Eyersey468
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Aa far as I know you can still reserve seats, it is odd they wouldn't let you do it on that day
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National Express Coaches Discussion
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EYFanatic
Member
Might be a glitch in the system
Just seen that NatEx are offering trips to Hull on Christmas Day on the 25th December only 801 - don't recall this in previous years
F Great Eastern
Established Member
BusTimes.org is showing the 717, 727 and 777 being deregistered from January.
They just withdrawing it as a registered route or they being scrapped?
They just withdrawing it as a registered route or they being scrapped?
Eyersey468
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I'm.not aware of them being scrapped but we shall have to see
markymark2000
On Moderation
Looking at it, it's just scrapping them as a registered route and thus they can't carry local passengers. The routes are still bookable for dates after the registration change, but you can't book the local journeys.
Across the board, National Express does seem to be cutting back on 'local' passengers, I note a number of London Service Permits to reduce the number of services which fall into the LSP and as such reduce the number of services which then can take local passengers between Heathrow and Victoria (404, 406, 408, 423, 460, 501 and 504), and Golders Green/Finchley Road and Victoria (422, 440, 540 and 560). Plus the recent changes to the 170/171 which have banned local travel.
In the case of the 717 and 777, I doubt people are really travelling locally on these routes anyway, and if they are the numbers will be small. Registering the route can lose flexibility (as changes become subject to registration timelines), and you really should be held against the Traffic Commissioners punctuality rules.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Perhaps, but also perhaps not. Are there enough passengers travelling 'locally' on these sections to justify the registrations? Especially given there are costs and paperwork associated with it?
In most cases where 'local' journeys have been withdrawn, it does look like there are alternative services. Either in the form of local buses (for the non London services), or other NatEx services which can carry local passengers (in the case of the London changes)
The 170/171 though I think is a shame as they could have done so much better but have been properly ran down by NatEx shoving them all through Manchester Airport as well as removing many of the other stops in Manchester.
Does National Express even do anything to advertise that these local fares are available. Many people would assume they're not on a long distance coach, even if they know where it stops.
markymark2000
On Moderation
No, they don't promote it (or seem to promote anything route specific these days. All generic waffle, a bit like Flixbus), and to be fair the local fares are normally silly priced if you buy on board. The 777 for example is £6.30 single, £11.50 return from Coventry to Birmingham Airport to buy onboard. Why would you do that when you can get the X1 for £3, or the train for 5.40. You can however buy the local fares online normally much cheaper, but realistically you probably wouldn't consider it if there are frequent alternatives available.
Didn't Arriva run a bus from Liverpool to Manchester Airport at some point? Or from Manchester to Liverpool John Lennon. Was one of the two. Maybe another operator could step in and run it as a limited stop service..
Local fares in London are pretty reasonable when booked online. I paid £2.40 for Paddington to Golders Green in the PM peak recently.
Worth it for the guaranteed seat, and only had to wait a couple of minutes for my onward connecting bus that took me the rest of the way home.
It really depends. Some fares are actually cheaper than local buses if bought onboard the NX coach from the driver. It can sometimes be good value.
Hickstead to Brighton is a great example of the coach being a far better option than local buses. Hickstead to Brighton costs £3.10 single or £5.20 return if purchased onboard the NX coach. But it would be £3.00 single or £6.00 return on the local bus. So buying onboard the coach is a much cheaper option for any local residents of the village wanting a return to go to Brighton and back for shopping or work. The coach is also far more frequent and far quicker than the local bus.
National Express do publish all of their onboard fares from the driver on their website here:
National Express Coaches - Coach Guide Pages
They try very hard to keep these hidden and you have to do a lot of searching online to find it.
There are some stupid fares though like £3.60 single or £5.70 return from Gatwick South Terminal to Gatwick North Terminal or for £3.60 single or £6.30 return from Heathrow Terminal 123 to Heathrow Terminal 5 which obviously nobody buys.
I had heard that NX registered some sections of its routes as local bus services so it could claim Bus Service Operators Grant (BSOG). Is that correct?
Something of a risk that the coach is full though, if just going out to catch a National Express coach speculatively.
Baxenden Bank
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If it is a registered local service, sufficient capacity should be provided. That could mean not fully booking a coach to ensure a handful of seats are available, allowing standing passengers, or providing a duplicate.
gray1404
Established Member
Not true at all. Services can be sold up to 53 seats on most vehicles even though they have a London service permit or local service permit. There is no requirement to keep seats standby.
Indeed, some 'normal' service buses can be full up and not allow any more passengers on - the same presumably could happen with a coach, except no standees are allowed.
Eyersey468
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You can't have standing passengers on a coach, they aren't licensed for it
Yeah, except the part where coach passengers are not allowed to stand by law...
Class73Electro
Member
Not again?! We've only just got the Gatwick services back!
Baxenden Bank
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So the operator has to provide a duplicate in order to meet likely capacity. If they need to do that on a regular basis they are required to vary their service registration.
Standees are allowed on local services, even on motorway sections. If the vehicle is plated for standees it can carry them, if it isn't they can't.
Umm they don’t? They don’t have to provide any duplication. At all…
And regardless of if they are meant to, there are plenty of operators that don't, and are perfectly happy to leave people behind.
They keep tinkering with the airport services to the South Coast. Gatwick comes and goes.
EYFanatic
Member
Gatwick seems to be a flight of fancy for NatEx
What is the source for that as I tried a date later in December and it returned results.
Smethwickian
Member
Check your journey search results by clicking on the 'i' where it says '1 change' and you will see the options are all by changing at Heathrow. Direct service 206 is quite definitely being withdrawn.
WelshBluebird
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Just catching up on some of the last few pages, as someone who does Bristol to London a fair bit on National Express, it would be bad for the market if they were to reduce their footprint. We've already lost Megabus recently, and at least in my experience, despite initially putting prices up after that, its now NatEx who occupy the lower end price wise. At least every time I look Flixbus seem to be much more expensive. Maybe that is a reflection on the competition Flixbus are giving them though!