Merseyrail 777 introduction

[Ellis101]

Does anybody know why it is the 27th of November with 2 weeks to go until the December timetable change and yet Merseyrail's timetable isnt showing here?

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/timetable-changes/

Merseyrail​

Information will be published when available.

I mean, surely not? This is quite ridiculous if so.

 

[jamesst]

Does anybody know why it is the 27th of November with 2 weeks to go until the December timetable change and yet Merseyrail's timetable isnt showing here?

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/travel-information/timetable-changes/

Merseyrail​

Information will be published when available.

I mean surely not? This is quite ridiculous if so.

No idea but theres no change.
The current autumn timetable runs through until January 3rd.

 

[Sam 76]

Further evidence of how far the 777s are coming along reliability wise. Just 1 train fault today across the whole network with all other services minus that 1 running as scheduled.

Would have been unthinkable last year

 

[Mogz]

Hopefully not OT, but given the battery operation to Headbolt Lane, does anyone know if these would get as far as Heswall (last station within the Merseytravel area on the Borderlands Line) or Neston (last station on the Wirral peninsula) on battery, without difficulty?

 

[Djgr]

Hopefully not OT, but given the battery operation to Headbolt Lane, does anyone know if these would get as far as Heswall (last station within the Merseytravel area on the Borderlands Line) or Neston (last station on the Wirral peninsula) on battery, without difficulty?

I don't think this is a problem. The associated problem is whether you can run more trains per hour through the Liverpool Loop.

 

[Statto]

Well this is extremely disappointing. If the intention is now to keep this as the new "normal", how much money has been wasted in training and lineside equipment for SDO at places like Cressington only for it to be given up on? It would certainly seem this is ME just giving up on 8 cars down to HNX.

As for the timetable adjustments to take advantage of the 777 acceleration - there is no advantage anymore. With drivers still taking as long as 10 seconds to release the doors at stations and the absolutely short-sighted decision to have the end coaches built with a single door, any gains from acceleration are wiped out. I daresay things are actually worse.

I quite like the current diagrams, always felt Hunts Cross trains should be to Kirkby/Ormskirk rather than Southport, as Southport branch is heaving throughout the route, think the reason it was Hunts Cross - Southport was the points (or lack of) after Sandhills

I do like the current leaf fall timetable on the Chester line, & that should be kept all year round, trains have been more reliable as they have 12 minute layover at Chester rather than the usual 4 minute layover.

 

[Mogz]

I quite like the current diagrams, always felt Hunts Cross trains should be to Kirkby/Ormskirk rather than Southport, as Southport branch is heaving throughout the route, think the reason it was Hunts Cross - Southport was the points (or lack of) after Sandhills

I do like the current leaf fall timetable on the Chester line, & that should be kept all year round, trains have been more reliable as they have 12 minute layover at Chester rather than the usual 4 minute layover.

Traditionally, since the opening of the link weren’t the services South of Central always Kirkby-Garston and then Kirkby-Hunts Cross.

Just out of interest, when did that change?

 

[Ellis101]

I quite like the current diagrams, always felt Hunts Cross trains should be to Kirkby/Ormskirk rather than Southport, as Southport branch is heaving throughout the route, think the reason it was Hunts Cross - Southport was the points (or lack of) after Sandhills

I do like the current leaf fall timetable on the Chester line, & that should be kept all year round, trains have been more reliable as they have 12 minute layover at Chester rather than the usual 4 minute layover.

I couldn't disagree more Southport - Bootle and Hunts Cross - Liverpool Central has always been the busiest parts of the northern line and the most peak sensitive, hence why southport - hunts cross was always 6 cars in the peak in the 507/508 days.

The reduction to 4 cars on the Hunts Cross branch has made it a much less enjoyable alternative to the car.

Additionally with the current "temporary" timetable the hunts cross branch is every 30 minutes after 8pm and means I have to usually freeze for 30 minutes instead of a much more manageable 15 at night.

 

[kento]

The 25 minute connection at Ormskirk from evening Preston trains needs to be addressed if the change is to be permanent. Northern's timetable needs revision to match the changed timings of Ormskirk trains.

 

[jamesst]

The 25 minute connection at Ormskirk from evening Preston trains needs to be addressed if the change is to be permanent. Northern's timetable needs revision to match the changed timings of Ormskirk trains.

To be fair though the evening Merseyrail times from Ormskirk have barely changed, 06/36 compared to formerly 07/37

 

[Ellis101]

The 25 minute connection at Ormskirk from evening Preston trains needs to be addressed if the change is to be permanent. Northern's timetable needs revision to match the changed timings of Ormskirk trains.

Considering the peak sensitivity of the southport and hunts cross branch I still can never imagine this being a permanent change.

 

[jamesst]

Considering the peak sensitivity of the southport and hunts cross branch I still can never imagine this being a permanent change.

It isn't

 

[Ellis101]

It isn't

What is taking them so long then its been over a year since the temporary timetable has it not? I do wish Merseyrail would give its customers clarification on what on earth is going on.

 

[jamesst]

What is taking them so long then its been over a year since the temporary timetable has it not? I do wish Merseyrail would give its customers clarification on what on earth is going on.

A never ending unit shortage meaning an 8 car cant be released for training and a never ending driver shortage meaning drivers cant be released to train on it being amongst the main issues...

 

[prod_pep]

Traditionally, since the opening of the link weren’t the services South of Central always Kirkby-Garston and then Kirkby-Hunts Cross.

Just out of interest, when did that change?

The switch to linking the Hunts Cross line with Southport on Mondays to Saturdays took place in September 1985, part of a major timetable change across the network. Sunday services had already been Southport to Hunts Cross for some years prior, however.

 

[TheSel]

Considering the peak sensitivity of the southport and hunts cross branch I still can never imagine this being a permanent change.

It isn't

A never ending unit shortage meaning an 8 car cant be released for training and a never ending driver shortage meaning drivers cant be released to train on it being amongst the main issues...

@jamesst - I'm confused. You say the change isn't permanent, but if the shortage of units and drivers is never ending, surely it is [permanent]? Or is there an end in sight to these never ending shortages?

 

[WirralLine]

@jamesst - I'm confused. You say the change isn't permanent, but if the shortage of units and drivers is never ending, surely it is [permanent]? Or is there an end in sight to these never ending shortages?

Presumably meaning its not permanent, but is relying on A- sufficient number of available units for training and B- sufficient number of drivers to cover for training. So nothing can progress until reliability of units improves and enough drivers are available.

 

[jamesst]

Presumably meaning its not permanent, but is relying on A- sufficient number of available units for training and B- sufficient number of drivers to cover for training. So nothing can progress until reliability of units improves and enough drivers are available.

This!
Its not permanent but understandably providing units and drivers for the day to day service will always take priority.

 

[Ellis101]

https://www.merseyrail.org/everton-v-nottingham-forest-travel-information/

I have noticed for the Everton game on Saturday they are completely closing Cressington station and running a shuttle bus to Liverpool South Parkway instead of running a 30 minute 4 car 777 service.

I assume they have received feedback and have realised it is a better use of resources to run a 15 minute 8 car service on the Hunts Cross Branch instead of 2tph 4 car 777s and 2tph 8 car 777s?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Forest might be a specific fixture requiring a tailored solution as services from Nottingham call at Liverpool South Parkway and there will probably be a significant flow of away supporters on that route.

 

[M28361M]

Forest might be a specific fixture requiring a tailored solution as services from Nottingham call at Liverpool South Parkway and there will probably be a significant flow of away supporters on that route.

There is also racing on at Aintree on Saturday so the Ormskirk line will need maximum capacity.

 

[MR-507508]

With the increased number of 8 cars on the Ormskirk line today, the Southport line has the remaining 3 777/1s which are not working on the Headbolt Lane line.

 

[greeny11]

Looks like fun out on the network today - looking at social media, a train had to be taken out of service for a couple of hours due to disorder/vandalism on the Chester/Ellesmere Port line, signalling issues on the West Kirby/New Brighton line, and again, the Northern Line not coping very well with the number of people using the line with Everton at home and Aintree races. The Southport line appears to be the biggest cause of complaints, with only 2 8-cars operating on the line, with 6 8-cars on the Ormskirk line.

 

[Vinnym]

Bit crazy having racing at Aintree and Everton playing at home on the same afternoon. However disorder on the Chester line and signalling problems on West Kirkby isn’t really a 777 problem.

 

[greeny11]

Merseyrail really needs more units, but that's not something that can be solved (immediately). Southport and Ormskirk lines should both be mostly/all 8-cars, but that's not going to happen unless you take units away from another line.

Edit: Got my Aintree days mixed up, the rugby league feels like last week! My point about needing more units still stands though IMO.

 

[Vinnym]

There was no racing at Aintree last week, the last meeting at Aintree coincided with the Rugby League international at Everton.

 

[Djgr]

There are few, if any, weekends when Liverpool isn't busy because of one thing or another. This is the reality that the local rail network needs to support.

 

[WirralLine]

Not helped by units off with faults/awaiting parts.

004 the long term parts donor, 047, 007(?), possibly others too not sure.

The introduction of 777s hasnt helped future proof the network for growing demand/increased population. One could argue there weren't enough 507/8s, letalone ordering less replacements.

Yes I know the idea was faster trains with less dwell time so units spared, but in reality that is a pipe dream.

 

[Ianigsy]

There was also a diagram missing on the New Brighton line around lunchtime/early afternoon.

The effects on the wider network of the new Everton stadium still have to work their way through the system, not least in terms of ticket office capacity - it’s unusual to see a queue at Birkenhead North, but at about 12.30 there were two or three groups of Evertonians and a family of 5 going to the Christmas markets. Not all of them got on the next train.

 

[Kite159]

There was also a diagram missing on the New Brighton line around lunchtime/early afternoon.

The effects on the wider network of the new Everton stadium still have to work their way through the system, not least in terms of ticket office capacity - it’s unusual to see a queue at Birkenhead North, but at about 12.30 there were two or three groups of Evertonians and a family of 5 going to the Christmas markets. Not all of them got on the next train.

If only there was a technology which would allow passengers to book tickets online and have them available to display on a device like a phone to cut down queues at ticket offices...

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As for 777s, I would agree, more should have been ordered to cope with growth (or go down the fixed formation 120 metre long stock route