Russia invades Ukraine

[ainsworth74]

A drone (no deaths) and a full scale ship (deaths) are quite a different game.

Türkiye shot down a Russian Su-24 fighter bomber in 2015 and one of the pilots died as a result. No war between Türkiye and Russia as yet.

 

[Annetts key]

A drone (no deaths) and a full scale ship (deaths) are quite a different game.

Ukraine has sank multiple Russian ships, has Russia officially declared it's a war yet? Or does the Russian government still call the invasion of Ukraine a special military operation? And how many nuclear weapons (and I mean using nuclear explosives) has Russia used in this S.M.O. that is not going particularly well for them?

 

[najaB]

If a Russian ship did enter U.K. waters and was damaged or sank due to being attacked by our forces, you would hear a lot of hot air from Russia. But it would not start a war.

Which would be unlikely. At most (and this is also unlikely) it would be escorted to a UK port and the crew detained until the Russian ambassador made a sufficiently grovelling apology to the Foreign Secretary. And before anyone says that the attempt to escort it might escalate to an armed conflict, a notionally unarmed intelligence ship isn't going to start a fight with a couple of destroyers, a frigate and an attack submarine.

 

[uglymonkey]

They have been working on " rules of engagement" since before Nelsons time "shot across the bows " etc. so every maritime power is well rehearsed on how far they can "push it". Eg Russian submarines transit the channel with flag flying on the surface as per some maritime law.

 

[Cambrian359]

If it's not in UK waters then that would be a clear act of war and would effectively amount to a declaration of war between the UK and Russia, which would not be a good thing and, due to the risk of nuclear escalation, is not supported by the population as a whole.

This member of the population votes to sink it!

In all seriousness these incursions on land sea and air will keep happening until we do more than just summon the Russian ambassador each time!

A sunken ship might cause him to choke on his food in shock when he’s told we finally reacted and solve a lot of problems!

 

[Ted633]

This member of the population votes to sink it!
In all seriousness these incursions on land sea and air will keep happening until we do more than just summon the Russian ambassador each time!
A sunken ship might cause him to choke on his food in shock when he’s told we finally reacted and solve a lot of problems!

But it’s not an incursion if they‘re in international waters/air space. This nonsense has been going on since the start of the Cold War.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

But it’s not an incursion if they‘re in international waters/air space. This nonsense has been going on since the start of the Cold War.

It was strange how many Soviet fishing vessels could be found near strategic locations.

A standard joke was that a Russian spy ship had been caught illegally catching fish.

 

[Darandio]

But it’s not an incursion if they‘re in international waters/air space. This nonsense has been going on since the start of the Cold War.

Exactly, it's as old as time. We just try and remind the public now and then that our response matters.

 

[JamieL]

The right to freedom of passage does not apply if they target weapons as they did in this case.

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps we should kit a frigate out with big speakers and blast them with annoying music.

 

[52290]

Perhaps we should kit a frigate out with big speakers and blast them with annoying music.

I vote for Slade "Merry Xmas Everyone"!

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps we should kit a frigate out with big speakers and blast them with annoying music.

You joke (I think!) but I must admit that was something that occurred to me. Do something back to them that's annoying but cannot realistically be considered an attack but would have a dissuasive impact. Or if we're really feeling brave go and get some high power pumps and hoses and come alongside and start blasting them with water.

 

[35B]

But it’s not an incursion if they‘re in international waters/air space. This nonsense has been going on since the start of the Cold War.

Precisely. And having met Nimrod aircrew who flew operations that “never happened” over the Soviet fleet, I’m mindful that escalation works two ways.

Force may be the only language he understands, but the saying “never wrestle with pigs, as you get dirty and they like the muck” also applies.

 

[ainsworth74]

Force may be the only language he understands, but the saying “never wrestle with pigs, as you get dirty and they like the muck” also applies.

Absolutely (and I certainly don't think we should be sinking this ship) but there comes a point at which you've got no choice but to get down in the muck....

 

[najaB]

Absolutely (and I certainly don't think we should be sinking this ship) but there comes a point at which you've got no choice but to get down in the muck.

I guess it's time to find out just how quiet the Astute class really are.

"Get me a ping, Dave. One ping only please."

 

[Bletchleyite]

Absolutely (and I certainly don't think we should be sinking this ship) but there comes a point at which you've got no choice but to get down in the muck....

It does depressingly look like, unless something happens (e.g. Putin pops his clogs), that war with Russia within 5-10 years is unavoidable.

Trouble is, that won't have a good outcome for anybody.

 

[najaB]

It does depressingly look like, unless something happens (e.g. Putin pops his clogs), that war with Russia within 5-10 years is unavoidable.

Said pretty much everyone from 1945 to 1992.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It does depressingly look like, unless something happens (e.g. Putin pops his clogs), that war with Russia within 5-10 years is unavoidable.

Nah.

The weapons industry like you to think that, though. Justifies spending billions on bombs rather than starving kids.

We will continue with Russia's niggling "hybrid war", but they're not going to go all out. They don't have the motive and, even if they did, they don't have the capacity. Putin only went into Ukraine because he thought it'd be a short one-and-done capitulation.

 

[d9009alycidon]

I vote for Slade "Merry Xmas Everyone"!

Well Mariah Carey would definitely be a war crime!

 

[edwin_m]

I vote for Slade "Merry Xmas Everyone"!

I wondered about the Russian anti-Putin singers group whose name the forum probably won't let me repeat.

You joke (I think!) but I must admit that was something that occurred to me.

Yes it was mainly a joke, although America did something similar when they were trying to get Noriega of Panama to give himself up.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Nice to see the US deal is fair and balanced and doesn't include loads of concessions for only one side.

Ukraine you give up the land Russia has captured, some they haven't captured, your weapons and your army, oh and you can't host foreign troops. And Russia will promise never to invade again.

Great deal Donald!

 

[brad465]

Perhaps we should kit a frigate out with big speakers and blast them with annoying music.

"Party like a Russian" by Robbie Williams

 

[Annetts key]

Perhaps we should kit a frigate out with big speakers and blast them with annoying music.

Maybe music from Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake?

 

[35B]

Maybe music from Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake?

I think Shostakovich might have written more apt music. Perhaps some of the settings by Yevgeny Yevtushenko from his Babi Yar symphony might be apt...

 

[uglymonkey]

How about Stings " the Russians love their children too" or whatever it's called.

 

[52290]

I think Shostakovich might have written more apt music. Perhaps some of the settings by Yevgeny Yevtushenko from his Babi Yar symphony might be apt...

I have an old Melodya LP of some music Shostakovich wrote for a cartoon film called "The Priest and his servant Blockhead" which might be appropriate in this case.

 

[OhNoAPacer]

The problem with using proper music is the intended victims might enjoy that music. Maybe a better option is to play on a loop a recording of a not particularly naturally gifted child learning to play the violin.

 

[35B]

The problem with using proper music is the intended victims might enjoy that music. Maybe a better option is to play on a loop a recording of a not particularly naturally gifted child learning to play the violin.

Prior references to the Geneva Conventions apply. Besides, I'm not sure that a Russian crew would enjoy Babu Yar - or the message that using it would send

 

[brad465]

What we're currently seeing is Russia's last stand at convincing Trump to back their plans. With the Epstein files nailed on for release, they will fear Trump is done for and hope they can get a favourable deal before those files are released.

 

[Pete_uk]

Europe can help end the bloodshed in Ukraine and bring down Putin.

The leaders are to scared.