Cross-Country Catering and Poor PR

[Masbroughlad]

XC Facebook page had an advert saying they were removing catering from non-Voyager journeys. It said it was to create 'tastier' journeys.

They disabled comments and now it's disappeared altogether!

Sorry moderators, I can't put a link because it's gone!

Should Intercity services have catering? They are inter-city services after all - Nottingham to Cardiff (and others).

I think it's a bit shoddy really. Maybe the short journeys, but longer ones deserve a trolley, at least. And XC marketing really need to go on some PR courses!!!

 

[dk1]

This was announced across social media yesterday afternoon. I had to laugh at their spin on it by saying we are concentrating on our Voyager services.

 

[Parallel]

XC Facebook page had an advert saying they were removing catering from non-Voyager journeys. It said it was to create 'tastier' journeys.

They disabled comments and now it's disappeared altogether!

Sorry moderators, I can't put a link because it's gone!

Should Intercity services have catering? They are inter-city services after all - Nottingham to Cardiff (and others).

I think it's a bit shoddy really. Maybe the short journeys, but longer ones deserve a trolley, at least. And XC marketing really need to go on some PR courses!!!

It is following the trend of removal of regional-intercity services. GWR removed catering on their Cardiff to Portsmouth route a few years ago too which is similar in some ways to Cardiff - Nottingham.

But saying the removal of catering would lead to ‘tastier’ journeys is an interesting spin, it makes it sound like the food they serve currently tastes worse than simply eating nothing but if I’m honest, it really feels XC are on their hind legs and have simply given up on their operation since COVID.

 

[dk1]

It’s always sad to see catering removed but if I’m honest the Stansted route was very poor. Not a great deal of choice, only part of the day to suit the shore base, and often the trolley wasn’t announced over the tannoy or worse by the host as the trolley passed by before I even knew it was approaching. For the last couple of years I’ve been expecting this announcement.

 

[wagnaga]

It’s always sad to see catering removed but if I’m honest the Stansted route was very poor. Not a great deal of choice, only part of the day to suit the shore base, and often the trolley wasn’t announced over the tannoy or worse by the host as the trolley passed by before I even knew it was approaching. For the last couple of years I’ve been expecting this announcement.

Ironically Greater Anglia are trialling a trolley service on some off peak services between Norwich and Stansted.

 

[dk1]

Ironically Greater Anglia are trialling a trolley service on some off peak services between Norwich and Stansted.

Yes I worked for GA until recently. It’s only middle of the day in the latter half of the week unless spare/volunteer staff agree at other times. Some have been taking over £100 on a return trip. I did here the 3 month trial might be extended to 6 but nothing confirmed. Initially in 2002 all except the last two trains on the new Norwich-Cambridge Anglia route had a trolley. It was withdrawn by NXEA a few years later.

 

[swt_passenger]

It is following the trend of removal of regional-intercity services. GWR removed catering on their Cardiff to Portsmouth route a few years ago too which is similar in some ways to Cardiff - Nottingham.

Very similar types of route - but nobody would have ever seriously suggested Portsmouth to Cardiff was an ‘intercity’ route, and I just don’t see Cardiff to Nottingham as being intercity either.

 

[Llandudno]

I just wish XC would actually run the damn trains they are supposed to and with the right number of coaches.

Yet more strikes every Saturday until January - a shambolic company!

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

It will be, as it always is, about money. If you want a laugh, you should read their TripAdvisor reviews. They'll need a lot of PR expertise to recover their reputation.

This week, I just couldn't face a 4 car Voyager from Birmingham New Street to Newcastle. It was late, the platform was rammed and I just didn't have it in me to ensure that. I ended up going up the WCML and across the Tyne Valley.

It put two hours onto my journey but at least I was in a degree of comfort and I kept my sanity.

 

[Bishopstone]

Yes I worked for GA until recently. It’s only middle of the day in the latter half of the week unless spare/volunteer staff agree at other times. Some have been taking over £100 on a return trip. I did here the 3 month trial might be extended to 6 but nothing confirmed.

This illustrates the viability challenge for on-train catering.

A round trip from Norwich to Stansted is 4 hours. Staff costs for the trolley person will be minimum £25ph once you include employer NI, pension contributions, training, paid breaks, holiday pay, other benefits etc.

So £100 may, just about, cover the staff costs. But that’s before you buy any of the stock you’re selling, and buying/hiring and maintaining the trolleys etc.

And if you extend catering across the day, you’ll get some quiet back workings where you take only a few pounds.

I applaud GA’s initiative, but there are good reasons trolleys were, and are, being withdrawn.

 

[dk1]

This illustrates the viability challenge for on-train catering.

A round trip from Norwich to Stansted is 4 hours. Staff costs for the trolley person will be minimum £25ph once you include employer NI, pension contributions, training, paid breaks, holiday pay, other benefits etc.

So £100 may, just about, cover the staff costs. But that’s before you buy any of the stock you’re selling, and buying/hiring and maintaining the trolleys etc.

And if you extend catering across the day, you’ll get some quiet back workings where you take only a few pounds.

I applaud GA’s initiative, but there are good reasons trolleys were, and are, being withdrawn.

I always look at it as a loss leader. Hotels with swimming pools are only used by a fraction of those who booked but were taken in by the facilities available.

 

[duffield]

Frankly it sounds like a made-up excuse to me. My understanding is that the catering on the 170 services has always been outsourced while the Voyager catering is in-house, so getting rid of catering (a simple trolley!) on the 170 services seems to have no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the Voyager catering or in any way allow them to "concentrate on it".

Ridiculous.

If the 170 trolleys are unprofitable (maybe they have to pay a minimum to the out source company regardless of sales), just say that. I wouldn't be surprised if it was unprofitable, I see many fairly full services where a trolley only sells one coffee and a chocolate bar to the entire carriage, if it can even get through.

 

[djox]

I thought it had been removed already on Oxford to Birmingham route, but realised they usually can't get through so just stick at the back of the train making no sales as passengers can't get through either.

 

[Transilien]

They really should just put vending machines on trains already!

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Frankly it sounds like a made-up excuse to me. My understanding is that the catering on the 170 services has always been outsourced while the Voyager catering is in-house, so getting rid of catering (a simple trolley!) on the 170 services seems to have no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the Voyager catering or in any way allow them to "concentrate on it".

Ridiculous.

Catering on the 170’s is outsourced to RailGourmet as I understand it and XC are taking on a “handful” of the caterers on those services and taking them in-house to work Voyagers. But most of them sadly will not cross over. Catering as a whole across the industry is a loss-leader when taken in isolation but adds value to the overall offering as a whole. I won’t comment my personal opinion on this however as a staff member….

 

[BanburyBlue]

I haven't used XC regularly for years, so may be out of date, but I used to have the following issues...

• The staff handover time: I used to regularly travel from Banbury to Derby and back in a day. When travelling back, the catering staff would start the stocktake and cash up process, ready for the handover at Birmingham on leaving Derby. And the new staff coming on board at Birmingham, would normally pass me as the train was between Leamington and Banbury. It seems an inordinately long time for a handover, making the catering unavailable for significant portions of a journey.
• Train too busy to get the trolley through.
• Catering staff too lazy to take the trolley through. There were plenty of times that the train was not busy, but there used to be the announcement "if you want catering, come and find me at the end of coach F"

Regular travellers will use catering if it is reliable. I gave up as 9 times out of 10 when I wanted it, it wasn't available.

In terms of cost, these things do seem to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Push up prices to make a profit/cover costs, less people us it because too expensive, push up prices etc.

Off topic - I miss the shop!!

 

[a_c_skinner]

Catering as a whole across the industry is a loss-leader

Is it? Does the sort of catering offered in standard on most trips tip the balance of which mode of transport for (m)any? Most people seem competent to bring a can of pop and a snack and the majority of rail journeys must be within the time most adults can manage without food and drink. So is it a loss-leader or just a loss?

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Whilst not privy to the financials, I’d be surprised if any catering on board trains make an overall profit. It’s there to enhance the experience for customers.

To the poster who says some caterers are too lazy to pull the trolley through, there can be various reasons as to why this is… for example, it may be predicted (through reservations info etc) that the caterer may get stuck halfway through the train when passing a busy station etc which may mean they cannot get back to their working area before they’re due to get off/handover to another staff member. There are also instances where a caterer may be on restricted duties due to injury for example which means they may not be able to move the catering trolley etc. It’s not always because caterers are “lazy”….

 

[dk1]

Whilst not privy to the financials, I’d be surprised if any catering on board trains make an overall profit. It’s there to enhance the experience for customers.

To the poster who says some caterers are too lazy to pull the trolley through, there can be various reasons as to why this is… for example, it may be predicted (through reservations info etc) that the caterer may get stuck halfway through the train when passing a busy station etc which may mean they cannot get back to their working area before they’re due to get off/handover to another staff member. There are also instances where a caterer may be on restricted duties due to injury for example which means they may not be able to move the catering trolley etc. It’s not always because caterers are “lazy”….

Very much agree. Here on Greater Anglia there are a few restricted staff who only work the cafe bar. Should set swaps take place and a 745/1 replaces their booked 745/0 then unfortunately only a ‘static’ trolley can be provided which then has to be in the area in the front or back meaning those furthest away have a 12 carriage walk so will mostly not bother to purchase anything.

 

[RailWonderer]

I thought it had been removed already on Oxford to Birmingham route, but realised they usually can't get through so just stick at the back of the train making no sales as passengers can't get through either.

This is the case on many more services, like EMR ICs, and busy GWR services as well. Unless you're standing in the back by the trolley, you're not able to buy anything.

They really should just put vending machines on trains already!

Agreed. A tea/coffee from a machine and a bag of crisps or a Twix will satisfy 90%* of passengers on journeys of less than two hours.

*Probably.

 

[tumbledown]

They really should just put vending machines on trains already!

But would they be able to resist interlocking them with the train management software (pace toilets elsewhere)?

 

[duffield]

This is the case on many more services, like EMR ICs, and busy GWR services as well. Unless you're standing in the back by the trolley, you're not able to buy anything.

Agreed. A tea/coffee from a machine and a bag of crisps or a Twix will satisfy 90%* of passengers on journeys of less than two hours.

*Probably.

Although the problem is on XC trains that often the overcrowding means the trolley can't get through - so you couldn't get through to the vending machine that replaces it!

 

[TUC]

Whilst not privy to the financials, I’d be surprised if any catering on board trains make an overall profit. It’s there to enhance the experience for customers.

To the poster who says some caterers are too lazy to pull the trolley through, there can be various reasons as to why this is… for example, it may be predicted (through reservations info etc) that the caterer may get stuck halfway through the train when passing a busy station etc which may mean they cannot get back to their working area before they’re due to get off/handover to another staff member. There are also instances where a caterer may be on restricted duties due to injury for example which means they may not be able to move the catering trolley etc. It’s not always because caterers are “lazy”….

Sorry, but are customers really expected to have no certainty over whether a service is provided, in case the staff member happens to have an injury? That is the tail wagging the dog.

 

[dk1]

Sorry, but are customers really expected to have no certainty over whether a service is provided, in case the staff member happens to have an injury? That is the tail wagging the dog.

Not at all. An announcement will usually be made. I’m sure the passenger won’t starve or dehydrate to any substantial level.

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Exactly - the PA will explain the catering situation.

 

[TUC]

Not at all. An announcement will usually be made. I’m sure the passenger won’t starve or dehydrate to any substantial level.

An announcement will be made- presumably after the service has departed.

What a dismissive comment. The aim is to help provide an enjoyable, relaxing journey, not simply to avoid dehydration

 

[dk1]

An announcement will be made- presumably after the service has departed.

What a dismissive comment. The aim is to help provide an enjoyable, relaxing journey, not simply to avoid dehydration

Unfortunately that’s life. Things do not always go the way we expect. The static trolley manned by the restricted employee is better than nothing at all.

 

[TUC]

Unfortunately that’s life. Things do not always go the way we expect. The static trolley manned by the restricted employee is better than nothing at all.

That does not sound like the attitude of a business eager for pleasing its customers and growing its income.

 

[dk1]

That does not sound like the attitude of a business eager for pleasing its customers and growing its income.

But it is looking after its staff member for whom is still trying their best to provide the service.

 

[saismee]

But would they be able to resist interlocking them with the train management software (pace toilets elsewhere)?

"This train has been delayed due to a fault with a vending machine."