West Midlands Trains "Destination Manchester" - will it happen?

[SeanM1997]

Destination Manchester

Read our exciting proposal for our trains to begin serving Manchester for the first time.

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

As a progressive rail operator, we’re always looking to develop our services and timetables to provide a better travelling experience for our customers. We are ambitious and our team seek innovative solutions to create new journey opportunities.
That's why we have developed proposals for our trains to begin serving Manchester Airport for the first time. The plans would provide direct connectivity between the West Midlands and Manchester Airport, including new stations at Darlaston and Willenhall.

The plan will deliver:​

• An hourly Manchester Airport to Crewe service, calling at Styal and Wilmslow and continuing from Crewe to Birmingham New Street.
• Direct connectivity between Manchester Airport to more destinations including Stoke on Trent and Stafford, as well as Willenhall, Darlaston and Birmingham without the need to take up additional network capacity.
• Better use of the existing southbound train that is currently a stopping service only as far as Crewe where passengers need to interchange for other destinations.
• A great alternative to private car and an affordable new rail option.

What happens next?​

We will submit our detailed proposals to the Office for Rail and Road for consideration in the second half of 2025. In the meantime we are working closely with other train operators, Network Rail and partners in the Manchester area to iron out the finer details of the proposal. If approval is granted we would plan to begin running trains from December 2026.

What is unclear is if this service will replace the Northern service between Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport - Crewe which allows Northern to offer 2 trains an hour between Crewe and Manchester, and a total of 4 trains an hour on the corridor. If this is to go, it would mean stations such as Didsbury lose their southbound connectivity and Sandbach & Holmes Chapel reduce from 2 to 1 train an hour which would be undesirable.

Also mentions calling at Willenhall and Darleston - but given the constraints at Wolverhampton North Junction, I wonder if this will use the bypass loop instead and avoid Wolverhampton. If not, then the Shrewsbury service will alter yet again.

Finally Manchester Victoria has been removed as a destination so the London - Crewe service likely to remain as is

 

[Kite159]

If not, then the Shrewsbury service will alter yet again.

Not such a bad thing considering the time penalty going to Birmingham via Tame Bridge compared to via Smethwick.

So the current Crewe - Stafford shuttle extending back to Birmingham (via Tame Bridge) and at the Crewe end extending towards Manchester Airport? Can't help thinking that Crewe is already busy as it is without the service from Kidsgrove leaving the bays 2-4 to use either platform 1 or 5 (or at a push platform 6 but that would involve crossing over the WCML fast lines twice)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Destination Manchester

Read our exciting proposal for our trains to begin serving Manchester for the first time.

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

What is unclear is if this service will replace the Northern service between Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport - Crewe which allows Northern to offer 2 trains an hour between Crewe and Manchester, and a total of 4 trains an hour on the corridor. If this is to go, it would mean stations such as Didsbury lose their southbound connectivity and Sandbach & Holmes Chapel reduce from 2 to 1 train an hour which would be undesirable.

Does this proposal affect the plans of Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham to bring certain Northern Trains rail services into the Bee Network master overall plan?

 

[The Mercian]

Does this proposal affect the plans of Greater Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham to bring certain Northern Trains rail services into the Bee Network master overall plan?

I doubt it as it’s an inter regional service. Though as posters above explain it may impact local NW services.

It would be great if this service could go into Manchester but with current constraints in Central Manchester that’s a complete no go.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

Destination Manchester

Read our exciting proposal for our trains to begin serving Manchester for the first time.

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

What is unclear is if this service will replace the Northern service between Manchester Piccadilly - Manchester Airport - Crewe which allows Northern to offer 2 trains an hour between Crewe and Manchester, and a total of 4 trains an hour on the corridor. If this is to go, it would mean stations such as Didsbury lose their southbound connectivity and Sandbach & Holmes Chapel reduce from 2 to 1 train an hour which would be undesirable.

Also mentions calling at Willenhall and Darleston - but given the constraints at Wolverhampton North Junction, I wonder if this will use the bypass loop instead and avoid Wolverhampton. If not, then the Shrewsbury service will alter yet again.

Finally Manchester Victoria has been removed as a destination so the London - Crewe service likely to remain as is

I read it as being in addition to the current service but as you say it’s not clear. There’s currently 2 fast services per hour (Avanti and TfW) along with the 2 tph for Northern, surely there’s room for another train which only goes into the airport?

 

[The Planner]

Not such a bad thing considering the time penalty going to Birmingham via Tame Bridge compared to via Smethwick.

So the current Crewe - Stafford shuttle extending back to Birmingham (via Tame Bridge) and at the Crewe end extending towards Manchester Airport? Can't help thinking that Crewe is already busy as it is without the service from Kidsgrove leaving the bays 2-4 to use either platform 1 or 5 (or at a push platform 6 but that would involve crossing over the WCML fast lines twice)

It would use 1.

 

[lowe1409]

it would mean stations such as Didsbury lose their southbound connectivity and Sandbach & Holmes Chapel reduce from 2 to 1 train an hour which would be undesirable.

Can you say the current though service is particularly useful though as is? Heading northbound from Wilmslow towards Manchester, the train has a 15 minute dwell at the airport which makes short journeys such as Wilmslow to Heald green 30 minutes. Surely a well timed connection could be better if not compatible than the existing service?

It could also maybe allow the alderly edge terminator to extend to Crewe to provide 2tph service still to sandbach and Holmes chapel still providing a closer to clockface pattern heading southbound as opposed to the existing 15/45 roughly split between services.

If it was to replace the existing northern service, the biggest loss I feel would be the lack of a second hourly service from the airport southbound to the likes of Wilmslow/Crewe increasing connections and potentially reducing crowding on Piccadilly p13/14 for people traveling towards London/east Midlands/south wales

 

[Efini92]

It would use 1.

Is there a path even available on the styal line?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can you say the current though service is particularly useful though as is? Heading northbound from Wilmslow towards Manchester, the train has a 15 minute dwell at the airport which makes short journeys such as Wilmslow to Heald green 30 minutes. Surely a well timed connection could be better if not compatible than the existing service?

I think that people should be aware of the passenger loadings at Mauldeth Road, Burnage, East Didsbury, Gatley and Heald Green (all railway stations within Greater Manchester) who find rail services useful, instead of seeing Wilmslow as a destination, which can also be accessed via services through Stockport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

Is there a path even available on the styal line?

What is the current Styal Line freight train service frequency and are there any plans to change it in the near future?

 

[lowe1409]

I think that people should be aware of the passenger loadings at Mauldeth Road, Burnage, East Didsbury and Heald Green (all railway stations within Greater Manchester) who find rail services useful, instead of seeing Wilmslow as a destination, which can also be accessed via services through Stockport.

sure Wilmslow might be accessible via Stockport but for stations along this line, that's of no use as the connection time becomes significantly longer. Wilmslow isn't just a destination, it can be a useful interchange too if services are timed properly. It can provide connections for Avanti+TfW plus if it was timed slightly better, there's a decent connection for people traveling towards Stockport too. At present, the southbound arrival from the airport is timed to arrive at xx.09 at p2 with the xx.13 Piccadilly via Stockport stopper at P3. An easy cross platform interchange for Stockport that will be quicker than via Piccadilly. Just a shame the timings are so tight.

 

[Efini92]

What is the current Styal Line freight train service frequency and are there any plans to change it in the near future?

I think it’s 1 an hour in each direction. I did hear a rumour that Trafford park was closing. But I’ve never seen anything to corroborate that.

 

[The Planner]

Is there a path even available on the styal line?

If you look at a random off peak hour at Crewe the Northern to Manchester via the Airport goes at xx.16 off P1. The LNWR arrives at xx.24. You are going to have to go at xx.33 behind the TfW as you don't have the margin in front of the up Manchester Euston. That gives you the gap before the Northern arrives at xx.39. The down freight path is going to get knocked from Chelford but I don't see that as insurmountable. If you are back timing to meet the xx.33 departure on the up then you are probably going to have to be out at Wilmslow in front of the up Manchester Euston again and get out earlier so you don't hit the northbound service at Crewe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2025 ==

I think it’s 1 an hour in each direction. I did hear a rumour that Trafford park was closing. But I’ve never seen anything to corroborate that.

Trafford Park is years away from moving to Parkside/Port Salford.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

sure Wilmslow might be accessible via Stockport but for stations along this line, that's of no use as the connection time becomes significantly longer. Wilmslow isn't just a destination, it can be a useful interchange too if services are timed properly. It can provide connections for Avanti+TfW plus if it was timed slightly better, there's a decent connection for people traveling towards Stockport too. At present, the southbound arrival from the airport is timed to arrive at xx.09 at p2 with the xx.13 Piccadilly via Stockport stopper at P3. An easy cross platform interchange for Stockport that will be quicker than via Piccadilly. Just a shame the timings are so tight.

Not disagreeing with what you say, but the extended period station stay at Manchester Airport has to be understood as important for connections from there to places far afield. That is the price that must be paid by commuters travelling from Manchester to Wilmslow using the Styal Line. Speaking as one whose local station of Heald Green sees commuters from the Manchester area to the local business parks on the Heald Green/Wythenshawe border.

 

[Efini92]

If you look at a random off peak hour at Crewe the Northern to Manchester via the Airport goes at xx.16 off P1. The LNWR arrives at xx.24. You are going to have to go at xx.33 behind the TfW as you don't have the margin in front of the up Manchester Euston. That gives you the gap before the Northern arrives at xx.39. The down freight path is going to get knocked from Chelford but I don't see that as insurmountable. If you are back timing to meet the xx.33 departure on the up then you are probably going to have to be out at Wilmslow in front of the up Manchester Euston again and get out earlier so you don't hit the northbound service at Crewe.

That seems quite tight.

Trafford Park is years away from moving to Parkside/Port Salford.

Ah is that what the long term plan is? I’m surprised nothing has ever been built at parkside before, given its access to the Wcml and motorway network.

 

[lowe1409]

Not disagreeing with what you say, but the extended period station stay at Manchester Airport has to be understood as important for connections from there to places far afield. That is the price that must be paid by commuters travelling from Manchester to Wilmslow using the Styal Line. Speaking as one whose local station of Heald Green sees commuters from the Manchester area to the local business parks on the Heald Green/Wythenshawe border.

Sorry if I misunderstood what you meant, but how does the extended dwell at the airport benefit connections? The long dwell is on the northbound service and I didn't think that changes were possible there due to double back rules.

If you look at a random off peak hour at Crewe the Northern to Manchester via the Airport goes at xx.16 off P1. The LNWR arrives at xx.24. You are going to have to go at xx.33 behind the TfW as you don't have the margin in front of the up Manchester Euston. That gives you the gap before the Northern arrives at xx.39. The down freight path is going to get knocked from Chelford but I don't see that as insurmountable. If you are back timing to meet the xx.33 departure on the up then you are probably going to have to be out at Wilmslow in front of the up Manchester Euston again and get out earlier so you don't hit the northbound service at Crewe

What would the odds be of completely retiming the existing lnwr service be? I believe that the single line section towards alsager could be problematic.

 

[Farigiraf]

Also mentions calling at Willenhall and Darleston - but given the constraints at Wolverhampton North Junction, I wonder if this will use the bypass loop instead and avoid Wolverhampton. If not, then the Shrewsbury service will alter yet again.

Couldn't both the Shrewsbury and Manchester Airport services call at them? 3-4tph would certainly be justified from Willenhall and Darlaston as population density is quite high in the surrounding area.

 

[The Planner]

That seems quite tight.

ECML Dec 25 says hello.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2025 ==

What would the odds be of completely retiming the existing lnwr service be? I believe that the single line section towards alsager could be problematic.

Its possible, depends on if the retiming of the EMR in December messes it up.

 

[SeanM1997]

Any loss of Sandbach/Holmes Chapel/Alderley Edge - Manchester Airport will be a loss but potentially the wider benefits would be greater. The loss of connectivity from South Manchester (Didsbury, Gatley etc.) to Crewe will reduce connectivity and could lead to more pressure on Manchester Piccadilly as a connecting station instead of Crewe.

Based on passenger numbers, it would be a shame if Sandbach/Holmes Chapel drop below 2 trains an hour or Alderley Edge below 3 trains an hour.

Northern's Manchester Piccadilly xx:38 - Alderley Edge xx:07 / Alderley Edge xx:33 - Manchester Piccadilly xx:02 could be extended to Crewe but it may sit too close to the Avanti service in both directions. It may need a complete recast.

Crewe dropping below 4 an hour would also harm travellers; whilst Northern does get overtaken it starts at Crewe so is a viable option for commuters who want a guaranteed seat vs TfW which comes from a further distance.

Personally, I think the ideal solution would be:
1 LNWR Birmingham - Manchester Airport
1 Avanti London - Manchester Piccadilly
1 TfW South Wales - Manchester Piccadilly
2 Northern Crewe - Manchester Piccadilly via Stockport

Which would also allow Bee Network to coordinate a consistent half-hourly all-stopper service between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport, but the lack of southbound connectivity would be missed.

 

[AndrewE]

Personally, I think the ideal solution would be:
1 LNWR Birmingham - Manchester Airport
1 Avanti London - Manchester Piccadilly
1 TfW South Wales - Manchester Piccadilly
2 Northern Crewe - Manchester Piccadilly via Stockport

Which would also allow Bee Network to coordinate a consistent half-hourly all-stopper service between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport, but the lack of southbound connectivity would be missed.

Isn't that almost the current service but with the airport semi-fast coming from Brum?
A second train per hour from Crewe (through from or with connections from the wider area to the south) to the airport would be very welcome, I don't see the need for a second stopper via Stockport.

 

[scrapy]

There are no proposals to make major changes to the Northern service. The LNWR service will be in addition to the current Northern service and will only stop at Wilmslow, Styal and Manchester Airport. The only possible change ive heard about for the northern service is tweaking of the southbound departure times from Manchester Airport and Styal, so the Edinburgh/Glasgow TPE service leaves first from the airport at 01 past, then the Crewe train at 04 past. This should improve reliability of both trains and also the 07 past northbound Crewe to Manchester Picc departure from the airport which would no longer be running on restrictive signals as the TPE in front should be at Gatley when it leaves.

 

[SeanM1997]

There are no proposals to make major changes to the Northern service. The LNWR service will be in addition to the current Northern service and will only stop at Wilmslow, Styal and Manchester Airport. The only possible change ive heard about for the northern service is tweaking of the southbound departure times from Manchester Airport and Styal, so the Edinburgh/Glasgow TPE service leaves first from the airport at 01 past, then the Crewe train at 04 past. This should improve reliability of both trains and also the 07 past northbound Crewe to Manchester Picc departure from the airport which would no longer be running on restrictive signals as the TPE in front should be at Gatley when it leaves.

Two trains an hour between Manchester Airport and Crewe would be ideal to boost connectivity and reduce car use to the airport. Hopefully the service will operate later than the existing services as well as on Sundays which may assist in modal shift.

 

[AndrewE]

There are no proposals to make major changes to the Northern service. The LNWR service will be in addition to the current Northern service and will only stop at Wilmslow, Styal and Manchester Airport.

That sounds great, a genuinely (almost!) fast service to the the airport from the south. I wonder whether it will connect into the TPE services to Scotland to give a route (or additional capacity/options) in addition to the hourly (Brum) Crewe - Scotland Avanti trains?

The only possible change ive heard about for the northern service is tweaking of the southbound departure times from Manchester Airport and Styal, so the Edinburgh/Glasgow TPE service leaves first from the airport at 01 past, then the Crewe train at 04 past. This should improve reliability of both trains and also the 07 past northbound Crewe to Manchester Picc departure from the airport which would no longer be running on restrictive signals as the TPE in front should be at Gatley when it leaves.

 

[py_megapixel]

Surprised to hear that the LNWR service is expected to stop in Styal, it's comparatively speaking a tiny place

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Surprised to hear that the LNWR service is expected to stop in Styal, it's comparatively speaking a tiny place

Currently one Northern train per hour at Styal, each way. Not sure about Sundays. A lot more calls than there were only a few years ago. So, which stations will the proposed LNWR service be calling at, other than Crewe, Wilmslow, Styal and Manchester Airport?

 

[Watershed]

Surprised to hear that the LNWR service is expected to stop in Styal, it's comparatively speaking a tiny place

If the path would involve waiting around at Wilmslow or before Heald Green West Jn you may as well stop at Styal.

 

[Farigiraf]

Styal will join the 'villages with an unreasonably good train service' club, alongside the likes of Longcross, Swale and Avoncliff, assuming both Northern and LNR stop there. Much of the village is in green belt land, but given the favourable circumstances (quiet village, 2tph to Manchester with <1h journey times) I'd be surprised if no development happens in the area.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Two trains an hour between Manchester Airport and Crewe would be ideal to boost connectivity and reduce car use to the airport.

Have you ever seen the vast acarage of car parks that surround Manchester Airport and its connection to the M56 motorway? Do you honestly expect that people will change their travel habits to any great extent?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Dec 2025 ==

Styal will join the 'villages with an unreasonably good train service' club, alongside the likes of Longcross, Swale and Avoncliff, assuming both Northern and LNR stop there. Much of the village is in green belt land, but given the favourable circumstances (quiet village, 2tph to Manchester with <1h journey times) I'd be surprised if no development happens in the area.

There are already development plans on the Cheshire East border afoot near to the new A34 road which will obviate the need for such developments in Styal. Remember Styal suffers from noise pollution from the adjacent Manchester Airport.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Will be good to see 350s (again) or 730s in Manchester, ironically sooner than Northern may have had theirs!

 

[Rail Ranger]

Styal has Quarry Bank Mill (a National Trust site) and a women's prison.

 

[43074]

Worth pointing out the LNW Manchester page says this:

Better use of the existing southbound train that is currently a stopping service only as far as Crewe where passengers need to interchange for other destinations.

I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than taking over Crewe to Manchester Airport from Northern, and hence the Styal calls.

 

[lowe1409]

Worth pointing out the LNW Manchester page says this:

I don't see how that can be interpreted as anything other than taking over Crewe to Manchester Airport from Northern, and hence the Styal calls.

Styal I feel is going to be mostly patching reasons as if your gonna have a wait at Wilmslow/Heald green jn you may as well stop there. If they plan to take over the northern service then why the omission of Alderly Edge/Holmes chapel/sandbach?

I wonder when their deadline is to submit proposals to ORR is to get them into the December 2026 timetable? Am I right in saying that they're still yet to submit them?