Possible South Wales Metro Tram Extensions?

[The Pelican]

Moderator note - split from:

South Wales 'Metro' updates

I thought it would be worthwhile to start a discussion on the South Wales 'Metro'. Basically, this is the scheme to enhance transport links across south east Wales. One of the key issues that needs to be addressed is what form of transport will be used on the Cardiff Valley lines network -...

www.railforums.co.uk

Has any consideration been given to running tram tracks into the middle of Cardiff- either to or from the Callahagn Square direction along or parallel to St Mary Street, or down from Cathys in the north? Either of these, although duplicating the line through Queen Street station, might make trams more visible to the public- as the trams running into central Manchester made the Altrincham and Bury lines more popular, and as the on street diversion into Oldham made the Manchester-Oldham-Rochdale line more popular?

 

[oglord]

Or how about a tram line to the Celtic Manor? Extend the Crossrail idea from Cardiff Parkway to Newport and then along Chepstow Road.

 

[Daniel Boone]

Or how about a tram line to the Celtic Manor? Extend the Crossrail idea from Cardiff Parkway to Newport and then along Chepstow Road.

Any investment in Newport would be most welcome, apart from the Ebbw Vale line upgrades it's yet to get any major rail investment

Cardiff wise the International Sports village has always been crying out for a tram or BRT solution. There are valuable assets (ice arena, pool) down there that due to poor public transport I believe are not reaching their full potential. I'd be interested to hear other people's views on the area.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Cardiff wise the International Sports village has always been crying out for a tram or BRT solution. There are valuable assets (ice arena, pool) down there that due to poor public transport I believe are not reaching their full potential. I'd be interested to here other people's views on the area.

Unfortumately the trackbed of the Gragetown branch had been built over recently. However Corporation Road is as wide as it is because it originally housed tram lines so I'm guessing a tram connection is probably doable.

I'm not sure that the ISV has the critical mass to justify such a link at the moment but it's a kind of chicken and egg situation. Numerous housing projects have stalled because of poor connectivity so improved public transport might unlock some derelict brownfield sites.

 

[The Pelican]

A useful comparison might be Manchester opening various more light-raily lines, and then managing to construct the tram-like Trafford Park and Airport lines.

 

[Cardiff123]

An obvious candidate for tram extension is the Penarth line to Sully. There's going to be a huge housing development (500+ homes) at Upper Cosmeston Farm on Welsh Government owned land in the coming years, and the only public transport is a twice hourly bus, at irregular intervals, from Barry to Cardiff via Sully.
So instead everyone will drive and get funnelled through Penarth, which is already congested.
But Penarth or the Vale of Glamorgan don't seem to be on the radar for any Metro infrastructure at all, all the investment is in Cardiff & the Valleys

 

[The Pelican]

Mark Barry, who did a lot of work on developing the metro project for the valleys lines, proposes a "short extension further north in Merthyr along river corridor towards Cyfarthfa Castle". There is a link which contains that quote here, I think I remember seeing a more zoomed in diagram on one occasion. https://swalesmetroprof.blog/2018/06/04/making-metro-work-for-valleyscardiff/

 

[Merthyr Imp]

Mark Barry, who did a lot of work on developing the metro project for the valleys lines, proposes a "short extension further north in Merthyr along river corridor towards Cyfarthfa Castle".

It seems very glib to say that - it would be interesting to see some detail of how that could be done. I can only think of two ways:

1. The only way the existing line could be extended beyond the station would seem to be if an existing small shopping mall was demolished which would then allow street running to the castle.

2. A branch was constructed off the existing line on the site of the old Brandy Bridge Junction from where a line led to the original Merthyr station. This would possibly allow a line to be constructed, initially alongside the river then with street running to the castle. A plus could be the siting of the tram stop even closer to the bus station than the existing station which would presumably be closed.

But with all due respects to the merits of Cyfarthfa Castle I'm not sure it would be a sufficient draw to justify the expense of any extension. What might be better would be an extension through the shopping mall site to run over the old Merthyr Tydfil Electric Tramways route up the hill to Dowlais.

 

[tigermonstera]

Food for thought, but the Deposit Plan for the Cardiff Replacement LDP mentions:

A new Metro, in areas of the city such as Ely and Caerau, including bus rapid transit routes which can be delivered in the short term;

(pages 168-170).

 

[The Pelican]

Food for thought, but the Deposit Plan for the Cardiff Replacement LDP mentions:

(pages 168-170).

Yes, Skyscrapercity in past years was always full of arguments about how often BRTs actually get converted into trams- nonetheless, it's probably a good idea to have both systems working together.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

But with all due respects to the merits of Cyfarthfa Castle I'm not sure it would be a sufficient draw to justify the expense of any extension. What might be better would be an extension through the shopping mall site to run over the old Merthyr Tydfil Electric Tramways route up the hill to Dowlais.

That's true enough as it stands. There are plans though to redevelope and reunite Cyfarthfa Park with the ironworks site to create a much larger attraction.

https://www.cyfarthfafoundation.wales/reborn/

 

[Smwrff]

Not a tram-train extension, but a street tram running from ISV to Cathays Park via Central seems a good idea (with a few pinch points).

A nothern terminus - between the university buildings would be less than 100m from Cathays station. Then head west along College Road turning south along King Edward 7 Road - with a Cathays Park stop next to City Hall. Then crossing Boulevard de Nates with a stop at Grey Friars (for Cardiff Castle). Then need to squeeze along Working Street to The Hayes with a Hayes Stop near St Davids. Then along Mill Lane and across to Penarth Road (with a stop close to Interchange). Then under the railway bridge to connect to planned Central Station South tramstop (for Crossrail).

The line should then continue south west through the Central Quay development then joining west along Penarth Road (this section would need parking restictions and/or widening). Then turn south along Clive Street (already wide enough as previously used for trams) - then follow Ferry Road all the way to ISV.

It is always going to be difficult to thread a tram through existing city streets, but I believe this is viable and would be a very popular route - especially for tourists.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2025 ==

Not a tram-train extension, but a street tram running from ISV to Cathays Park via Central seems a good idea (with a few pinch points).

A nothern terminus - between the university buildings would be less than 100m from Cathays station. Then head west along College Road turning south along King Edward 7 Road - with a Cathays Park stop next to City Hall. Then crossing Boulevard de Nates with a stop at Grey Friars (for Cardiff Castle). Then need to squeeze along Working Street to The Hayes with a Hayes Stop near St Davids. Then along Mill Lane and across to Penarth Road (with a stop close to Interchange). Then under the railway bridge to connect to planned Central Station South tramstop (for Crossrail).

The line should then continue south west through the Central Quay development then joining west along Penarth Road (this section would need parking restictions and/or widening). Then turn south along Clive Street (already wide enough as previously used for trams) - then follow Ferry Road all the way to ISV.

It is always going to be difficult to thread a tram through existing city streets, but I believe this is viable and would be a very popular route - especially for tourists.

An alternative route through the City might be along St Mary Street

 

[anthony263]

Not a tram-train extension, but a street tram running from ISV to Cathays Park via Central seems a good idea (with a few pinch points).

A nothern terminus - between the university buildings would be less than 100m from Cathays station. Then head west along College Road turning south along King Edward 7 Road - with a Cathays Park stop next to City Hall. Then crossing Boulevard de Nates with a stop at Grey Friars (for Cardiff Castle). Then need to squeeze along Working Street to The Hayes with a Hayes Stop near St Davids. Then along Mill Lane and across to Penarth Road (with a stop close to Interchange). Then under the railway bridge to connect to planned Central Station South tramstop (for Crossrail).

The line should then continue south west through the Central Quay development then joining west along Penarth Road (this section would need parking restictions and/or widening). Then turn south along Clive Street (already wide enough as previously used for trams) - then follow Ferry Road all the way to ISV.

It is always going to be difficult to thread a tram through existing city streets, but I believe this is viable and would be a very popular route - especially for tourists.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2025 ==


An alternative route through the City might be along St Mary Street

Tfw did proposed an on street route from Cathays to central station down Castle Street but that was dropped during the early days of the metro. Certainly would have been a good idea to.relieve pressure at Queen Street

 

[generalnerd]

i do hope some further tram train expansion happens, simply because they already have the units and will have a bit of the trackage at some point

 

[anthony263]

i do hope some further tram train expansion happens, simply because they already have the units and will have a bit of the trackage at some point

Hirwaun will be a easy win tracks all in place

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Hirwaun will be a easy win tracks all in place

But in very poor condition. Upgrading to modern passenger standards would prbably involve replacing virtually everything.

 

[anthony263]

But in very poor condition. Upgrading to modern passenger standards would prbably involve replacing virtually everything.

Good thing will be if reopened for light rail it be easier to replace the level crossings

 

[MikePJ]

According to a chap from TfW that I met socially a few months ago, the Hirwaun extension is actively being planned for at the moment.

On the topic of Sully-Penarth - the old Penarth-Sully railway line is in the process of being turned into a cycle route (VoG council ran a planning application consultation on it over the summer) and funds have been allocated to build it from the Cardiff Capital Region transport plan, so I would expect that some of the demand for travel from new houses could be met by people cycling to Penarth station, as it's not that far and the route will be level and traffic-free.

 

[Cardiff123]

On the topic of Sully-Penarth - the old Penarth-Sully railway line is in the process of being turned into a cycle route (VoG council ran a planning application consultation on it over the summer) and funds have been allocated to build it from the Cardiff Capital Region transport plan, so I would expect that some of the demand for travel from new houses could be met by people cycling to Penarth station, as it's not that far and the route will be level and traffic-free.

Most of that route is already a cycle route - from the estate opposite Cosmeston to Penarth Station is a tarmaced, linear park known locally as the "railway walk".
Unless VoG Council also want to develop the trackbed of the old line beyond Cosmeston through Lavernock?

 

[MikePJ]

Most of that route is already a cycle route - from the estate opposite Cosmeston to Penarth Station is a tarmaced, linear park known locally as the "railway walk".
Unless VoG Council also want to develop the trackbed of the old line beyond Cosmeston through Lavernock?

Yes - sorry for not explaining that very well! They do indeed intend to develop the old line further - the cycle route will run along the old trackbed as far as where it meets Lavernock Road near "The Vineyard", just east of Sully. Then the path will continue along the roadside into Sully village. Details are here: https://www.valeofglamorgan.gov.uk/...-and-Safe-Routes-in-Communities-Projects.aspx and the planning decision is here: https://vogonline.planning-register.co.uk/Planning/Display/2025/00493/RG3

 

[Christian Schm]

So I’m sure I’ve proposals to extend the bay line to east Cardiff and then on the relief lines to Newport. But would they go just into the main station in Newport, or branch off before the Cardiff Road bridge, the along Cardiff Road, Kingsway & Queensway? There should be enough space for reserved tram tracks along most of that, and it would serve the city centre much better?

 

[Daniel Boone]

So I’m sure I’ve proposals to extend the bay line to east Cardiff and then on the relief lines to Newport. But would they go just into the main station in Newport, or branch off before the Cardiff Road bridge, the along Cardiff Road, Kingsway & Queensway? There should be enough space for reserved tram tracks along most of that, and it would serve the city centre much better?

I've seen proposals which have the line go as far as Cardiff East, others suggest it could go to Cardiff Parkway.

 

[tigermonstera]

TFW's 2023-2024 Annual Report does mention:

We’ve completed an outline business case and feasibility study with early design for rapid bus transit and tram-train extension between Cardiff and Newport.

But doesn't say whether this will involve street running outside of Cardiff.

The Cardiff Capital Region Regional Transport Plan also proposes a Newport-Caerphilly line to use street running in Newport:

Reconnection of Caerphilly with Newport using the Machen freight line and tram train services, the on- street tramway capability of which can be applied in Newport to avoid conflicts with the congested SWML and support regeneration in Newport

 

[Christian Schm]

Hmm, presumably that would leave the railway just west of the Cardiff Rd overbridge, drop down along Gaer Vale, obliterate the post office shack, and then along Cardiff Rd. That could work.

Alternatively from Bassaleg junction you could relatively easily get onto Bassaleg Rd, which should get you to the end of the cemetery. That’s where the old tram terminus was, so from there like in the olden days down Stow Hill?

 

[Smwrff]

I've seen proposals which have the line go as far as Cardiff East, others suggest it could go to Cardiff Parkway.

The initial plan for Crossrail is for it to terminate at Cardiff East (Newport Raod/Rover Way) - but with a longer term plan to extend it to Cardiff Parkway.

I dont think there is any plan to extend Crossrail beyond Parkway to Newport although there would be other SWML services connecting Parkway to Newport West and then Newport (Central).

 

[Last Hurrah]

With Electrification beyond Caerphilly to Rhymney near completion, it had me wondering, what next ?

A similar scheme of such grandeur is unlikely, but perhaps smaller infills, however aspirational they might seem

 

[Smwrff]

What do you mean by small infills?

The whole point of the intetmittent dlectrification was that you dont need to fill in the difficult bits - the bi-mode/ tri-mode train fills in the missing gap.

The next target must be to get NR/GBR to electrify Vale of Glamorgan lines and SWML to at least Bridgend and preferably Swansea.

 

[John R]

If you are looking specifically at electrification then I would have thought the Ebbw Vale line would be the most likely candidate in terms of a small scheme that could be funded by the Welsh Govt.

But whether that would take precedence over other infrastructure projects is debatable, when there are candidates such as a passing loop for Coryton or the Hirwaun extension.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Strategically - IMHO - wiring to Swansea ! - allowing some synergy with Bristol for example , as well as some chances of re-casting local services. There may be modest journey time savings also ........

 

[Cardiff123]

If you are looking specifically at electrification then I would have thought the Ebbw Vale line would be the most likely candidate in terms of a small scheme that could be funded by the Welsh Govt.

But whether that would take precedence over other infrastructure projects is debatable, when there are candidates such as a passing loop for Coryton or the Hirwaun extension.

"Funded by Welsh Government"
and what devolved budgets would WG take money out of to pay for an electrification scheme that is Westminster's responsibility?
Would health, education or local government see its budget cut?

For as long as NR in Wales is DfT's responsibility, it's Westminster's responsibility to fund rail infrastructure upgrades and projects in Wales. Which is why nothing gets funded aside from essential renewals.

The Core Valley Lines are different. The CVL are not just devolved, full ownership was transferred to Welsh Government with the associated funding to maintain it.