Passengers locked inside Hartlepool station

[ainsworth74]

not at all - I simply state that I would take responsibility for myself and get out via the fire escape. I wouldn't wander around looking lost waiting for someone to hold my hand!

And if the fire escapes are locked up because the station itself has been locked up? You're assuming that there was an available exit and that the passengers didn't already try that option. Indeed considering there was a driver and conductor on the scene I would have thought they at least would have also had a similar thought but found themselves with no way to allow their passengers to exit the station.

It's easy to just assume that the passengers must be sheep but you have no-way of knowing that there were any available exits in a building that had been secured for the night.

 

[43096]

So you want to discipline staff for leaving work on time? Is it their fault the train ran late? Do you know the member of staffs circumstances on why they had to leave on time? Did they go through the proper reporting process only for it to break down further up the chain?
Yet again, trial by Social Media before any facts are actually made clear.
Absolute nonsense.

So you must have missed this bit:

One passenger reported that her teenage daughters, who were waiting on the platform for her arrival, approached the male key holder to ask how their mother would be able to exit the station when he was locking up.

However, the key holder reportedly offered no response and proceeded to secure the building, leaving passengers trapped inside as the station lights suddenly went out. He later asked why they didn’t tell him.

So not disciplined for leaving work on time, but for rank incompetence. As a starting point they don’t seem to be fit to be a keyholder.

 

[bramling]

Or said member of staff was past their rostered hours and for personal reasons, refused to work on.

Which is fine, but it isn’t a good look that the member of staff (allegedly) offered “no response” when someone queried what was going to happen with the last train.

It’s one thing going home, but one would expect the member of staff to have made some kind of arrangement beforehand.

The sorry paints a picture of “not my problem”. Perhaps the story is inaccurate, but if it is accurate then it isn’t good.

 

[Rab Smith]

In that case, the station shouldn't have been locked that night.

Which in itself would have been a dereliction of duty that could have resulted in disciplinary action.
See how this works..........?

 

[tumbledown]

I put a photo of the source in terms of the Facebook article within my post. The 'Incidents on Teesside and County Durham' Facebook page reproduces articles from other local media. In this case unfortunately it did not give the original source this was taken from. However, it appeared to have sufficient detail to be credible.

It was just an observation, in the absence of a link to a public website. There's still no coverage on a public website AFAICT.

 

[DarloRich]

And if the fire escapes are locked up because the station itself has been locked up? You're assuming that there was an available exit and that the passengers didn't already try that option. Indeed considering there was a driver and conductor on the scene I would have thought they at least would have also had a similar thought but found themselves with no way to allow their passengers to exit the station.

It's easy to just assume that the passengers must be sheep but you have no-way of knowing that there were any available exits in a building that had been secured for the night.

A fair point - I simply mean that I would take proactive steps to get out and not hang about hoping for help. That might have to involve a 999 call if I couldn't get out via an obvious route. I would, of course, have already tried to summon help by every obvious on station route before doing that.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

[ainsworth74]

A fair point - I simply mean that I would take proactive steps to get out and not hang about hoping for help. That might have to involve a 999 call if I couldn't get out via an obvious route. I would, of course, have already tried to summon help by every obvious on station route before doing that.

That doesn't seem unreasonable.

Indeed and I'm not sure we've seen any suggestion that people didn't take proactive steps to resolve the situation themselves? Indeed the train crew remained on the station for around 30 minutes attempting to sort the issue out themselves with the relevant Control function! Just seems odd to have suggested that people were wandering around waiting for someone to hold their hand when we've not seen any suggestion that this was the case?

 

[ThirteenArches]

Is the rostering at Hartlepool arranged on the basis that trains are always on time? The keyholder's attitude shows how morale of rail staff has declined over the years; the keyholder's complaint would have been to the management via the union once upon a time, not a churlish spite to the travelling public.

The defenders of this man's action show the kind of chauvinistic purblindness that does railways no favour. A public service is just that.

 

[tumbledown]

Perhaps a Stations Without Emergency Exits thread would be useful. Poulton-le-Fylde to start you off.

 

[DarloRich]

Indeed the train crew remained on the station for around 30 minutes attempting to sort the issue out themselves with the relevant Control function!

that is good news - always best to let those in "authority" sort out a problem

 

[blueberry11]

Surely at least two (emergency) exits must be provided unless the building and/or the amount of people present is expected to be small. Even better if one of them is the main entrance and the other is only used for staff and emergencies. And also the requirement for emergency exits to open in the direction of escape.

I do think the last person to leave the building is responsible that everyone has left before locking the front entrance.

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely at least two (emergency) exits must be provided unless the building and/or the amount of people present is expected to be small. Even better if one of them is the main entrance and the other is only used for staff and emergencies. And also the requirement for emergency exits to open in the direction of escape.

To my understanding not if a building is empty such as many buildings would be overnight. I'm sure Hartlepool has emergency exits provided but when the building is being secured overnight, like many buildings, those exits are most likely also secured closed and locked. It will be part of the key holders responsibilities to ensure all those exits are unlocked first thing in the morning as they open the building up.

I do think the last person to leave the building is responsible that everyone has left before locking the front entrance.

Of course when they left the building was empty it's just that a train then rocked up and delivered a bunch of new people...

 

[Peter0124]

Which in itself would have been a dereliction of duty that could have resulted in disciplinary action.
See how this works..........?

They could be given a pass given the circumstances

 

[Russel]

So you want to discipline staff for leaving work on time? Is it their fault the train ran late? Do you know the member of staffs circumstances on why they had to leave on time? Did they go through the proper reporting process only for it to break down further up the chain?
Yet again, trial by Social Media before any facts are actually made clear.
Absolute nonsense.

You know the staff member had circumstances that meant they had to leave early, locking customers inside the station? No, neither of us know the facts, all we have is the initial information in the opening post.

If it is as stated, then yes, disciplinary action should follow.

What exactly would YOU do, in this situation?

The absolute nonsense here is the constant making up of excuses to defend the railways many failings...

 

[Djgr]

Indeed and I'm not sure we've seen any suggestion that people didn't take proactive steps to resolve the situation themselves? Indeed the train crew remained on the station for around 30 minutes attempting to sort the issue out themselves with the relevant Control function! Just seems odd to have suggested that people were wandering around waiting for someone to hold their hand when we've not seen any suggestion that this was the case?

Presumably if the train crew hung around for 30 minutes there couldn't have been an obvious way of exiting?

 

[Mojo]

What exactly would YOU do, in this situation?

lt seems quite clear to me that there were two options if the staff member had to finish on time:

• Control would have arranged for the train to detrain at the penultimate station and run in / out empty, with alternative transport arranged, or
• The staff member would be authorised to leave the station open but unstaffed (and if desired, Control would have arranged for another staff member to travel to the station after the last train had been and gone to check it is clear and lock it up).

 

[RiponHall]

To my understanding not if a building is empty such as many buildings would be overnight. I'm sure Hartlepool has emergency exits provided but when the building is being secured overnight, like many buildings, those exits are most likely also secured closed and locked. It will be part of the key holders responsibilities to ensure all those exits are unlocked first thing in the morning as they open the building up.

Of course when they left the building was empty it's just that a train then rocked up and delivered a bunch of new people...

If the information in the first post is accurate, then the station was locked with the daughters of one of the passengers waiting on the platform - which would suggest that the station was not empty when it was locked. (It is of course possible that the key-holder removed them from the station before locking it, but the statement that the people waiting on the platform for passengers from the train got 'no response' would seem to suggest that was not the case).

 

[harz99]

Interesting one. The booking office area would be long locked and closed at that time of night, as would the main station entrance at the front and the waiting rooms, so would the cafe and the Rat Race pub, the automatic ticket barriers at platform 2 will have been locked open as well going on personal experience, that leaves just the side exit doors from platform 2 which lead to the small bus station next door.

I believe there is only one staff member on duty late at night, probably safely in the small staff office near to the ticket barriers, so locking the side door exit after extinguishing the station lighting and locking the staff room up wouldn't take very long to do. As to fire exits, yes they are present, but on an unlit station with poor exterior lighting I doubt you'd find them very easily, for instance the one off the reinstated platform 3 is at the very front end of the platform at the opposite end to the normal way out via footbridge and lifts.

If the reported account is correct, it would seem that however you look at it the staffer is at fault.

 

[Horizon22]

And if the fire escapes are locked up because the station itself has been locked up? You're assuming that there was an available exit and that the passengers didn't already try that option. Indeed considering there was a driver and conductor on the scene I would have thought they at least would have also had a similar thought but found themselves with no way to allow their passengers to exit the station.

It's easy to just assume that the passengers must be sheep but you have no-way of knowing that there were any available exits in a building that had been secured for the night.

Stations I am aware of have egress from the inside out with no staff intervention. But I appreciate this may not be universal.

 

[dk1]

Much ado about nothing, blown up by Social Media.
What a namby pamby world we now live in.

Everything has to be so dramatic

 

[Qwerty133]

lt seems quite clear to me that there were two options if the staff member had to finish on time:

• Control would have arranged for the train to detrain at the penultimate station and run in / out empty, with alternative transport arranged, or
• The staff member would be authorised to leave the station open but unstaffed (and if desired, Control would have arranged for another staff member to travel to the station after the last train had been and gone to check it is clear and lock it up).

Given the final train terminates at the station in question it would seem that having a key safe containing a spare key for which the guard could obtain a code in the event of the station being locked would have been sufficient to prevent passengers from being trapped.

 

[Horizon22]

Given the final train terminates at the station in question it would seem that having a key safe containing a spare key for which the guard could obtain a code in the event of the station being locked would have been sufficient to prevent passengers from being trapped.

Possibly but normally most stations have a specific way of being closed / checked which needs an element of local orientation. I agree with @Mojo that in the event of the Control team knowing, you would 1) ask the station staff to kindly stay on as O/T. If no, then 2) skip the station. In this case let's say 1) was declined/unavailable and 2) isn't an option (being a terminus) the driver and guard would have to detrain at the penultimate station* and run ECS from there with taxis sourced to the next station.

*Presuming this one is also open and accessible!

 

[ainsworth74]

*Presuming this one is also open and accessible!

Previous station would have been Horden so would have been fully accessible as it's just a set of open platforms. No buildings, gatelines or anything else to worry about!

 

[harz99]

Previous station would have been Horden so would have been fully accessible as it's just a set of open platforms. No buildings, gatelines or anything else to worry about!

And about 8 road miles from Hartlepool with very little chance of getting a taxi at that sort of time unless pre-booked, no local buses nearby, and no bus services to Hartlepool from the nearest stop in Yoden Way (12-15 minute walk) after 22:13, arguably a worse situation than being locked in at Hartlepool...

 

[ainsworth74]

And about 8 road miles from Hartlepool with very little chance of getting a taxi at that sort of time unless pre-booked, no local buses nearby, and no bus services to Hartlepool from the nearest stop in Yoden Way (12-15 minute walk) after 22:13, arguably a worse situation than being locked in at Hartlepool...

Well yes, but the idea in the above scenario was that passengers would be detrained there into taxis arranged by Northern Control rather than to fend for themselves!

 

[Bantamzen]

Which in itself would have been a dereliction of duty that could have resulted in disciplinary action.
See how this works..........?

Which is worse? Locking the station up knowing that a service with passengers still to arrive, or leaving the station unlocked so that said passengers would have a safe way out? Based on what we are lead to understand, the person locking up did so in full knowledge that passengers would arriving later. I'm sorry but if this is the case it is inexcusable, all they had to do was leave it open and perhaps make contact with their chain of command as soon as possible after to advise of their decision.

 

[harz99]

Well yes, but the idea in the above scenario was that passengers would be detrained there into taxis arranged by Northern Control rather than to fend for themselves!

Same thing, not much chance of getting a taxi at Horden unless pre-booked, and I mean several hours before, Northern Control can only work with what is available, and that situation is not much better at Hartlepool either, the local taxi drivers are not keen on late work. Welcome to life outside the big metropolitan cities...

 

[Horizon22]

I'm sorry but if this is the case it is inexcusable, all they had to do was leave it open and perhaps make contact with their chain of command as soon as possible after to advise of their decision.

I imagine the call is made to the Duty Manager in Northern Control, or goes through the stations "on-call" procedure who will then make a risk assessment on the best option.

 

[Bevan Price]

IF the facts above are correct, should the TOC, presumably knowing that their train was running late, have contacted the staff member and asked them either to remain at the station, or to leave the exit unlocked ?

In other circumstances, if the train crew had not been on the station, there are potential Healthy & Safety issues, for example if a passenger was injured by trying to climb over a fence, or walk along the track ?

 

[ainsworth74]

Same thing, not much chance of getting a taxi at Horden unless pre-booked, and I mean several hours before, Northern Control can only work with what is available, and that situation is not much better at Hartlepool either, the local taxi drivers are not keen on late work.

That's not what's been related to me on a previous occasion when it was necessary to arrange taxis to meet a late evening train at Horden. It was very quick to find a couple of taxis to get passengers to their destination.

Welcome to life outside the big metropolitan cities...

Seeing as I live around Redcar I'm well aware of what it's like thank you...