National Express Coaches Discussion

[MotCO]

My longest delay I think was 3 hours late back to Hull due to problems on the M1, though this is as a driver and I suspect isn't what you are looking for

Did you exceed your hours? Did you have to take a statutory break, or what happened?

 

[darloscott]

Most of the original members of the Coach Travel Group weren't bought, it was effectively a merger of about half a dozen operators some of whose owners remained active in their businesses and some of whom are merely shareholders in the combined group. It is only really the later additions that were purchases and in a way we would not be particularly surprised if each of those original operators had bought one of the additions as individual companies (like Skills taking on Redwing), add in some outside investor money and that some of these purchases were probably fire sales (i.e cheaper than they appear) and they probably aren't as stretched as it first appears (though if they keep going at this rate they may hit that at some point).

Even the original members were definitely purchases. I worked for one of them! The MDs are tied in for so many years (5 I think) as part of the deal… there were outside investors behind the whole thing. There has been a huge push for growth and it’s brought some quite good results across the business. Sharing of work around the group has also helped reduce costs.

 

[nick291]

Noticed on Bustimes that there is now a overnight 209 service from Bristol-Gatwick South via Heathrow CBS and Victoria Coach Station. When did this start up?

 

[EYFanatic]

Thats an odd routing in my opinion - must be something in it

 

[Haru]

Noticed on Bustimes that there is now a overnight 209 service from Bristol-Gatwick South via Heathrow CBS and Victoria Coach Station. When did this start up?

July ish, only goes via Victoria on the return trip to Bristol.

 

[PG]

Thats an odd routing in my opinion - must be something in it

Maybe utilising a vehicle and driver that would otherwise be idle for a number of hours and running it as one through service instead of two seperate services?

 

[coach fan]

In coaching, passenger routing pretty much always takes a backseat nowadays. Now the priority is keeping drivers on the road as “efficiently” as possible rather than in a hotel or on layover for longer than is necessary. If that means you go A to B via J, then so be it.

 

[markymark2000]

In coaching, passenger routing pretty much always takes a backseat nowadays. Now the priority is keeping drivers on the road as “efficiently” as possible rather than in a hotel or on layover for longer than is necessary. If that means you go A to B via J, then so be it.

And that is exactly why NatEx is going down the pan. Baffles me which numpties are making such decisions which ultimately are killing the company.

Mobico either want NX to be profitable or they don't. And if they want to kill it off, they need to do so much quicker than they are doing, and save us all the pain of their prolonged managed decline.

 

[nick291]

And that is exactly why NatEx is going down the pan. Baffles me which numpties are making such decisions which ultimately are killing the company.

Mobico either want NX to be profitable or they don't. And if they want to kill it off, they need to do so much quicker than they are doing, and save us all the pain of their prolonged managed decline.

Mobico certainly are choosing the ComfortDelGro strategy of killing off Megabus for National Express and it's difficult to see.

 

[coach fan]

And that is exactly why NatEx is going down the pan. Baffles me which numpties are making such decisions which ultimately are killing the company.

Mobico either want NX to be profitable or they don't. And if they want to kill it off, they need to do so much quicker than they are doing, and save us all the pain of their prolonged managed decline.

Agreed. I mean look at some of the running times of the Stansted services. Nearly three hours on some services to London Victoria. That’s a hard sell and no wonder numbers have dropped. But hey! Drivers are behind the wheel longer. It’s gonna be a long slow painful death for the company if they don’t change course soon. But I think it’s too late now.

 

[nick291]

Agreed. I mean look at some of the running times of the Stansted services. Nearly three hours on some services to London Victoria. That’s a hard sell and no wonder numbers have dropped. But hey! Drivers are behind the wheel longer. It’s gonna be a long slow painful death for the company if they don’t change course soon. But I think it’s too late now.

What Mobico(and to a lesser extent ComfortDelGro when megabus was still around) don't understand is that ultimately fare paying passengers put the money into the running of the coach, drivers wages etc, but who's going to pay when the service is poorly optimized to get them to A to B? Just baffles me they don't think about the passenger first anymore.

 

[Smethwickian]

Agreed. I mean look at some of the running times of the Stansted services. Nearly three hours on some services to London Victoria. That’s a hard sell and no wonder numbers have dropped. But hey! Drivers are behind the wheel longer. It’s gonna be a long slow painful death for the company if they don’t change course soon. But I think it’s too late now.

Stansted A8 services from Victoria are ludicrously slow, trundling their way via stop after stop all the way to Tottenham Hale. And ticketing is a farce, as pre-booking is often pointless as services are regularly filled at busy times with standby pax (with walk-up return portions or unreserved transfers sold by airlines such as Ryanair) by drivers or VCS staff who never check ticket lists and leave no seats for those waiting to board en-route. I would NEVER rely on NX to get me to Stansted on time

 

[Eyersey468]

Did you exceed your hours? Did you have to take a statutory break, or what happened?

I didn't go over my hours though I did have to have a 45 minute break in Leeds and I was only about half an hour off going over the 15 hour working day

 

[Bletchleyite]

Mobico certainly are choosing the ComfortDelGro strategy of killing off Megabus for National Express and it's difficult to see.

The problem is that Flix have never lost, largely because their business model avoids them taking some of the revenue risk.

 

[Simon75]

Hummm I don’t think they actually own Southampton coach station. Last time I checked it was rented from the council. Could’ve changed I guess. But the last time I was down at Southampton which was during the height of Covid, it was most certainly rented from the council.

National express is NOT an asset rich company. Heck even owned ops don’t own the coaches. They are leased. Same with depots etc.

Didn't they buy the former Arriva garage in South Wigston (Leicester) or is that leased ?

 

[Simon75]

A lot of places haven't a National Express route for years. As far as im aware in Essex (apart from Stansted Airport) only services are to Harlow and Colchester . Staffordshire only Stoke-on-Trent is served ( 2 services)

 

[Titfield]

Salisbury did previously have it's own service, running via Andover and Heathrow, with some journeys extending to Yeovil.

I very much doubt that anyone from Bournemouth would want to travel on this routing because of the duration of the journey.

As someone who has travelled from bmth to London Victoria many times over 40 plus years the preferred routing is bmth - Victoria non stop but a pick up : drop off at ringwood is acceptable because the additional time is less than 10 minutes. Ringwood is also a good for patronage as there is no railway station in ringwood. This is the routing of the old 719? Timesaver service of the 1980s.
Going via Heathrow is ok as the additional duration isn’t too bad but can be a bit frustrating if traffic is very heavy around lhr.

 

[gray1404]

Are the 007 and 025 services between London Victoria and Canterbury likely to be under threat of being withdrawn?

 

[dmncf]

The problem is that Flix have never lost, largely because their business model avoids them taking some of the revenue risk.

How different is the FlixBus model from NX's coach operator contractors model?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How different is the FlixBus model from NX's coach operator contractors model?

My understanding is that revenue risk is shared, whereas the impression I had with NatEx (though may be wrong) was that they contracted the operation out but retained revenue risk themselves. And of course NatEx operate some themselves now.

 

[gray1404]

But then NX gets 100% of ticket revenue and pays the operator a few to operate the service. Flix on the other hand retain around 30% with the remaining 70% going to the operator.

 

[dmncf]

I don't understand how a model where the operator is paid a share of the revenue (e.g. 70%) would work if there's overlapping routes. For example, if I am a coach operator and I agree to operate London-Birmingham for 70% of the revenue, and my coaches are nice and busy, what happens if a London-Birmingham-Manchester route is introduced and then my coaches are less busy?

 

[Titfield]

I don't understand how a model where the operator is paid a share of the revenue (e.g. 70%) would work if there's overlapping routes. For example, if I am a coach operator and I agree to operate London-Birmingham for 70% of the revenue, and my coaches are nice and busy, what happens if a London-Birmingham-Manchester route is introduced and then my coaches are less busy?

They may decide to split the revenue on the common section (London to Birmingham) and apportion it according to the mileage operated by each operator.

Agreements like this used to be quite common but it can have risks in that if it overservices the common section both operators lose out.

 

[fjkhhh]

Parks drivers have this afternoon been sent confirmation they are transferring to Edward’s from 1st January

 

[PG]

Parks drivers have this afternoon been sent confirmation they are transferring to Edward’s from 1st January

Thanks for the confirmation - and welcome to the forum

 

[Smethwickian]

Following Mobico's announcement of the merger of UK coach and Alsa divisions, more UK executives are leaving the business at the end of January. Service delivery director Mark Heffernan's responsibilities will go to Alsa maintenance boss Luis Feito and operations boss Javier de los Rios. Commercial director John Broughton also going, 'plans being developed' for his responsibilities.
Digital and marketing director Sarah Rosier left on 1 December with those teams now reporting to Alsa's marketing director Rocio Escondrillas.

 

[coach fan]

Following Mobico's announcement of the merger of UK coach and Alsa divisions, more UK executives are leaving the business at the end of January. Service delivery director Mark Heffernan's responsibilities will go to Alsa maintenance boss Luis Feito and operations boss Javier de los Rios. Commercial director John Broughton also going, 'plans being developed' for his responsibilities.
Digital and marketing director Sarah Rosier left on 1 December with those teams now reporting to Alsa's marketing director Rocio Escondrillas.

Rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic comes to mind. The business is done. Mobico should just do the decent thing and sell the brand like they’ve sold everything else.

 

[Titfield]

Rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic comes to mind. The business is done. Mobico should just do the decent thing and sell the brand like they’ve sold everything else.

It does seem as if the business is imploding somewhat? The constant chopping and changing of routes and timetables destroys public confidence in the business. This is the type of business where you really need a finger or fingers on the pulse.

 

[coach fan]

It does seem as if the business is imploding somewhat? The constant chopping and changing of routes and timetables destroys public confidence in the business. This is the type of business where you really need a finger or fingers on the pulse.

It’s imploding terrible. Safety features gone it the window. I remember when under no circumstances would a coach go out without a working alcolock. Funny how that doesn’t matter when a few pounds can be saved. Controllers don’t care about route cancellations or late running or road closures. Drivers getting lost. Services being cancelled passengers not being told and fighting for refunds. It’s dropped so far it’s quite shocking from what we can see on the outside. No idea what it looks like from the outside. It’s clear Nat ex won’t be around much longer, should Mobico persist to hang on to it.

 

[Titfield]

It’s imploding terrible. Safety features gone it the window. I remember when under no circumstances would a coach go out without a working alcolock. Funny how that doesn’t matter when a few pounds can be saved. Controllers don’t care about route cancellations or late running or road closures. Drivers getting lost. Services being cancelled passengers not being told and fighting for refunds. It’s dropped so far it’s quite shocking from what we can see on the outside. No idea what it looks like from the outside. It’s clear Nat ex won’t be around much longer, should Mobico persist to hang on to it.

This is unbelievable. There is a viable business there but it needs running properly (ie safely, punctually, reliably with good levels of customer service). EDIT and with a low head office overhead.

It may well be that the days of a nationwide network are gone and that Nexp has to concentrate on core routes (the majority of which go to / from London) plus airport services.

Tinternet and apps have delivered big cost savings to Nexp who no longer need a network of travel agents or printed timetables or print marketing.

The routes need good frequencies especially to / from airports where you may be delayed on arrival. Given the growth of low cost airlines and high car parking charges at airports there is a huge market to tap into. Furthermore Rail connections to LHR are very limited and most rail services dont start until too late to get an early flight both of which mean even more passengers who may go by coach. Oh and by the way have you seen the cost of taxis / private hire to most airports?

I was at the Bournemouth Coach Rail interchange last week waiting for a bus and happened to look at the scrolling departures / arrivals. I could not believe there were so few coach services. I did see though a group of about 8 young people board a Flixbus.