London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[AlterEgo]

I have to say, that response from Elaine is quite comprehensive!

I may be persuaded to try a cheap Advance at some point in the next couple of months. I suppose much of my gripe with my journey last week was related to the quality and presentation of the food.

I do really hope EC manage to rectify the outstanding teething problems. I find the Mallard interior to be the most amenable on the network and used to love bashing my way up to Newcastle in the GNER salad days.

 

[Greenback]

I see most of the reasons given by Elaine Holt were down to the crew on the day, which have now been addressed. I hope that behind the scenes she pays as much attention to the management who are responsible for the other failings with the service, like the flawed decisions about the drinks, and the lack of a proper dinner on some of the afternoon Scottish trains.

 

[cuccir]

It seems that one of EC's problems is that they lack contingency plans for when things go wrong: whether it be a missed delivery, a failed supplier, an ill member of staff, etc.

For example, why should an absent chef mean that the crew have access to less kitchen equipment? If this is a danger, maybe a portion of East Coast staff should be trained to use this equipment, to provide emergency cover.

If a newspaper supplier has failed, is it beyond East Coast's ability to walk to the nearest WHSmith's and buy some newspapers? They may end up spending more, but as a temporary measure it prevents their First Class service being limited


These are just a couple of the points. I recognise the reasons that Ms Holt has given and they're all reasonable in and of themselves, but together, and added with other travellers' experiences that have been expressed here, they reveal a service that is being done on the cheap.

 

[amcluesent]

It seems that one of EC's problems is that they lack contingency plans for when things go wrong:

I guess EC ran out of Egg and Bacon today, as contrary to the menu they started the Egg and Cress 'rotation' a day early.

P.S. Has anyone come up with a use for the plastic pots they serve the cheese and dead fly 'nibbles' in. I'm sure there must be some Blue Peter style way of reusing them in the home...

P.P.S Achieved a rare double drinks allocation today after having stopped them on the way back to K. I convinced them that going down and back were two 'runs' of the trolley

 

[Blindtraveler]

fill them with nuts and rasons so when some grumpy *** enforces the 70 minute rule you get more than a cuppa!

 

[Failed Unit]

Crew greeting passengers - I have never had that happen very interesting. I have booked another journey myself in September - so if if is still 2 sandwich quarters.....

 

[Blindtraveler]

what service, wel warn them Mr Units on and that hel give us hell if its bad!

 

[IanXC]

although it may be egg on the face to East Coast.

Powdery scrambled egg presumably?

(Or did I remember that description from another thread)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It seems that one of EC's problems is that they lack contingency plans for when things go wrong

. . . . .

why should an absent chef mean that the crew have access to less kitchen equipment?

Please refrain from corrupting this thread with 'common sense' or any other innovation from the 'can do' culture of 1990's business sucess.
This is East Coast we're discussing. Passenger's notions of good service, good food, good point to point customer care are history. We are facing risk aversion:
Over stocking (in case of failures) is a financial risk. Avoidable.
CSAs using sharp kitchen implements is a litiginous risk. Avoidable.
CSAs carrying hot soup through 3 speeding coaches is a litiginous risk. Avoidable.
Preparing a variation from the proscribed menu is an insurance risk. Avoidable.

[Yes, I know, in the restaurant car days, they only had to carry the soup from kitchen to nearest car, but now, due to Advance ticketing forcing most pax into 'M' then the crew have to (er, would have to, if they still offered dangerous soup) carry it though 3 cars.]

Why can't we see those operators for what they are? They inherited one of the UK's finest traditions and achievments and sold it (for a sum less than the balance of my bank account) to accontants worthy of managing a chain of corner convenience stores. - We'll get nowt. They'll remain terrified of a claim.

BTW Did you hear about the service delayed while the ambulance arrived to take chef to hospital? No? Maybe because it was the sort of minor cut to the finger that we all experience every day, and wouldn't think it worth a comment, but which EC escalated to something worthy of upsetting service delivery to ensure chef was properly cared for.
Or maybe just transferred to another body which is more concerned about its own risk-aversion than it is about customer care or making beds available.

BTW. I'm not angry.
I'm hungry.

 

[sidmouth]

I see most of the reasons given by Elaine Holt were down to the crew on the day, which have now been addressed. I hope that behind the scenes she pays as much attention to the management who are responsible for the other failings with the service, like the flawed decisions about the drinks, and the lack of a proper dinner on some of the afternoon Scottish trains.

Totally agree. Ms Holt's response which was very much a micro analysis and pointing the finger at crew issues and failings on certain services, rather than looking at the wider causes and poor management (and herself included).

 

[Max]

All credit to Elaine Holt, she's obviously taken time out to find out what went wrong and write a comprehensive response. Hopefully, this will lead to changes. But perhaps I am being too hopeful...

 

[sidmouth]

But perhaps I am being too hopeful...

Just a bit...

 

[YorkshireRider]

I havent worked a train in quite a while that has had any stock issues or customer complaints. I like all the hot options on the all day offer, they are good quality but i will agree its more of a snack then a meal (a starter in the old restaurant service). Yes GNER were good and NX carried on with some restaurants and at seat dining but lets not forget EC are only here because of the financial mis-management of Mr Garnett/Bowker and their respective boards. Its not much good having a good catering product if you f**k the rest of the job up im afraid. Mystery shops have started (by an independant company i think) and they claim the feedback has been good with the biggest issue being that certain time trains should have a bit more on offer so hopefully that will be something they will change in the review that is to happen next month

 

[Failed Unit]

I hope we see some improvement soon, we are still getting reports of 2 sandwiches only! If you compare this to airlines would BA downgrade first class so much? No because passengers would go to a competitor. However if they did and it worked (Ba didn't lose customers) then the competitors would still follow - how many airlines offer food on short haul. This is exactly what has happened here, east coast have downgraded to match Virgin. Never used GC but is there offer much better? I think Yorkshire riders analysis is spot on when you look at WSRC.

 

[Blindtraveler]

i'm glad also that through whatever means RG are not creating supply issues at0LDS - We know there must still be some isues in London or anglo scot runs would be offering a bit more but its good to see the service working

 

[StrollerEd]

Thanks, I enjoyed that:

Please refrain from corrupting this thread with 'common sense' or any other innovation from the 'can do' culture of 1990's business sucess.
This is East Coast we're discussing. Passenger's notions of good service, good food, good point to point customer care are history. We are facing risk aversion:
Over stocking (in case of failures) is a financial risk. Avoidable.
CSAs using sharp kitchen implements is a litiginous risk. Avoidable.
CSAs carrying hot soup through 3 speeding coaches is a litiginous risk. Avoidable.
Preparing a variation from the proscribed menu is an insurance risk. Avoidable.

[Yes, I know, in the restaurant car days, they only had to carry the soup from kitchen to nearest car, but now, due to Advance ticketing forcing most pax into 'M' then the crew have to (er, would have to, if they still offered dangerous soup) carry it though 3 cars.]

Why can't we see those operators for what they are? They inherited one of the UK's finest traditions and achievments and sold it (for a sum less than the balance of my bank account) to accontants worthy of managing a chain of corner convenience stores. - We'll get nowt. They'll remain terrified of a claim.

BTW Did you hear about the service delayed while the ambulance arrived to take chef to hospital? No? Maybe because it was the sort of minor cut to the finger that we all experience every day, and wouldn't think it worth a comment, but which EC escalated to something worthy of upsetting service delivery to ensure chef was properly cared for.
Or maybe just transferred to another body which is more concerned about its own risk-aversion than it is about customer care or making beds available.

BTW. I'm not angry.
I'm hungry.

 

[Super Sprinter]

Well I am disappointed to have just found out (in thread: East Coast - First Class) they they only serve sandwiches on the 1749 service as it would not be cost effective to have a chef onboard.

Have they not heard of a microwave!!! I want some hot grub, not a 3* Michelin standard meal.

A joke if you ask me, they should treat all first class customers equally, not discriminate between different services.

 

[Greenback]

All credit to Elaine Holt, she's obviously taken time out to find out what went wrong and write a comprehensive response. Hopefully, this will lead to changes. But perhaps I am being too hopeful...

It is a comprehensive response, but it fails to address the wider issues in any depth.

I am convinced that there will be some changes made, but I doubt they will be as wide ranging as people want. It will be more of a tinkering at the edges exercise!

 

[jon0844]

If we want the system changed completely, the response may not help.

However, if EC could at least monitor and make changes to ensure that at least what they 'promise' happens, then it would be a big improvement. That would mean proper greetings, the provision on papers, food and drink as on the menu (and indeed, menus!) and not just 2 sandwiches. In truth, that's all anyone can really ask for. The only thing that will change the system in place will be a fall in custom, or more problems that get them lots of negative publicity in the mainstream media.

Most of the problems are down to the crew not providing the service as designed. Now, if it isn't their fault then that's the bit that needs to be fixed. Some of this may be down to poor planning, logistical issues (RG failing to do its bit) and some may be poor training or staff who aren't up to the job. Mix it all together and you get the huge variation in quality.

I hope Elaine, after taking so much time to write a detailed response, will try and work on these issues. She must have some pride in her job, and even if the response may seem like it has elements which are trying to palm us off - bear in mind, she must have asked various people for details and may have received false information to go on.

 

[Greenback]

If we want the system changed completely, the response may not help.

However, if EC could at least monitor and make changes to ensure that at least what they 'promise' happens, then it would be a big improvement. That would mean proper greetings, the provision on papers, food and drink as on the menu (and indeed, menus!) and not just 2 sandwiches. In truth, that's all anyone can really ask for. The only thing that will change the system in place will be a fall in custom, or more problems that get them lots of negative publicity in the mainstream media.

Most of the problems are down to the crew not providing the service as designed. Now, if it isn't their fault then that's the bit that needs to be fixed. Some of this may be down to poor planning, logistical issues (RG failing to do its bit) and some may be poor training or staff who aren't up to the job. Mix it all together and you get the huge variation in quality.

I hope Elaine, after taking so much time to write a detailed response, will try and work on these issues. She must have some pride in her job, and even if the response may seem like it has elements which are trying to palm us off - bear in mind, she must have asked various people for details and may have received false information to go on.

Knowing Elaine, she will be working hard on improving the delivery of the service, although she is less hands on in her current role. I agree that they need to more closely match delivery to the promises. We are all realistic enough to realise that what we experience does not always match the advertising precisely, but with this new offer EC seems to be pretty wide of the mark.

My own personal feeling is that the whole concept is flawed, as is often the case with this country the accountants have probably had too much of a say in the planning stage, whereas those who actually provide the service and listen to the customers have had too little influence. This is something that happens all too frequently in my experience, and the real lessons in introducing new services and ideas are rarely learnt.

 

[krisk]

To give her credit she seems like she cares about the job that she does.

However, a London to Scotland run is not suficciently served by a couple of sandwiches and thats all. I wouldn't be happy with that and I wouldn't travel with them again as I see (from a customer POV) that the catering provision is an important part of the FC service.

My cynical side feels a little bit like she is trying to alienate her Scottish customers (especially North of Edinburgh) to maybe show there is no demand for that service or no catering provided in 1st untill Edinburgh perhaps? Surely no one believes a few sandwiches is enough for such a long run.

Regarding the staff cooking, I think thats interesting. If I have no chef then there is no breakfast as i'm not qualified to cook nor would I do so. The welfare of customers comes first above all else but I would offer copious amounts of juice, toast, croissants, fresh fruit etc.

People on doors again was there other issues that needed attending too, was the train late arriving in, was it laid up, was it fully crewed. If I can't do a door at least as I walk through i'll acknowledge people and say hello.

Something just doesn't seem right with EC but if passengers are unhappy then it's the staff that are in the firing line every day which is going to lead to people feeling disheartened, maybe more so with long serving members of crew.

It will be interesting to see how this develops and how much they listen.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Thanks, I enjoyed that:

I'm so glad you like my post, because it gives me the opportunity to post again with this picture (below) of my evening meal as a response to your avatar image of a 'proper meal' (which was served on-board before 20th May). For the avoidance of doubt, I can do a (long) day's work in London having left home at 6-ish in the morning, eating a light breakfast and coffees on a Newcastle - London train, then a rushed bite at lunchtime, followed always by a freshly cooked, filling, tasty and enjoyable meal on-board before getting home shortly before 11pm.
Its not everyone's daily routine, and certainly not comparable to those posting on here claiming that 'I have travelled on East Coast 3 times and enjoyed the free service'. But it is a routine for many familiar faces I see on board - we are away from home for 17 or 18 hours of the day and are willing to pay the £30+ for a decent meal from the chef and kitchen just 10 meters away from our table!

But now EC won't take our money nd will insult us with snacks. Followed, to be fair, by snacks. And if you're going far, you'll be generously offered more - snacks.

Let the pictures conclude my post - Does the image in your avatar, StrollerEd, suggest a satisfying conclusion to the day?
And . . .
Does my image, below (click to enarge), suggest a satisfying conclusion to a long day? (use the water bottle for scale)?

 

[ainsworth74]

Let the pictures conclude my post - Does the image in your avatar, StrollerEd, suggest a satisfying conclusion to the day?

As the image is mine and I was one too enjoy that particular meal (and the other two course that accompanied it) I have to say it was a very satisfactory conclusion to my day out.

Since 22 May however...

 

[StrollerEd]

no contest as I'm sure we both agree.

there was a time when such a long day had sufficient compensation:

enjoyable full breakfast on the 6ish train going South, with spendid views of Berwickshire and Northumberland coast
+
full days work, including peace and quiet on a train thinking and typing before a London meeting or two
+
enjoyable full evening meal on the 17.00 (or later) going North

That was worth the EC FC ticket price

but sadly no more


and plane rather than train now seems the way to go

 

[DaveNewcastle]

As the image is mine and I was one too enjoy that particular meal (and the other two course that accompanied it) I have to say it was a very satisfactory conclusion to my day out.

I ackowledge you as the photographer ainsworth74, with thanks. Though I was, in all humility, trying to draw attention to my own image of the lesser meal to illustrate the contrast with 'yours'.
A contrast which doesn't simply compare more and better against less and worse, but also trying to focus on the fact that passengers are more than willing to pay for the proper meal.

Shall I just say it again while I'm on? . . . .
Passengers are willingto pay.
The kitchen is powered up and ready to cook (its a fixed part of the train-set).
The Chef is on-board.
The passengers have money in their pockets (or cards).
The CSAs are all on board (more than ever).
There's a float in the till and payment card processing machines ready to take payments.
So why give us crap?

 

[StrollerEd]

and all due acknowledgement to David (ainsworth) Bailey

 

[jon0844]

Does my image, below (click to enarge), suggest a satisfying conclusion to a long day? (use the water bottle for scale)?

I think you better try uploading the picture again, as all I can see is the starter.

Can you please show the main meal?

 

[ainsworth74]

I ackowledge you as the photographer ainsworth74, with thanks. Though I was, in all humility, trying to draw attention to my own image of the lesser meal to illustrate the contrast with 'yours'.

Sorry I did rather hijack your point there didn't I, my apologies in hindsight I would have been better keeping my mouth shut wouldn't I

and all due acknowledgement to David (ainsworth) Bailey

Perhaps in my dreams my name might be worthy of being in the same sentence. In real life however I merely point and click and hope for the best

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Love the irony!

That was 'the main' and only meal (as if you didn't know!).

 

[All Line Rover]

I'm so glad you like my post, because it gives me the opportunity to post again with this picture (below) of my evening meal as a response to your avatar image of a 'proper meal' (which was served on-board before 20th May). For the avoidance of doubt, I can do a (long) day's work in London having left home at 6-ish in the morning, eating a light breakfast and coffees on a Newcastle - London train, then a rushed bite at lunchtime, followed always by a freshly cooked, filling, tasty and enjoyable meal on-board before getting home shortly before 11pm.
Its not everyone's daily routine, and certainly not comparable to those posting on here claiming that 'I have travelled on East Coast 3 times and enjoyed the free service'. But it is a routine for many familiar faces I see on board - we are away from home for 17 or 18 hours of the day and are willing to pay the £30+ for a decent meal from the chef and kitchen just 10 meters away from our table!

But now EC won't take our money nd will insult us with snacks. Followed, to be fair, by snacks. And if you're going far, you'll be generously offered more - snacks.

Let the pictures conclude my post - Does the image in your avatar, StrollerEd, suggest a satisfying conclusion to the day?
And . . .
Does my image, below (click to enarge), suggest a satisfying conclusion to a long day? (use the water bottle for scale)?

Goodness me that's a long day out!

I'm not exactly your "average" First Class traveller - so East Coast can completely ignore my suggestions. As a leisure traveller who has already eaten 10 Bronte biscuits or Eat Natural bars in the First Class lounge, I'm not hungry enough to spend £30 on a 3 course meal (I can travel on the WAG express for that price!). Having said that, I was extremely impressed by East Coast's former cheese platter (of which I still have a picture ) and am most upset that they have made it almost as bad as Virgin's!

Putting myself in your shoes, I agree that after a long day in London , such a "meal" is pathetic - especially compared to the previous offering. I would not be happy if I had paid for a very expensive ticket!

I have said it before (I think) and I'll say it again. East Coast's new offering is fine for the London to Leeds route - it's a very similar market to London to Manchester - but it's not fine for London to Newcastle/Edinburgh. Perhaps East Coast should introduce a level of (complimentary) catering similar to that of the WAG express? It's a similar journey time. I'm sure this thread would go very quiet very suddenly if they did! They could still charge for alcohol, as Arriva do.

The only reason why I have been impressed is because I have made relatively short journeys and have thought: "Wow, that amount of free food in that amount of time! Great!" I don't think I'd be very impressed if I was travelling from London to Edinburgh and only recieved a sandwich, when previously I could have paid a reasonable amount for pies, panini's and cheese platters.