Seriously, how can anyone use the railway for long distance commuting?

[Peter0124]

How could a breakdown in Northampton affect Avanti though? Aren't they seperate routes by then?

 

[Magdalia]

As frontline staff, they certainly do not learn this quickly enough!!!

Most experienced commuters try to leave the frontline staff to get on with the job, and hopefully you don't have to deal with those. You experience those that haven't learned yet!

 

[dk1]

I commuted for 25 years between the Fens and London. That was in the era of Network SouthEast, WAGN and FCC, so no live updates on smartphones or laptops. It included the aftermath of the Kings Cross fire and the Hatfield and Potters Bar derailments.

Disrupted services are part of commuting, and coping with it is a learning experience with plenty of practice. There are a few simple rules that most commuters learn quite quickly:

• always have a plan B, and know when to stick and when to twist
• always have something to read
• don't get angry
• don't get stressed

I would add ‘always have beer’ to that for the homebound journey.

 

[800001]

I decided to go to London and for being a random Thursday so many things went wrong.
I was booked on the 08:58 Birmingham international to euston but was delayed by half an hour when arriving at 10:36 instead.
And then on the way back I was booked on the 17:38 but this didn’t leave until around 18:12 because the driver for the train had been delayed getting into London, and it reached Birmingham International 50 minutes late.
I kept thinking at least I don’t have anywhere important to be or anything I need to do On Time but for people who regularly do long distance commutes like this how do you manage?

I've just been delayed for an hour driving home from work due to a road crash......

 

[dk1]

I've just been delayed for an hour driving home from work due to a road crash......

And can’t get delay repay for that either.

 

[Annetts key]

I decided to go to London and for being a random Thursday so many things went wrong.
I was booked on the 08:58 Birmingham international to euston but was delayed by half an hour when arriving at 10:36 instead.
And then on the way back I was booked on the 17:38 but this didn’t leave until around 18:12 because the driver for the train had been delayed getting into London, and it reached Birmingham International 50 minutes late.
I kept thinking at least I don’t have anywhere important to be or anything I need to do On Time but for people who regularly do long distance commutes like this how do you manage?

In terms of trains, there are many variables. I commuted using mainly trains or sometimes by car for over 35 years between home and my workplace.

Over that time the reliability of the train service has been everything from extremely bad to good and everywhere in-between. For the most part, the trains ran on time or if there were delays, it was less than 10 minutes. But keep in mind that I used a season ticket so could use any available service. And apart from late at night or weekends, the frequency was half-hourly or better.

But the roads have steadily got worse. Gradually the amount of traffic increased. Extensions to existing speed limits plus new speed limits where it was national speeds before. Or in some places, reductions, from 50MPH to 40MPH, from 40MPH to 30MPH, or from 30MPH to 20MPH. And new road junctions (roundabouts, traffic lights). All of which increased the journey time even though the distance was about the same.

As well as my regular commuting (which was not long distance), I also did intermittent and occasional long distance-commuting as meetings were held in other parts of the country. Most often somewhere in London.

During the last four years, some months, I was travelling to London from the Bristol area sometimes two or three times a week. Although not every week. This was only by train. It included using the underground or one of the other lines that crosses the city.

Again, I must point out that the reliability of the train service was everything from extremely bad to good and everywhere in-between. But again, for the most part, the trains ran on time or if there were delays, mostly it was less than 20 minutes. I was travelling on standard tickets though so I could catch any available service.

If there was a train fault, or there was a major problem with a line or lines (OHL fault for example) that did make a complete mess of the service, that was annoying. But as my employer was one of the railway companies, I never had any problems when I was late due to a problem with the trains. More annoying for me was getting home late.

So alas, some of it comes down to luck. One person may experience no problems in their journey by train. While another on the same route, but a different day may have a terrible trip.

Road transport can also be like this. If there is an accident or incident and the police close a road or motorway and you get caught in it, you can be sat in your car going nowhere for half an hour to two hours. It's not fun when this happens.

 

[Tetragon213]

Has the boss never been delayed?

RHIP, as they say, sometimes appended with "Do As I Say, Not As I Do".

 

[Hadders]

How could a breakdown in Northampton affect Avanti though? Aren't they seperate routes by then?

There was a problem with a train at Weedon which blocked the line as well.

So both the lines via Weedon and via Northampton were blocked.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The OP has a valid point. Those of us who either work in the rail industry or have been commuting for many years often forget how the dismal rail service so many TOCs provide looks to an "outsider" new to long distance commuting. It's not just the delays and cancellations, it's the overcrowding and ludicrous peak time fares. I get annoyed by such things travelling on priv rate, goodness knows how those who've paid hundreds of pounds for their tickets feel when their train is cancelled and the one following arrives full and standing!

TOCs shouldn't be shrugging their shoulders and saying "So what? It could be worse", they should be asking themselves "how can we provide a better, more reliable service"?

 

[Russel]

I commuted for 25 years between the Fens and London. That was in the era of Network SouthEast, WAGN and FCC, so no live updates on smartphones or laptops. It included the aftermath of the Kings Cross fire and the Hatfield and Potters Bar derailments.

Disrupted services are part of commuting, and coping with it is a learning experience with plenty of practice. There are a few simple rules that most commuters learn quite quickly:

• always have a plan B, and know when to stick and when to twist
• always have something to read
• don't get angry
• don't get stressed

Regarding the last two points, they are much easier said than done though, especially when you end up with two hour gaps in the service on repeated occasions.

 

[blueberry11]

The thing is, when driving, its increasingly common for drivers to use their sat navs (on their phone) even to go to work, so that they could avoid getting stuck in traffic. Getting stuck in traffic while in a car can be tiring, especially for manual drivers, as they have to keep changing gears. Due to the nature of driving, mobile phone use is forbidden, and eating while driving can be distracting and illegal. And because most people can drive a car but not a train, road collisions always happen, causing delays for other road users.

Meanwhile, with public transport, everyone can do those things safely, as they are not in control of a vehicle. Seat belts are not provided due to the fact that buses and trains are inherently safe (as the chances of a collision/derailment are extremely rare), and are constructed to permit standing passengers. And all National Rail trains (except for Elizabeth line, Overground and Merseyrail) have toilets on board, while cars don't. But because public transport (outside London) often slower than driving, a majority of commuters drive to work.

 

[The exile]

A colleague used to commute from Chippenham to the City. She was almost always in before me, and indeed GWR seemed to be more likely to get her there without delays or instant surprise cancellations than my own commute from SW London - i don't think they ever skip stopped Chippenham, despite it being far less busy than my local station (40% of the footfall according to the latest ORR stats).

She must have been lucky - diversion between Temple Meads and Swindon via Parkway when there’s disruption, while not frequent, is certainly something that happens

 

[Tetragon213]

The thing is, when driving, its increasingly common for drivers to use their sat navs (on their phone) even to go to work, so that they could avoid getting stuck in traffic. Getting stuck in traffic while in a car can be tiring, especially for manual drivers, as they have to keep changing gears. Due to the nature of driving, mobile phone use is forbidden, and eating while driving can be distracting and illegal. And because most people can drive a car but not a train, road collisions always happen, causing delays for other road users.

Meanwhile, with public transport, everyone can do those things safely, as they are not in control of a vehicle. Seat belts are not provided due to the fact that buses and trains are inherently safe (as the chances of a collision/derailment are extremely rare), and are constructed to permit standing passengers. And all National Rail trains (except for Elizabeth line, Overground and Merseyrail) have toilets on board, while cars don't. But because public transport (outside London) often slower than driving, a majority of commuters drive to work.

Irritatingly, it's often cheaper to drive in as well, than it is to take a bus or train, which further acts as incentive to drive in. It's perverse, and public transport should never be more expensive than driving, but here we are.

For my commute (a 8 mile round trip), it's £3.60 a day if you take the "business rate" of 45p per mile. Meanwhile, the train is about £4 in and out which requires a 30 minute walk to the station, while the bus charges an outrageous £5.20 per day, and for the "service" they "provide", they don't deserve a penny of my hard earned cash.

When I was seconded to the Cardiff office, I was paying £7.25 each journey using a Carnet/Multiflex ticket from my hotel to the office. I didn't bring my car out of a desire to "do the right thing" and all for the environment, but I could have driven that journey for significantly less money per day than I paid to TfW.

 

[Pigeon]

I would far rather make a regular long-distance journey by train (as long as there's a half-decent service) than by car. Avoid all the stress and fury of rush-hour traffic on increasingly crappy (and deliberately encrappified) roads, and just doze off for a bit instead. (Especially if it's at a time of day when I ought not to be out of bed anyway.) And it makes it someone else's responsibility to get me there on time, so it's no skin off my own nose if they don't manage it.

I'm sure claiming back half the money on the ticket is really going to soften the blow of the consequent bollocking from the boss. "My bus/train/tram was delayed", in my experience, works about as well as "my dog ate my homework" as reason for being late into the office.

"Don't moan at me, moan at [insert name of TOC]". It's not my fault and it's not under my control, so stuff 'em. They cannot validly argue otherwise.

To my mind it's an advantage of commuting by rail that you can't be blamed personally if it makes you late.

In honesty the least reliable part of my journey is the Marston Vale section!

I tried to use that for commuting once... out of desperation, for about a week. Bedford to MK, or more accurately Kempston to Wolverton. It's that sort of thing that does make me wonder "how can anyone use the railway for commuting". One amazingly slow train an hour, always at the wrong bit of the hour, and "unstressed" connections at Bletchley, don't make for a very useful service.

It went: Get up at some stupid bloody time in the morning. Go to Kempston Hardwick, miles away from anywhere but slightly closer to where I was living than Bedford Midland or St John's. Sit on the train for over an hour, then take more than half the next hour getting to Wolverton, and still arrive at work half an hour too soon and have to stand around shivering (it was winter at the time) outside until the boss turns up with the key. And then the same again in the opposite direction at the end of the day. BTFAGOS. For two places of the size and proximity of Bedford and MK, it's pathetic.

(Hence I end up repeatedly disappointed at EWR's continued failure to present any real prospect of anything more than a minor improvement that still isn't enough to make it practical, even though it is no longer of any personal relevance.)

 

[Hellfire]

For eleven years I used to do a weekly commute from Preston to Euston on Virgin trains. Down on Wednesday morning and back Thursday evening. I can only remember a couple of cancellations, both weather related. The only major delays I experienced were on six occasions coming back from Euston, all of them due to a person under a train somewhere around Watford. I have to say I'd rather be sat in a comfortable seat on a train, with the ability to work, than stuck on the M6/M1 in a car with all that entails. I used to travel First and got a lovely breakfast on the way down and dinner on the way back. The onboard staff were lovely. I understand its all gone downhill a bit now with Avanti.

 

[Horizon22]

I've often wondered how punctual cars, coaches and lorries really are. Of those regular road users who have set themselves a schedule what proportion are usually "on time"? Coach operators publish schedules and truckers have, at least, estimates for journey times but we are never told the percentages of on-time journeys. Most motorists probably assume that a trip will take "as long as it takes" and will accept delays as the inevitable consequence of a congested road network. Nobody seems to complain about the late arrival of cars. If only there were a road version of Realtimetrains!

People certainly don’t assess car journeys and rail journeys in the same way. I guess because one is timetabled - and rigidly so - so it is always easier to tell lateness whilst often more rough scheduling (“I’ll be there by around 9am) is often used for driving.

Also “traffic” is not seen to be anyone’s ‘fault’ unlike a points failure, or a trespasser or a train fault

 

[Annetts key]

The OP has a valid point. Those of us who either work in the rail industry or have been commuting for many years often forget how the dismal rail service so many TOCs provide looks to an "outsider" new to long distance commuting. It's not just the delays and cancellations, it's the overcrowding and ludicrous peak time fares. I get annoyed by such things travelling on priv rate, goodness knows how those who've paid hundreds of pounds for their tickets feel when their train is cancelled and the one following arrives full and standing!

TOCs shouldn't be shrugging their shoulders and saying "So what? It could be worse", they should be asking themselves "how can we provide a better, more reliable service"?

I absolutely agree that the service is nowhere near good enough. But it's not just the TOCs, it's the companies that own the trains (thinking of Hitachi here), Network Rail and the government as well (for example the last government cutting Network Rails funding so hence the maintenance has got worse).

Especially when it comes to the inadequate resources regarding the maintenance of the stock and the infrastructure. And the less than brilliant quality of some of the new systems / stock (thinking of IETs/80X for example, but also the poor quality and reliability of certain SSI signalling modules). And track and vegetation maintenance.

 

[styles]

The only time I've had a commute without (that I can recall) every experiencing delays has been when I've walked or cycled.

Buses, trains, cars all get delayed. A motorbike will get around a lot of congestion by filtering, but there's the occasional case of full road closures etc still.

Leave a little extra time, it's what I've always done anyway. Or in my case if you have slightly flexible working, aim to work something like 7-3, then you've got a 2 hour buffer if your workplace insists on starting work by 9 for example. Appreciate not every workplace is this flexible though.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I'm reminded of dear old Reggie Perrin, forever arriving at work at Sunshine Desserts 11 minute late, but for a different reason each time. In a sense that was a reliable commute in that he knew he would always be 11 minutes late!

 

[D1511]

Real life example.......delayed by 46 minutes on LNR MKC to STA, and my Avanti to Edinburgh is currently 56 late at New St.
The WCML is a crumbling mess

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I'm reminded of dear old old Reggie Perrin, forever arriving at work at Sunshine Desserts 11 minute late, but for a different reason each time. In a sense that was a reliable commute in that he knew he would always be 11 minutes late!

Indeed, and who can forget Reggie's subsequent letter to British Rail (Southern Region)?

Dear Sir,
Every morning my train is eleven minutes late. This is infuriating. This morning I took a later train. This also was eleven minutes late. This also was infuriating. Why don't you re-time all your trains to arrive eleven minutes late? - then they will all be on time.


Yours Faithfully,
Reginald I. Perrin

 

[dk1]

RHIP, as they say, sometimes appended with "Do As I Say, Not As I Do".

Gosh, I’d stick a lot of that

 

[voyagerdude220]

How could a breakdown in Northampton affect Avanti though? Aren't they seperate routes by then?

I know it wasn't the case this time, but a breakdown on the Northampton line could easily affect Avanti, because all the freights and the slower none-Avanti passenger services would have had to go via Weedon, slowing down the Avanti trains stuck behind them.

 

[Rutland23]

I try and commute to work by bike, if I can (fairweather cyclist)

Today I had a puncture a mile and a half from homwe.

35 minutes late arriving home after a 12 hour night shift.

Delay Repay- no chance

Alternatives- no public transport for my route, so no chance

So tonight, I am driving.

Regards

Ian

 

[Annetts key]

The only time I've had a commute without (that I can recall) every experiencing delays has been when I've walked or cycled.

Walking and cycling are more reliable. But not if for some reason the road, path or track is closed. Or when cycling, some other idiot crashes into you or causes you to crash.

I've experienced all of the above.

At a mini-roundabout, I was half way across when a car hit me off my bicycle. And I kid you not, the driver said "sorry I didn't see you". I was late that day because I had to drag my bike back home (home was nearer) and then walk to the station. So I missed the train I normally caught.

I've also had a pedestrian run out onto the road without looking, right in front of me. It was impossible to brake that quickly and the resulting collision misaligned my front wheel with the handle bars. I was not on my way to work though. The idiot pedestrian said nothing, picked themselves up and half ran, half limped off.

I've nearly missed a train because my normal walking route was closed and I had to take a longer route (including running part of the way).

 

[RJ]

I kept thinking at least I don’t have anywhere important to be or anything I need to do On Time but for people who regularly do long distance commutes like this how do you manage?

It is what it is with the railways. Being realistic, some of it you cannot rely on for time critical journeys. If you do, you leave yourself open to stress and disappointment.

Some lines are more consistent than others. I used to travel between London and Loughborough on East Mids and London and Canterbury on HS1 and those lines were perfectly ok reliability wise.

Then I used to travel between London and Cardiff. That part of the network is not ok by any stretch of the imagination. It's plagued with recurring problems and around 1 trip in 3 made was delayed by at least 30 minutes, so I made sure my journeys were never of a time critical nature. Leaving a 2 hour buffer each way means most journeys would be ok.

 

[RT4038]

It went: Get up at some stupid bloody time in the morning. Go to Kempston Hardwick, miles away from anywhere but slightly closer to where I was living than Bedford Midland or St John's. Sit on the train for over an hour, then take more than half the next hour getting to Wolverton, and still arrive at work half an hour too soon and have to stand around shivering (it was winter at the time) outside until the boss turns up with the key. And then the same again in the opposite direction at the end of the day. BTFAGOS. For two places of the size and proximity of Bedford and MK, it's pathetic.

So where were you going sitting on a train from Kempston Hardwick 'for over an hour' ? It is 33-35 minutes to Bletchley currently, 34-35 minutes with the previous generation of diesel-mechanical railcars. If there had been any through workings, over an hour would have got you to Marsh Gibbon.......

 

[cats_five]

Years ago I lived in Leeds. I had a period of several months when I was working in central London and I got the fast train from Bradford Interchange that was non-stop from Wakefield. I don't remember it being late, I do remember it occasionally being early. It was an HST with it's number painted on the front of the south (leading to London) powercar in LNER-style lettering, though it was slightly wobbly.

Some time after that I was travelling to Kirkcaldy fairly often. At that time there was a direct Aberdeen train from Leeds at about 07:10, and caught the afternoon Aberdeen train to York. This of course was also an HST.

Neither of these would have been possibly by road, plus I treated myself to the dinning car on occasion. I ended up being to late too come back from London one day so caught a train the next day and was entertained by the waiter serving soup! Also ended up sharing tables with some interesting people - no such thing as a table to yourself. On the way north from KX to Leeds service would just be starting when the train stopped at Peterborough, and the dinning car was level with the buffet on the platform.

Happy days. And now I'm happily retired.

BTW the HST is my favourite train, and I reckon they have done terrific service over the years. I must take some trips on the Scotrail ones.

 

[Steve Harris]

The thing is, when driving, its increasingly common for drivers to use their sat navs (on their phone) even to go to work, so that they could avoid getting stuck in traffic. Getting stuck in traffic while in a car can be tiring, especially for manual drivers, as they have to keep changing gears. Due to the nature of driving, mobile phone use is forbidden, and eating while driving can be distracting and illegal. And because most people can drive a car but not a train, road collisions always happen, causing delays for other road users.

Meanwhile, with public transport, everyone can do those things safely, as they are not in control of a vehicle. Seat belts are not provided due to the fact that buses and trains are inherently safe (as the chances of a collision/derailment are extremely rare), and are constructed to permit standing passengers. And all National Rail trains (except for Elizabeth line, Overground and Merseyrail) have toilets on board, while cars don't. But because public transport (outside London) often slower than driving, a majority of commuters drive to work.

You missed out Great Northern (Stevenage/Welwyn Garden City - Moorgate, Class717's don't have toilets)

 

[Hellfire]

Years ago I lived in Leeds. I had a period of several months when I was working in central London and I got the fast train from Bradford Interchange that was non-stop from Wakefield. I don't remember it being late, I do remember it occasionally being early. It was an HST with it's number painted on the front of the south (leading to London) powercar in LNER-style lettering, though it was slightly wobbly.

Some time after that I was travelling to Kirkcaldy fairly often. At that time there was a direct Aberdeen train from Leeds at about 07:10, and caught the afternoon Aberdeen train to York. This of course was also an HST.

Neither of these would have been possibly by road, plus I treated myself to the dinning car on occasion. I ended up being to late too come back from London one day so caught a train the next day and was entertained by the waiter serving soup! Also ended up sharing tables with some interesting people - no such thing as a table to yourself. On the way north from KX to Leeds service would just be starting when the train stopped at Peterborough, and the dinning car was level with the buffet on the platform.

Happy days. And now I'm happily retired.

BTW the HST is my favourite train, and I reckon they have done terrific service over the years. I must take some trips on the Scotrail ones.

Best trains ever. On GWR they have been replaced with the Hitachi Class 800s. Uncomfortable, noisy and with seats like ironing boards even in First