Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[LothianBusesPh]

1153 LX11 CWT Is covering service 1 currently passed Stenhouse cross heading towards clermiston

The bus is currently based at Central alongside 1150.

 

[Resuwen]

Taunting the passengers by giving them the benefits of a dual door vehicle which they don’t usually get to enjoy.

All the BZLs should have been specced this way.

If it’s good enough for Belfast it’s a shame Edinburgh is denied.

 

[UK Bus Spotter]

The bus is currently based at Central alongside 1150.

Ah thanks for that. Hopefully will catch it again and get it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==

Is 568 SA15 VUU at Lothian country for a spell. Suggests it done a short 74 round Bathgate before heading to Queensferry dead presumably for a 43

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is 568 SA15 VUU at Lothian country for a spell. Suggests it done a short 74 round Bathgate before heading to Queensferry dead presumably for a 43

Yes. It’s breakdown cover for 445 which failed on the A71 doing the N28 this morning. It’s on the school run that turns into a 43.

 

[NorthEastern]

Taunting the passengers by giving them the benefits of a dual door vehicle which they don’t usually get to enjoy.

All the BZLs should have been specced this way.

If it’s good enough for Belfast it’s a shame Edinburgh is denied.

Definitely

 

[VioletEclipse]

I have to travel between Falkirk and Livingston getting the McGills X38 to Winchburgh and changing onto the Lothian Country 72.

I am a little worried about the longevity of the 72 as there never seems to be many passengers on it.

It has never failed to turn up unlike the X38 and it's timekeeping is better.

In my experience the Broxburn to Livi section of the 72 is often packed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==

Taunting the passengers by giving them the benefits of a dual door vehicle which they don’t usually get to enjoy.

All the BZLs should have been specced this way.

If it’s good enough for Belfast it’s a shame Edinburgh is denied.

For the BZL DDs, lower deck capacity is more of an issue than with other batches, however I agree that dual doors really should be the standard again.

 

[Steve440]

In my experience the Broxburn to Livi section of the 72 is often packed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Nov 2025 ==


For the BZL DDs, lower deck capacity is more of an issue than with other batches, however I agree that dual doors really should be the standard again.

Dual doors should be standard in all major cities

 

[LothianBusesPh]

In my experience the Broxburn to Livi section of the 72 is often packed.

Daytime buses are busy, however in later hours (after 19:00) some quite literally have 1 passenger at a time.

 

[scatterkeir]

More dual-door buses would maximise the benefits of dual-door buses: as it is, the benefits are often reduced because they are waiting in a stack at a bus stop while a single-door bus in front of them unloads and then loads.

 

[NorthEastern]

More dual-door buses would maximise the benefits of dual-door buses: as it is, the benefits are often reduced because they are waiting in a stack at a bus stop while a single-door bus in front of them unloads and then loads.

This forum needs to start a petition to Lothian on this. People power!

 

[Lothianbus703]

This forum needs to start a petition to Lothian on this. People power!

Yeah all 15 contributors to the forum could really convince Lothian to convert around 700 buses to dual door!

 

[JKP]

Yeah all 15 contributors to the forum could really convince Lothian to convert around 700 buses to dual door!

A question. Are all bus stops served suitable for dual door operation? I am thinking about the layout of street furniture, raised kerbs etc. I suspect many in the city are but once outside then I’m sure that is not the case.

 

[Resuwen]

A question. Are all bus stops served suitable for dual door operation? I am thinking about the layout of street furniture, raised kerbs etc. I suspect many in the city are but once outside then I’m sure that is not the case.

They’ve run the XLBs and the ex Londons without problem.

And of course back in the 80s and 90s all Lothian vehicles were dual door as standard.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

They’ve run the XLBs and the ex Londons without problem.

This isn’t, strictly true on the XLB’s, but I think generally there’s an argument for them yes.

Stanley Road is the example that comes to mind. It’s almost impossible not to mount the kerb.

What I would say is times have changed as a result of COVID and the tram extension (with more to come) and I’m less sure we need more tri axle vehicles than back in 2019. The 26 doesn’t need them as the corridors have been balanced well by using the XLB’s on the 31, the extension of the 19 and also the speeding up of ECB routes to run limited stop.

You’re then left with the 3, 25 and 44 and to be honest the 44 is much the same as the 26. Is it busy? Sure, but ECB are the main operator on that side and at the west side it’s plugged in nicely with the 4 and 34. The 3 is busy but never full and the 25 has so many students I don’t see how the XLB’s would help over running extra buses? On the Gorgie corridor I’d have seen it as more of a priority to make the 1 deckers than using XLB’s on the 3 and 25.

It’s not that I think these are ‘bad’ ideas, but rather that I do think times have changed. Sure if they wanted to add them to those four routes I doubt anyone would moan about it, but is it really necessary? I’m not sure.

Going back to the point on dual doors. The issue specifically with the BZL’s is that the seating capacity would be otherwise woeful. There’s already a pretty poor amount of seats and adding a second door would fix one problem and create another.

 

[Avenger20]

With regards to the 44, I'm of the (surely unpopular) opinion that perhaps it is time that the route is split. There are constantly delays to the service resulting in two or three buses following one another by the time they get to Wallyford, I can only imagine it's the same at the Balerno end as well.

A long route is great for connectivity but woeful but reliability and the 44 has steadily been getting worse these past few years. I'm not sure what a reasonable suggestion could be but I do think a good network wide review of routes should take place in order to try and work out the most reliable version of the routes.

 

[oldman]

A question. Are all bus stops served suitable for dual door operation? I am thinking about the layout of street furniture, raised kerbs etc. I suspect many in the city are but once outside then I’m sure that is not the case.

There are stops in Comiston Road where railings near a school block the rear door, but a more common problem is drivers unable to stop parallel with the pavement leaving an awkward step down from the rear door on to the camber or into the gutter. I often see people asking to use the front door because of this.

 

[UK Bus Spotter]

794 SF75 VYY is out on the 19’s today

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

794 SF75 VYY is out on the 19’s today

This is normal for a Sunday now. The 19 was expected to get them on a Sunday.

Marine has two runs on the 25 on a Sunday. One of these is a BZL today. Going forward it is likely that both of these will be BZL’s on Sundays too.

 

[ScotRail158725]

You’re then left with the 3, 25 and 44 and to be honest the 44 is much the same as the 26. Is it busy? Sure, but ECB are the main operator on that side and at the west side it’s plugged in nicely with the 4 and 34. The 3 is busy but never full and the 25 has so many students I don’t see how the XLB’s would help over running extra buses? On the Gorgie corridor I’d have seen it as more of a priority to make the 1 deckers than using XLB’s on the 3 and 25.

I would argue the 3 definitely warrants them, its a busy route througout and ive advocated for a frequency increase back to 10 minutes ever since it was cut to 12 in 2021. The 44 and 25 could justify tri axles aswell but the case for them isnt as strong as the 3

 

[Lothianbus703]

I would argue the 3 definitely warrants them, its a busy route througout and ive advocated for a frequency increase back to 10 minutes ever since it was cut to 12 in 2021. The 44 and 25 could justify tri axles aswell but the case for them isnt as strong as the 3

26 could definitely justify tri axles, a capactiy increase from the current 79 seater Gemini 3's would help, even to E400 MMC's as the current capacity is not enough from my experience. The 3/25/44 use the 84 seater E400 MMC's and I can only speak for capacity on the 44 but I think it is adequate most of the time. BZL's would definitely be an unsuitable option for the 3/25/26/44 though given they only seat 64.
-
I would also like to remind people that although a large part of the fleet is 11.4/5m double deckers, the seating and standing capacity can range from as low as 73 with less than 10 standing on the 11 plate B9TL's to 84 seated on a MMC with the smaller single door ex Londons having 70 seats.

 

[zjsptgzxyspks]

I'd say routes 24,25,26,35 and 37 can be considered for XLBs.

The 25 is usually busier than the 3. Both routes justify running every 10 minutes as pre coronavirus.

The 37 is always busy anywhere between Crewe Toll to Cameron Toll.

The 26 can be extremely busy on weekends but most people just let go of the 19.

The 35 needs either a frequency upgrade or use XLBs since it is hardly coping with the load of tourists and university students.

The afternoon peak hour 24s from RIE often fail to clear the bus stop at Kings Buildings. They can be allocated XLBs or run duplicates at least to Federick st.

The 44 needs to be increased to every 10 minutes. The 44 has issues with bunching and time keeping, and it is the only bus on the Slateford - Balerno corridor. Ideally the 44 can bypass Daryl - Haymarket, use West Approach Rd instead.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

26 could definitely justify tri axles, a capactiy increase from the current 79 seater Gemini 3's would help, even to E400 MMC's as the current capacity is not enough from my experience. The 3/25/44 use the 84 seater E400 MMC's and I can only speak for capacity on the 44 but I think it is adequate most of the time. BZL's would definitely be an unsuitable option for the 3/25/26/44 though given they only seat 64.
-
I would also like to remind people that although a large part of the fleet is 11.4/5m double deckers, the seating and standing capacity can range from as low as 73 with less than 10 standing on the 11 plate B9TL's to 84 seated on a MMC with the smaller single door ex Londons having 70 seats.

The 26 isn’t that busy after Pinkie Road. This has been a bit of a problem since all of them started going to Seton Sands. Sure if you took my idea from the speculative thread and it went to Wallyford, it could probably work.

As for the 3. You’re probably in the scenario where you get one or the other, ie a frequency increase OR XLB’s, not both. The issue is, the 25 would have to match it owing to the combined service offered along Calder Road.

The idea with the 33 to help this corridor was stupid and it really just ought to go back to how it was before they mucked around with it to serve Sighthill.

The 44 is by far the least necessary of these options. It shares corridors at both ends with other services and at the east end the ECB routes are faster so I don’t really see the benefit of offering XLB’s on the slower option. The west corridor is slightly different, but again after you get to Kingsknowe is it that busy?

 

[Auld reekie]

With regards to the 44, I'm of the (surely unpopular) opinion that perhaps it is time that the route is split. There are constantly delays to the service resulting in two or three buses following one another by the time they get to Wallyford, I can only imagine it's the same at the Balerno end as well.

A long route is great for connectivity but woeful but reliability and the 44 has steadily been getting worse these past few years. I'm not sure what a reasonable suggestion could be but I do think a good network wide review of routes should take place in order to try and work out the most reliable version of the routes.

I totally agree with this.
Its exactly the same scenario at the Balerno end.

 

[InOban]

I totally agree with this.
Its exactly the same scenario at the Balerno end.

It's the same on ,the 30 by Fort Kinnaird

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

For those not already aware, that’s 1141-1153 officially up for sale now. All have been removed from service and that should be it for them.

Photo of the advert is attached. Description reads as follows:

Lothian Has 13 Volvo B9TL Wrightbus Gemini 2’s For Sale:

67 Lazzerini Pratico High back Seats (USBs fitted)
Extensive Midlife Refurbishment (2018)
Dual Door (Originally Ex-London)
Hanover LED Screens
Euro 6 (HJS System Fitted)
ZF Ecolife 6AP1403B Gearbox
MOTd
11 Plate (2011)

Price - £35,000 + Tyres + VAT

 

[computerSaysNo]

Do Lothian not run additional services to cope with all the school kids coming out in the evening? I had assumed they did, but I've been on a 24 to Royal Infirmary which filled to capacity around the Meadows and left people behind all the way through Marchmont. If this is an issue daily I'm surprised there isn't an extra few buses added.

 

[NorthClyde320]

After buying Eve's are 191-193 owned by Lothian or on a lease/finance company agreement?

 

[SilentWatcher]

Do Lothian not run additional services to cope with all the school kids coming out in the evening? I had assumed they did, but I've been on a 24 to Royal Infirmary which filled to capacity around the Meadows and left people behind all the way through Marchmont. If this is an issue daily I'm surprised there isn't an extra few buses added.

There are rush buses in the morning and afternoon on a variety of services to help cope with the added demands of schools and general commuters. However, I'm not aware if the 24 is one of those routes

 

[stevenedin]

For those not already aware, that’s 1141-1153 officially up for sale now. All have been removed from service and that should be it for them.

Photo of the advert is attached. Description reads as follows:

Lothian Has 13 Volvo B9TL Wrightbus Gemini 2’s For Sale:

67 Lazzerini Pratico High back Seats (USBs fitted)
Extensive Midlife Refurbishment (2018)
Dual Door (Originally Ex-London)
Hanover LED Screens
Euro 6 (HJS System Fitted)
ZF Ecolife 6AP1403B Gearbox
MOTd
11 Plate (2011)

Price - £35,000 + Tyres + VAT

Really nice buses for someone buying them. I hope that they keep the Edinburgh voice saying "Warning exit doors closing" on the buses when being sold to their new homes. Would be nice to have a bit of Edinburgh (and London) in their new home).

 

[scosutsut]

After buying Eve's are 191-193 owned by Lothian or on a lease/finance company agreement?

I don't know for certain, but their lack of repaint does seem to suggest they might not be part of a long term solution as they have (had?) the newer Solo that conceivably could have covered for repaints?