't the practice of running to the other side abandoned after the 1996 fire?

I'm only stating what's written down in the regs available online. I have no access to current Getlink Operating Rulebooks or instructions.

Would the border controls be in Germany, or Brussels (or even Lille / London)?

That probably hasn't yet been finalised, although it's a straight fight between Germany and Brussels. The UK Government wouldn't accept a train stopping at Brussels and not being checked, and I imagine these services will try very hard not to stop at Lille.
It may be that border controls follow the pattern of the Amsterdam services and start by being run as London - Germany direct but then you are forced to change at Brussels and it is treated as a new secure service. Then, once the terminals are ready in Cologne and Frankfurt the services can be used as through services towards London.

 

[TheWierdOne]

It may be that border controls follow the pattern of the Amsterdam services and start by being run as London - Germany direct but then you are forced to change at Brussels and it is treated as a new secure service. Then, once the terminals are ready in Cologne and Frankfurt the services can be used as through services towards London.

This or a permanent Brussels-Shuffle (try saying that quickly) is the most likely option. As an aside do we know if German law permits a foreign law enforcement agency to operate on German soil, and also to designate German soil as part of the UK for immigration purposes?

 

[SynthD]

Would the border controls be in Germany, or Brussels (or even Lille / London)?

They’d have to be at both German stations for the fast and regular experience of (edit: was poorly worded) the setup we are familiar with.

As an aside do we know if German law permits a foreign law enforcement agency to operate on German soil, and also to designate German soil as part of the UK for immigration purposes?

Considering the ongoing UK-German task force, I think the first part is either possible or will become possible. What does the second do? It sounds the opposite of juxtaposed controls.

 

[Amalie]

This or a permanent Brussels-Shuffle (try saying that quickly) is the most likely option. As an aside do we know if German law permits a foreign law enforcement agency to operate on German soil, and also to designate German soil as part of the UK for immigration purposes?

Back when they were setting things up for the Dutch service, I recall that they introduced a Dutch law allowing the current legal border arrangement to work. I presume that something similar would be required to set up the German service.

 

[zwk500]

As an aside do we know if German law permits a foreign law enforcement agency to operate on German soil, and also to designate German soil as part of the UK for immigration purposes?

Probably not, but then all 4 current Eurostar juxtaposed countries did not have any such provision in their laws until needing to operate juxtaposed controls for the fixed link.

In 2020 the Netherlands was added into the Juxtaposed controls agreement: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/916/pdfs/uksiem_20200916_en.pdf, which has various national laws and international agreements governing the arrangements.

6. Legislative Context
6.1 Section 11 of the Channel Tunnel Act 1987 provides that the appropriate Minister may by order make provision as appears to him to be necessary or expedient with respect to controls in relation to persons or goods at authorised terminal control points outside the tunnel system for trains on international services. These instruments make the necessary provisions relating to border controls on persons travelling between the UK and the Netherlands using the Channel Fixed Link.
6.2 Various international agreements and arrangements currently govern that route as far as Brussels Midi station in Belgium, including the Tripartite Agreement (and the Protocol to that Agreement), administrative arrangements made pursuant to that instrument in 2004 and 2007 and a 2013 bilateral Agreement between the UK and Belgium. These taken together provide the basis for juxtaposed controls in respect of trains travelling between Belgium and the UK via the Channel Tunnel. The Tripartite Agreement will be amended and supplemented by the Quadripartite Agreement and will provide a legal basis for the exercise of border controls on all UK bound rail passengers travelling via the Channel Fixed Link from international rail stations in the Netherlands and Belgium. The Sangatte Protocol and the Additional Protocol to the Sangatte Protocol, and arrangements made thereunder, make separate provision for international trains travelling via the Channel Fixed Link that originate or terminate in France.
6.3 The Quadripartite Agreement Order and the Netherlands Extension Order will be laid together before Parliament and will bring into force domestically the provisions set out in the Bilateral Agreement in relation to the exercise of border controls on rail traffic between the UK and the Netherlands. These Orders will allow for the exercise of border controls by British officers in the Netherlands.

 

[Sorcerer]

I'm only stating what's written down in the regs available online. I have no access to current Getlink Operating Rulebooks or instructions.

I mean both could be true in all fairness, they might still require trains to be able to run through to the end if for whatever reason they cannot be brought to a stand inside the tunnel. But for most modern train designs I expect the issue relating to fire safety would be evacuation over actual fireproofing like with the Avelia Horizon's door placements. Though perhaps fireproofing will be extra important for a bi-level unit due to the inevitably longer evacuation time.

 

[MatthewHutton]

Berlin was far too ambitious. Frankfurt has the business travel and Cologne is a useful hub for connecting to everywhere else in Germany. No need to complicate the service beyond those two. Having to change at both Brussels and Cologne as one currently has to when going to other destinations in Germany is a stressful pain in the posterior given DB's punctuality record.

Is there even capacity for more trains at Frankfurt Hbf given it’s reliability issues as it stands?

Personally I would like to see Brussels-Munich or something before London-Frankfurt.

 

[kevin_roche]

Is there even capacity for more trains at Frankfurt Hbf given it’s reliability issues as it stands?

Would it make more sense to terminate at Frankfurt Main?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Would it make more sense to terminate at Frankfurt Main?

I think you are getting confused

Main is the river upon which Frankfurt stands. (Frankfurt am Main).
Main in German is Haupt (Hauptbahnhof is main station).

 

[kevin_roche]

I think you are getting confused

Main is the river upon which Frankfurt stands. (Frankfurt am Main).
Main in German is Haupt (Hauptbahnhof is main station).

No I'm not confused, though maybe I have name slightly wrong. I am referring to the station at the airport, which I used to use frequently when I worked in Germany.

 

[Tester]

No I'm not confused, though maybe I have name slightly wrong. I am referring to the station at the airport, which I used to use frequently when I worked in Germany.

That would be Frankfurt Flughafen Fernbahnhof, which has only four platforms and is intensively used.

 

[Trainbike46]

No I'm not confused, though maybe I have name slightly wrong. I am referring to the station at the airport, which I used to use frequently when I worked in Germany.

The station at the Airport is called "Frankfurt am Main Flughafen Fernbahnhof"

The station in the city is called "Frankfurt (Main) Hauptbahnhof"

The reason for the mention of the river Main in both is to avoid confusion with the station in Frankfurt an der Oder, known as "Frankfurt (Oder)"

 

[Tester]

The station at the Airport is called "Frankfurt am Main Flughafen Fernbahnhof"

The station in the city is called "Frankfurt (Main) Hauptbahnhof"

The reason for the mention of the river Main in both is to avoid confusion with the station in Frankfurt an der Ober, known as "Frankfurt (Ober)"

Oder

 

[Trainbike46]

Oder

Thanks for pointing that out, original post now corrected

 

[quantinghome]

Berlin is way too far, and not actually that important a destination anyway, when compared to Frankfurt.

It says something about the European high speed rail network that we consider Berlin to be way too far. In fact the straight line distance from Lille to Berlin is around 100km less than Lille to Marseille. We wouldn't consider Marseille to be too far - indeed Eurostar has run there in the past. The difference, obviously, is that it's high speed rail the whole way to Marseille but a real patchwork to Berlin.

 

[TheWierdOne]

It says something about the European high speed rail network that we consider Berlin to be way too far. In fact the straight line distance from Lille to Berlin is around 100km less than Lille to Marseille. We wouldn't consider Marseille to be too far - indeed Eurostar has run there in the past. The difference, obviously, is that it's high speed rail the whole way to Marseille but a real patchwork to Berlin.

If and when the Germans finally get their act together (which to be honest is only marginally better than us), Berlin would be eminently achievable by direct HSR, for now Frankfurt and Cologne would be more realistic