Merseyrail 777 introduction

[karlbbb]

004 has disappeared from its siding at Kirkdale somtime over the weekend, it was looking rather pulled apart, maybe finally bringing it back?

It's back in its usual place this morning, now with missing headlights! I guess they've been donated to 010 as mentioned above.



Edit: Train stop to door release times are still shocking. On my journey this morning I counted in my head that at every stop the wait time was anywhere from 3-11 seconds. The 11-second stop felt like an eternity.

 

[Sam 76]

All Southport peaks formed of 4 cars this afternoon due to maintenance requirements. Yet ordering a few more units would be “a waste of money” according to some.

The network has never been busier, and the planned expansion of 8 cars to Ormskirk and Chester begs the question where are the units going to come from ?

 

[kento]

Noticed one set was even a battery set 777148

 

[karlbbb]

A door release while moving is really not great, though luckily no doors actually opened. I can only assume this is a software bug to add to the list.

 

[Skie]

On Apple Maps it has the Wirral Line between Kirkby and Headbolt Lane, maybe a glitch but if so quite a bizarre one.

Fixed

 

[MR-507508]

A particularly challenging evening on the Northern line, with the Everton match and Aintree races. A train fault, followed by overcrowding on the 4 Cars with passengers having to leave the train to allow it to depart, lead to significant delays on multiple lines.
I don't understand why more 8 Cars were not used on the Ormskirk line, with only 2 x 8 Cars operating on the line, as opposed to the usual 4 x 8 Cars on match days, while 4 x 8 Cars operated on the Southport line, where as this is usually 3 x 8 cars on a Saturday. Unless I am missing an event taking place on the Southport line today?
I understand the Southport line is the busiest, but should priority of 8 Cars not be given to Ormskirk services today, especially with Aintree races on, this is what seemed to be leading to overcrowding once Liverpool bound trains arrived at Sandhills, preventing match goers being unable to board.

 

[185]

A door release while moving is really not great, though luckily no doors actually opened. I can only assume this is a software bug to add to the list.

I read the article that it was paused outside Central awaiting the platform. Train was 0611 off Headbolt Lane to Central, 06 Nov 2025, ran 2 late throughout then into Central 13 late.

Trains don't just release their doors. I'm not buying this technical fault nonsense. Been several of these now, wonder what the investigatory conclusions are.

There's potential for harm, so RSSB or RAIB should be reassuring passengers this is being looked at.

 

[390112A]

A particularly challenging evening on the Northern line, with the Everton match and Aintree races. A train fault, followed by overcrowding on the 4 Cars with passengers having to leave the train to allow it to depart, lead to significant delays on multiple lines.
I don't understand why more 8 Cars were not used on the Ormskirk line, with only 2 x 8 Cars operating on the line, as opposed to the usual 4 x 8 Cars on match days, while 4 x 8 Cars operated on the Southport line, where as this is usually 3 x 8 cars on a Saturday. Unless I am missing an event taking place on the Southport line today?
I understand the Southport line is the busiest, but should priority of 8 Cars not be given to Ormskirk services today, especially with Aintree races on, this is what seemed to be leading to overcrowding once Liverpool bound trains arrived at Sandhills, preventing match goers being unable to board.

2x booked 8 car circuits on the Ormskirk line were short formed today due to unit availability (the aim was to have 4x 8 cars on each line). This is the same as yesterday when peak Southport 8 cars were short formed. Normal Saturday is 4x 8car on Southports. You are correct it would have been better to have 3 8 car on each line to balance.

 

[greeny11]

Based on the Merseyrail X feed, there have been numerous issues with the trains over the past week - more than usual, which has probably led to decreased availability on a day when they really needed every single unit out there. I was out and about on the Wirral line last weekend, and couldn't help but notice that quite a few of the units had the do not couple signs in the windows, which if the issues haven't been fixed also means that the number of units available to form 8-cars is even less.

Looking at RTT for Sandhills from about 17:30 yesterday, almost every train stopped for at least 2 minutes (one was stopped for 9 minutes which probably caused big issues further along the line) - the pics I've seen on social media look horrendous - the station is not built for the number of people it saw yesterday, especially when combined with the Aintree races and short-formed trains.

 

[childwallblues]

Based on the Merseyrail X feed, there have been numerous issues with the trains over the past week - more than usual, which has probably led to decreased availability on a day when they really needed every single unit out there. I was out and about on the Wirral line last weekend, and couldn't help but notice that quite a few of the units had the do not couple signs in the windows, which if the issues haven't been fixed also means that the number of units available to form 8-cars is even less.

Looking at RTT for Sandhills from about 17:30 yesterday, almost every train stopped for at least 2 minutes (one was stopped for 9 minutes which probably caused big issues further along the line) - the pics I've seen on social media look horrendous - the station is not built for the number of people it saw yesterday, especially when combined with the Aintree races and short-formed trains.

The Hill Dickinson Stadium was started to be built around 3/4 years ago but due to a lack of foresight by the Liverpool City Region no planning was done at Sandhills until the end of 2024 and we have the current facilities which appear to be inadequate.

 

[baldyman26]

This whole new fleet of trains has been nothing short of a disaster. The so called teething problems excuse can no longer be used. The faults aren't going away and now the trains are actually becoming dangerous. The Mayor is either hiding, or completely and blissfully unaware of the problems us passengers face every day. Saying that, his new Royal yaught, sorry Ferry is keeping his ego bulging at the moment. God help us all if the network expands and us tax payers fork out more cash for more of these heaps.

 

[Pacef8]

While technically correct in your assumption the whole infrastructure installed on the cheap seems much at fault with signal and track failures often occurring . Lifts and escalators appear to have far more problems than they used to.

 

[jamesst]

While technically correct in your assumption the whole infrastructure installed on the cheap seems much at fault with signal and track failures often occurring . Lifts and escalators appear to have far more problems than they used to.

Haha trust me theres nothing cheap about signalling and track work. The main issues with the signalling are most of the underground equipment is life expired. As for the track faults cut back on maintenance staff and this is the result. That's not even exclusive to Merseyrail, Network Rail have slashed maintenance staff across the country.

 

[Pacef8]

A big failure at James Street this morning for several hours .

 

[Pacef8]

Can anyone tell me what the various movements where overnight from James street to Chester their appears to of been a test train of some kind or three.

 

[karlbbb]

The reversion of Southport/Ormskirk lines is still - surprisingly - showing as 5th Jan 2026 on RTT. I'm honestly surprised it's not been pushed back yet, given we're only 7 weeks out.

 

[Ellis101]

The reversion of Southport/Ormskirk lines is still - surprisingly - showing as 5th Jan 2026 on RTT. I'm honestly surprised it's not been pushed back yet, given we're only 7 weeks out.

It's only been a 18 month long temporary timetable!

 

[MR-507508]

The reversion of Southport/Ormskirk lines is still - surprisingly - showing as 5th Jan 2026 on RTT. I'm honestly surprised it's not been pushed back yet, given we're only 7 weeks out.

RTT has been updated now showing the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross / Southport - Liverpool Central remaining and now showing as permanent paths (no longer showing as Short-Term Plan 'STP') until at least May 2026.

 

[Sam 76]

RTT has been updated now showing the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross / Southport - Liverpool Central remaining and now showing as permanent paths (no longer showing as Short-Term Plan 'STP') until at least May 2026.

I assume they are going to have to test the 8 car formations in the real world (aka with passengers) at the SDO stations first before changing the timetable back?

This might allow for example just 1 8 car formation to run initially on the Hunts Cross branch and a gradual increase. If it reverted back to Southport all the pressure would be on for it to work with multiple sets all at once

 

[M28361M]

It's interesting that any mention of the Ormskirk-Hunts Cross timetable being "temporary" seems to have been scrubbed from Merseyrail's website.

Is there still an intention to do a full timetable recast at some point? As far as I'm aware Merseyrail is still on 507 timings. We were promised a speedup of services to take advantage of the better acceleration of the 777s, or has things like the slow door opening cancelled out any advantage?

 

[Ellis101]

RTT has been updated now showing the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross / Southport - Liverpool Central remaining and now showing as permanent paths (no longer showing as Short-Term Plan 'STP') until at least May 2026.

Does anybody even know what on earth they are doing/planning at this point?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==

It's interesting that any mention of the Ormskirk-Hunts Cross timetable being "temporary" seems to have been scrubbed from Merseyrail's website.

Is there still an intention to do a full timetable recast at some point? As far as I'm aware Merseyrail is still on 507 timings. We were promised a speedup of services to take advantage of the better acceleration of the 777s, or has things like the slow door opening cancelled out any advantage?

It must still be a temporary timetable because having the Southport service come in and terminate on Platform 1 at LVC clear the train and then go into the siding at blocks the hunts cross train from entering the platform and usually delays it.

The reason why the Hunts Cross train always went to Southport is because northbound it has to use platform 2 and southbound it has to use platform 1

All this extra junction movement must have an impact on maintenance considering that this seems to be quite a long term "temporary" timetable?

 

[jamesst]

Does anybody even know what on earth they are doing/planning at this point?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==


It must still be a temporary timetable because having the Southport service come in and terminate on Platform 1 at LVC clear the train and then go into the siding at blocks the hunts cross train from entering the platform and usually delays it.

The reason why the Hunts Cross train always went to Southport is because northbound it has to use platform 2 and southbound it has to use platform 1

All this extra junction movement must have an impact on maintenance considering that this seems to be quite a long term "temporary" timetable?

The shunting from platform 1 to 2 via the reverser was previously done with the Ormskirk terminators, the only difference now is the Southport services run in that path and Ormskirks/Hunts Cross in the former Southport path.
Hunts Cross services can (&often do) use platform 2 at Liverpool Central, its just more operationally convenient to use 1.

 

[390112A]

It's interesting that any mention of the Ormskirk-Hunts Cross timetable being "temporary" seems to have been scrubbed from Merseyrail's website.

Is there still an intention to do a full timetable recast at some point? As far as I'm aware Merseyrail is still on 507 timings. We were promised a speedup of services to take advantage of the better acceleration of the 777s, or has things like the slow door opening cancelled out any advantage?

There is still an intention to recast the timetable in the future for 777 timings but do not know when that will be.

 

[karlbbb]

RTT has been updated now showing the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross / Southport - Liverpool Central remaining and now showing as permanent paths (no longer showing as Short-Term Plan 'STP') until at least May 2026.

Well this is extremely disappointing. If the intention is now to keep this as the new "normal", how much money has been wasted in training and lineside equipment for SDO at places like Cressington only for it to be given up on? It would certainly seem this is ME just giving up on 8 cars down to HNX.

As for the timetable adjustments to take advantage of the 777 acceleration - there is no advantage anymore. With drivers still taking as long as 10 seconds to release the doors at stations and the absolutely short-sighted decision to have the end coaches built with a single door, any gains from acceleration are wiped out. I daresay things are actually worse.

 

[Northerngirl]

How do they actually switch ends on the 8 cars at central, as far as im aware the reverse siding has no walking route

 

[WirralLine]

How do they actually switch ends on the 8 cars at central, as far as im aware the reverse siding has no walking route

Through the emergency nose end doors presumably.

 

[Skie]

As for the timetable adjustments to take advantage of the 777 acceleration - there is no advantage anymore. With drivers still taking as long as 10 seconds to release the doors at stations and the absolutely short-sighted decision to have the end coaches built with a single door, any gains from acceleration are wiped out. I daresay things are actually worse.

You mean like how every train arrives 1 to 2 minutes early at lots of stations and then has to sit around a while to keep to the proper departure time? Sometimes the doors still take a little longer to be released, but nearly every daily journey I have has longer dwell times purely to keep to time.

Can even see it happening today on RTT, Southport line in particular.

 

[prod_pep]

Consistently early running on the Southport line is no surprise as six minutes have gradually been added in recent years. Although overall there is a minimal improvement in running times from the new stock, late running in certain areas has become more common, for example through the loop.

 

[jamesst]

How do they actually switch ends on the 8 cars at central, as far as im aware the reverse siding has no walking route

Through the nose end doors

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2025 ==

Well this is extremely disappointing. If the intention is now to keep this as the new "normal", how much money has been wasted in training and lineside equipment for SDO at places like Cressington only for it to be given up on? It would certainly seem this is ME just giving up on 8 cars down to HNX.

As for the timetable adjustments to take advantage of the 777 acceleration - there is no advantage anymore. With drivers still taking as long as 10 seconds to release the doors at stations and the absolutely short-sighted decision to have the end coaches built with a single door, any gains from acceleration are wiped out. I daresay things are actually worse.

The plan is still for Southport- Hunts Cross to resume, no idea when though

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Nov 2025 ==

Consistently early running on the Southport line is no surprise as six minutes have gradually been added in recent years. Although overall there is a minimal improvement in running times from the new stock, late running in certain areas has become more common, for example through the loop.

The loop has been a punctuality nightmare for years regardless of the stock, 30 seconds at each station is totally inadequate

 

[Skie]

The loop has been a punctuality nightmare for years regardless of the stock, 30 seconds at each station is totally inadequate

Yep, ever since the door procedures were changed on the 507/508 they’ve never been able to get anywhere near 30 seconds.