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Why would a passenger train driver need to see internal CCTV images?

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Vexed

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Why would the driver need internal camera feeds?

I'm sure it's usefull in some circumstances.
And for guards to look at when in the back cab - I assume there isn't a dedicated office for them like most stock except the Pendilionos?
 

dk1

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On the 745/755 fleet they only work in the keyed in driving cab if a pass com is activated or the emergency window key is removed or if the train is travelling below 3mph.
 

800301

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To get a general idea of what is going on inside the train at stations in regards to loadings, to see if people have alighted before closing the doors before staff walk through to clear the train for ECS as there are no porter switches or off peak mode on an IET, Too see the area of a Passcom/Egress pulled
 

tram21

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And for guards to look at when in the back cab - I assume there isn't a dedicated office for them like most stock except the Pendilionos?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Intercity Train managers/ guards would have access to the back cab of a train? Its only regional trains they use the back cab, and generally have their own area on Intercity trains.
 

Bertie the bus

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I'm more interested in why passengers need to see internal CCTV images as with the 777s. I suppose it could be argued it might make people behave better but it always feels like an invasion of privacy to me. Being in public one will always be seen but putting random images on the train's screens is taking things too far.
 

Lewisham2221

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I'm more interested in why passengers need to see internal CCTV images as with the 777s. I suppose it could be argued it might make people behave better but it always feels like an invasion of privacy to me. Being in public one will always be seen but putting random images on the train's screens is taking things too far.
No different to shops, buses etc where it happens. It's to make it very clear that you're on CCTV to act as a deterrent
 

800301

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Intercity Train managers/ guards would have access to the back cab of a train? Its only regional trains they use the back cab, and generally have their own area on Intercity trains.

They certainly do at GWR and TPE
 

Bertie the bus

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No different to shops, buses etc where it happens. It's to make it very clear that you're on CCTV to act as a deterrent
Except it isn't a deterrent in any way. The vast majority of passengers behave in a civilised manner anyway and those that don't really aren't going to either care or be deterred. It is just a creeping surveillance society that should be strictly regulated and in most cases stopped.
 

norbitonflyer

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Except it isn't a deterrent in any way. The vast majority of passengers behave in a civilised manner anyway and those that don't really aren't going to either care or be deterred. It is just a creeping surveillance society that should be strictly regulated and in most cases stopped.
It may not be a deterrent. But it may help to reassure worried passengers that any such activity is being watched and recorded.
 

Bertie the bus

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But it may help to reassure worried passengers that any such activity is being watched and recorded.
That doesn't even mean anything. Any such activity is being watched and recorded? Do you mean activity like people just sitting on a train, minding their own business which is what the screens show? If that sort activity worries people then public transport isn't for them.
 

Russel

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Intercity Train managers/ guards would have access to the back cab of a train? Its only regional trains they use the back cab, and generally have their own area on Intercity trains.

The only stock I can think of with dedicated space for the Train Manager is the Pendolinos?

Actually, do the SWT desiros still have guards offices and if so are they still used? I know the LM 350s had them but they got ripped out years ago.
 

RailAleFan

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It's horrible. I get it in pubs where there is often a clearly visible screen near the bar cycling through the CCTV feeds but if you're sat on a train for a 3 hour journey trying to mind your own business; no need for you to be shown on a screen every 30s.
 

Lewisham2221

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The only stock I can think of with dedicated space for the Train Manager is the Pendolinos?

Actually, do the SWT desiros still have guards offices and if so are they still used? I know the LM 350s had them but they got ripped out years ago.
Mk4s have a dedicated office for the TM

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Except it isn't a deterrent in any way. The vast majority of passengers behave in a civilised manner anyway and those that don't really aren't going to either care or be deterred. It is just a creeping surveillance society that should be strictly regulated and in most cases stopped.
Hardly "creeping" when it's been a thing for over 30 years. You're on CCTV regardless, the screen just visually re-enforces that
 

swt_passenger

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The only stock I can think of with dedicated space for the Train Manager is the Pendolinos?

Actually, do the SWT desiros still have guards offices and if so are they still used? I know the LM 350s had them but they got ripped out years ago.
No, SWR’s were also removed in the layout changes about 4 or 5 years ago.
 

Lewisham2221

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I don't mind being on CCTV, that's fine.

I object to being on CCTV and displayed on a loop on a screen in a train carriage to everyone else whilst i'm just trying to mind my own business.
The only people who can see you are the people who can... see you. Shops and other places have had similar systems in place (where other people who are in the same place can see a CCTV feed of the same place) for decades
 

RailAleFan

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The only people who can see you are the people who can... see you. Shops and other places have had similar systems in place (where other people who are in the same place can see a CCTV feed of the same place) for decades

I know.

But that's totally different to being a featured passenger on Avanti West Coast TV.
 
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Bertie the bus

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Hardly "creeping" when it's been a thing for over 30 years. You're on CCTV regardless, the screen just visually re-enforces that
It hasn't been on public transport for over 30 years at all. You have just made that up. As for being on CCTV regardless, yes I know, but CCTV and the release of images taken by CCTV is regulated. There was quite a furore when Branson released images clearly showing people's faces when rebutting Corbyn's claim he had to stand on a VTEC service. Therefore, showing CCTV images to everybody on a train is either against the regulations or certainly against the spirit of the regulations and should be clamped down on.
 

Mattplans

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I'm more interested in why passengers need to see internal CCTV images as with the 777s. I suppose it could be argued it might make people behave better but it always feels like an invasion of privacy to me. Being in public one will always be seen but putting random images on the train's screens is taking things too far.
A lot of London Buses show CCTV on passenger-facing displays. They show the CCTV system is working (out of use cctv is quite common on some trains), and it also deters anti-social behaviour. It can also show how busy other carriages are? Like on buses some like to look to see how busy the upper deck is before they go up. Let's not kid ourselves that we have any remaining privacy in any public area.


If we wanted to target undue surveillance, I'd start with train companies taking advantage of the end user's reliance on apps like Trainline to inform their prosecutions, this has become almost a certainty in every case posted in the forum.
 

Bertie the bus

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If we wanted to target undue surveillance, I'd start with train companies taking advantage of the end user's reliance on apps like Trainline to inform their prosecutions, this has become almost a certainty in every case posted in the forum.
So you dislike surveillance that specifically targets criminals but think broadcasting images of people doing absolutely nothing wrong is fine? Well, I don't.
 
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